Livery Yard Rules

[Str0ppyMare]

My best friend and her husband have set up a livery yard, they spent years wishing and saving to finally get were they are today. They started with a small site, built a huge arena, and stables, they now bought more land and built a X country course and have over 20 acres of grazing land!

Well I was up yesterday to ride my friends irish draught mare, there was two people already in the arena doing flatwork and they were in their without hats on. My friend did say to them that they should have their hats on, but they blanked her.

Next they went out the gate and headed towards the road (still without hats), now they are going for their licence when the new law comes out, and im worried for her that she could lose it cause of these inconsiderate people.

They say that you only need a hat when jumping, but I know this isnt true.

They are riding 17hh tb, so its not like its calm cobs.

Does anyone know were I can find how it would affect them if the licence was inplace, and one of them was to come off. Would it all come back to haunt them?

Also saw a lovely 13.2hh cob, she is in foal and due in february (lol not looking to buy), she was badly treated but her nature is great, I spend loads of time with her in the stable, walking her about and grooming her to make her happier.

Was wondering what height she might finally end up at?

 

[horsegirl]

what height, the cob or the foal?

Also if these riders are adults (and not having lessons) I am sure it is their responsibilty to decide whether they wear hats. She can put up a sign saying hats must be worn but unless someone is there to police it all the time not much else she can do.

 

[Rambo]

If it's her yard, she dictates the rules. If they don't adhere to the rules, she can kick them off the yard...

 

[AmyMay]

I'm not sure about the license issue - but if your friends as part of their yard rules state that jockeys must wear hard hats - then end of story.

I would be more worried about my insurance liability.

 

[susan_w]

About the rules - your friend (the owner) can enforce whatever rules she wants to - it's her yard.

If the liveries don't like it then they can vote with their feet, can't they.

Our yard has a rule, that you must always ride with a hat, no trainers (loads of other rules, but these are the two that no-one would break).

If they want to then take their hats off when they leave the yard, then that is entirely up to them - it's their lives!!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

The YO can make any reasonable rule that he/she wants & I would submit that the wearing of hats to ride at his premises is certainly a reasonable rule. If this is pointed out to the liverys by the YO & they still don't adhere to the rule then he can tell them to leave. Your friend must be more forceful when dealing with these people, if she isn't they will walk all over her.
There may be similar rules the YO has to enforce due to insurance requirements.i.e.not ore that 3 in the menage at any one time, again for safety.
As I've already said your friend must deal firmly with these liverys, it is her yard & they adhere to her rules or they leave.

 

[airedale]

If you go for BHS Approval then it is madatory that all riders were hats up to current standard whilst riding on the premises.

so if they want to hack out without hats then they would have to walk their horses off the premises before mounting - or ride out with hats on and carry them round off their heads during the hack and put them back on as they come in the gate (don't laugh - seen it - rider - hatless - on horse on busy road - with hat with chinstrap done up hanging from one arm which was sort of holding the reins whilst holding and talking into mobile phone in other hand and on a nutty looking TB type to boot !!!)

 

[Str0ppyMare]

Thanks everyone, I just dread that it will come back and bite them in the bum if one comes off

 

[OWLIE185]

You are quite right to be concerned at the manner in which your friends are running this yard.

As you no doubt read three weeks ago in Horse and Hounds a Livery yards insurers have agreed to pay out £2.1 Million Pounds (plus £300,000 legal fees) to a rider that was kicked when bringing in her horse from the field.

It is important that your friends make it quite clear to all liveries and also get them to sign a document stating that riding hats to an approved British Standard Number are worn whenever horses are ridden or handled including lunging, loading on to a lorry/trailer or brought in from the field while on their premises.

Your friends must get a contract drawn up which all their liveries or people visiting the yard who intend handling the horses sign as without this they could end up loosing their livery yard if sued.

This is a very serious issue and as their friend you are right to bring it to their immediate attention.

Well done!

 

[Judie]

I'm sorry but livery yards will find themselves out of business if they force their liveries to wear hard hats whilst handling etc their own horses - yes put up the signs and get the liveries to sign a disclaimer saying they take full resposnibilities if they don't adhere to the advice given on hard hats but to kick liveries out because they don't is going too far IMO. I would not be forced to wear a hard hat whilst grooming my own horse but happy to sign disclaimer...

 

[airedale]

On this issue I think the correct thing to do is to await the official guidance which is currently being prepared jointly by the BHS and the ABRS. I contacted the BHS for their advice following the 2.1 million claim result and was told that an official guidance letter would be sent out to all BHS approved livery yards and ABRS/BHS riding schools shortly following expert insurance/legal advice.

My personal view is that hat wearing beyond lunging/loading and riding is 'reactive' to this court case. If we were being 'proactive' then would we also insist on body protectors and toe-tector boots plus full face guards ?????

I'll implement whatever the BHS advises.

I already ban anyone from handling horses in inappropriate footwear or riding in inappropriate footwear/shorts/etc. Nor is anyone allowed to jump their horse unless a firstaider is on the premises at the time.

 

[Sarah_Jane]

I work for the Local Authority and will implement the Livery Yard licensing when it comes in. The final details of the requirements are not yet finalised. However there is likelyt to be a requirement for a contract between yard owner and livery where YO can set down rules - if they don't like em get out.

Going back to the orgincal question if a livery was handlin or riding their own horse without a hat this should not come back on the YO although I would get a disclaimer written. If they are dealing with horses belonging to the YO then they should wear hats certainly for riding.

 

[Str0ppyMare]

On saturday my friend got kicked in the face by one of the horses, thankfully she is fine apart from some bruising, but still. She was wearing a hat when it happened.

These ones with horses on livery there are RIDING without hats, there was 3 horses in the arena and they were riding all over the show and no hats on, then they headed out onto the road!!!

 

[airedale]

If the yard was BHS approved then your friend would be breaking the approvals contract with the BHS by allowing them to ride on the premises without approved, current standard, hard hats with chin straps done up.

It is a requirement for all BHS approved yards to have formal livery contracts with certain clauses in them, plus the rest down to the yard details. One of the clauses is to do with hard hats being used when riding, another is to do with notice period and another is to do with the fact that the contract is valid under UK law.

The whole point of hte 2.1 million case is that the horse was a livery, being led in from the field by its owner and another liveyr horse in the field kicked the person leading their own horse, causing brain damage. Despite both horses being livery horses the Yard OWNER was held responsible and her insurers had to pay out the 2.1 million damages for an ACCIDENT.

Riding without a hat is hardly an 'accident' anymore - it would be viewed as downright bl***y stupid and the YO therefore would be definitely held liable under the current legal precedents that have been set recently - includign the Mihrvahedy (sp?) case.

So my view is they ride their horses in hats, with chin straps done up - or they leave the property. From the description it sounds a yard with good facilities - so they may not want to leave. They are also setting a bad example to any child liveries on the yard.

 

[Stella]

I think putting up a clear sign that the yard requires riders to wear a hat whilst riding demonstrates that it is a yard rule. I believe having the rule is the main thing. A YO could not be expected to constantly police it and would not therefore be liable in the case of an accident (until this is tested in court and precidence is made!). My understanding of the recent case with the child who was kicked in the head, is that the YO had been told that the culprit horse had been threatening and that it was difficult to remove the complainants' horse from the field, but did nothing to make the situation safer. In those circumstances, the court found her negligent.

 

[Seahorse]

At my yard, it is written into the terms and conditions that everybody must wear a hat when mounted.
There are also signs up in the tack room and in the school.
(Not that I would ride without a hat anyway

)

 

[Skhosu]

I always ride with a hat, but would have a problem with anything else in terms of riding gear being stipulated. One persons view of 'inappropriate' wear is another persons view of comfortable.
I would say your friend needs to be tougher (not from any legal POV) simply because otherwise the liveries will all walk over her!

 

[allijudd]

you are all probably going to hate me...but my livery contract states that an approved hat must be worn at all times when mounted...any body breaks these rules then they are asked to leave...nobody breaks the rules..(i think they are all afraid of me!)

 

[Skhosu]

No problems with the hat thing, just most other rules.
E.g- in a summer day I might hop on in shorts, or pj's if feeling lazy and have a hooley (on pony) with a hat and have been known to ride barefoot, in trainers and in wellies (what I usually ride at home in as my bots leak...) and wouldd never go to a yard that was strict on what exactly you wore.
The hat thing is correct though.

 

[allijudd]

bugger me...you can ride in what you want..but you must wear a hat...(oh and on the jumpcross course you have to wear a body protector....)

 

[eahotson]

If I was a livery yard owner these days I would be incrediblystrict. Not out of choice but fear of litigation.