Livery yard trouble.

Boulty

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Random thought but could you buy a haynet / haynets of appropriate size, label with name tags & ask that he is fed only from them & that they must be full? Maybe that could act as more of a visual aid for them? Alternatively could you come to an arrangement where you fill his nets for the week & leave them in a specific place for the staff to then feed him with? Re the hard feed could you discuss providing your own & then provided you have enough containers do the same with that? (I used to make up lots of individual bags of feeds if I ever went away & had someone else looking after my horse). Not ideal when you're paying for full livery but maybe a way you could stay?
 

Abi90

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I had this on a yard. I changed the haynets, I asked nicely, I went down and did it for them, I asked more directly... none of it worked. So I moved. That winter was the poorest my horse has ever looked and I had loads of issues. This winter, on new yard, no issues at all.
 

HashRouge

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I'd talk to the YO again and, as others have said, try providing your own haynets and see if that improves things. If not, I'd buy enough haynets for the week, fill them myself, and leave them in a neat pile somewhere for the grooms to put in. If they don't like the mess or the space being taken up, then they should do it properly themselves! I would find this extremely annoying as you have been assured by the YO that his feed requirements would be met and it doesn't sound like you are asking for anything ridiculous.
 

Chianti

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I’ve mentioned it on a previous thread but I think we have very strange relationships on livery yards.

They are a business that provides a service to clients.
I can’t think of any other situation where a business could significantly fail to meet a clients expectations and still have them paying up every month with barely a murmur.

No children myself but can’t imagine many parents would happy to learn their child hadn’t been fed at nursery!

Getting on with your YO is so crucial but it shouldn’t leave us in fear of demanding minimum standards of care and that contractual obligations are met, eg if your livery agreement states ad-lib hay, there is absolutely no excuse for a hungry horse.

I second this. I can't imagine going into a restaurant, ordering a high class steak and chips, being given a burger and oven chips and still being billed for the steak! Livery is a service industry but many owners seem to need a dictionary. I've been on a few yards over the years, some have been great and some I've left very quickly because it was obvious it wasn't going to be good and the owner/ manager had no interest in listening to the livery's concerns. OP I would put your concerns in writing to the owner - in a nice way - express your concerns and ask if you can have a meeting to discuss how they can be resolved. Make it clear in the meeting that you're giving a time frame for the matter to be resolved. Don't mention leaving as you may get the 'well, if you don't like it you can always go' response and then you might find yourself having to leave before you're ready to. At least your YO sounds reasonable. Someone I know had a less than amenable owner. She'd noticed one of the staff being very rough with a horse and approached the owner to let him know. The yard was very busy so she quietly asked if she could have a word with him. He started waving his arms about and shouted, ' OK everyone, got a livery owner making a fuss here!' She was mortified and walked off and left the yard soon after.
 

HorsesRule2009

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I have only skimmed through this thread so sorry if I repeat anything.
I completely understand your frustration I myself am a groom and take huge pride in what I do and would feel terrible if someone had to ask more than once for something, but I also know how hard it is to get good reliable staff that take notice of what is being done and can think for themselves without someone constantly having to remind/suggest to them.
I agree about perhaps providing your own xl net/s might work.
But also may be ask the yard owner if you could put up a small white board outside your stable with emergency contact details for you your vet and farrier with space at the bottom for 'notes' and could then we please ensure always has hay or even go as far as saying on vets advice horse most have constant access to hay.
This would perhaps act as a visual reminder to staff but also help if message hasn't been passed on or staff change?

Hope you work something out
 

SO1

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I expect that they may not be used to catering for this type of horse. If everyone else is cobby and needs to be dieted and low maintenance perhaps they didn't realise the extra costs with providing 2 feeds a day and adlib hay.

I think you need to try and suggest solutions to help the staff remember and make it easier for them. A whiteboard on his door, larger haynets. If he is the only horse having 2 meals a day perhaps it is a bit of a hassle for them. If it is taking them more time and costing them more than they thought maybe you need to negotiate a different price. Or you need to look at yards that cater for competition horses that need more food.

I have the opposite problem with a pony that needs to be constantly dieted so is on soaked hay and grazing muzzle. He can't have ad lib or big feeds. The feeds are very generous at the yard but they do weigh the hay and hay amounts are based on the size, the horses get weighed and a nutritionist comes. Nobody is under weight even though they are not on ad lib hay.
 

andytiger

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Hi sorry to hear you have been having troubles it’s always so frustrating, I would be starting to look for else where. YO isn’t doing her job i’m afraid the deal breaker for me would have been finding out he had only been having one hard feed a day.
I’m afraid she is just giving you lip service saying it’s being done. and then ,it’s very easy to blame members of staff but she is the puppet master pulling the strings.
you pay a lot of money for livery and you expect reasonable requests to be acted upon.
did you sign a contract??,she did say to you all his feeding requirements would be met.
I would ask her directly again,explain to her that your worried he’s loosing weight, and ask her that you have spoken before why wasn’t it done.
or you could ask to go on part livery and buy your own hay and hard feed.
I hope you manage to get it sorted.
 

shamrock2021

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I would probably leave if I was you. I would worry what happens when you’re not there. You don’t need the stress and worry is your horse getting fed or not.
 

Northern Hare

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Would it be possible to go on part livery? As in they do all the care side and you just provide your own feed and haylage? I’m like you, I can’t stand to see horses go for hours on end without something to eat ? seems a shame to leave if everything else is good ?

I was going to suggest the same - get the feed and haylage taken off your livery bill, have your own bins, feed and nets, and a hanging scales to weigh the haylage, and a black board outside his stable with the precise weights / feeds on.

Over the years I think I was on about eight full / part livery yards (moving with work), and to a certain extent there is always a compromise somewhere, but it sounds as if you can get the feed / haylage issues fixed, the other big-ticket must-haves like arenas etc are worth making it work.

If things don’t improve though, look to move.

Ps. When you speak to YM you could say that you’ve been alarmed at how much further the girth is going up - sometimes something tangible like that can help get the message home....
 

Auslander

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Id be tempted to ask if you can supply/fill your own haynets. I know it isn't ideal, as you are paying for that to be done - but for your own peace of mind, it might help. Even just saying that's what you want to do might embarrass them into giving the horse enough!

I give my lot shed loads of hay/haylage - but still get the odd livery who thinks their horse should have it's own bodyweight in forage at all times (Prime example here - 14hh cob, carrying a bit more weight than I think she should- has roughly 15kg of hay in the stable, and always has hay left in her net in the morning. Owner weigh tapes her weekly and uses an app to track her weight, and gives me a weekly update on her weight compared to the same time last year! I'm forever finding extra nets in her stable!)
 

proseccoandponies

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Unfortunately part livery/supplying own food isn't an option as I asked about this when I moved on as I said I'd prefer to buy my own feed as I like to know what my horse is being fed and be in control of it. The only type of livery there is full with all included.
 

Fred66

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Per Northern Hare
Make a point that your horse doesn’t “do well” especially through the winter and that you are concerned about how much condition he is losing. That you appreciate that she said she would pass the message on about increasing his haylage but that it still appears he is being underfed. Can she please reassure you that this will be rectified immediately as whilst you think the yard is great and he has settled his welfare is priority and if doesn’t start to improve you will have no choice but to look for an alternative
 

Wheresthehoofpick

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I think you need to up your assertiveness.

Remember you have a contract of care with the YO. You clearly discussed feeding with them
And were told your horse would have adequate feed.

So... I would put it in writing.

Dear YO There seems to be some confusion. You made it clear that feed and sufficient foraged would be included etc etc.

My horse needs two feeds per day and ? Haynets. He is losing weight. Please can you make it clear to your staff that this is what is required. Would you like me to provide haynets etc
 

LegOn

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It is literally so strange - imagine your mobile phone company stopped giving you your data or call allowance cause they didnt feel like it or didnt tell their staff!! We wouldnt put up with it! Its a very strange relationship we have with livery - we want them to be nice to our horse so our fear of upsetting people or being assertive and it affecting your horses care is a real worry and risk!

I think you've gotten brilliant suggestions here - having just left a large yard because of these similar problems, I seen how others dealt with it that werent going to move! (Alot more reasons I left like the turnout which wasnt going to be fixed!)

- write it on your horses stable door, stick it up there - HORSE MUST GET FULL HAY NET AND EVENING FEED. And buy them the haynet you want filled.
- get friendly with the staff and start telling them yourself what you want and how much! This is risky cause the YO can get peed off with it but if you do it a nice way, it can work. Loiter around your stable at haynet time and be all friendly like 'oh no he isnt on a diet, he needs as much as he can get into him!'
- Be VERY upfront and VERY consistent in texting/messaging the YO, unfortunately the squeeky wheel gets the oil! Be nice about it but I would do a couple of weeks of 'just a reminder, he needs to get his evening feed/he needs to get his haynet/he needs more hay today, he had a big workout today! & for extra feed, add in the usual 'let me know if there is any extra cost!' and the 'I really appreciate all your help, you guys have been SO helpful!' Be sure to include, 'I'm sorry I'm such a worry wort but I dont want him losing anymore weight, I would really appreciate your help'

Only then would I consider moving - some bigger yards have a high turnover of staff and if you dont constantly remind them, the message gets lost!
 

proseccoandponies

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Thanks everyone for your advice and understanding in the situation.
I have had an honest chat with the yard owner, and made a few comments to staff which I think have brought to their attention that my horse is not to be left without food. I have figured out that it actually seems to be certain staff members which don't give him enough so I actually think it boils down to the fact they weren't aware how much he should have. Fingers crossed, the situation seems to have improved!
I will keep monitoring the situation and not let it become a problem again, and if it does I will be finding somewhere else as everyone is aware now how much he should have so there is no excuses. I picked this yard because of the owners experience, and it is a smaller full livery yard rather than the huge ones with loads of different staff members, where requests and specific requirements get lost in translation.
 

thefarsideofthefield

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It's still a bit worrying though that on a small yard , run by ' an experienced owner ' , that there appears to be ongoing confusion over what your horse is/isn't fed . Why weren't the staff aware of his requirements ? How do staff members currently decide what they do/don't feed your horse ? Does each staff member just make their own judgement call ? That's bad practice .
Every yard I've ever worked on has had a master board in the feed room where each horses feed/quantities/feeds per day/nets weight etc is detailed and updated as required , and whoever is doing feeds/hay is expected to consult that chart each day and follow that information . If there isn't a list then there should be . If staff aren't following it then they need to be told that they must , as part of there job responsibilities . It's not complicated - in fact I've got one on my own feed room wall so that , in an emergency , anyone else would know what to feed my ponies .
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Thanks everyone for your advice and understanding in the situation.
I have had an honest chat with the yard owner, and made a few comments to staff which I think have brought to their attention that my horse is not to be left without food. I have figured out that it actually seems to be certain staff members which don't give him enough so I actually think it boils down to the fact they weren't aware how much he should have. Fingers crossed, the situation seems to have improved!
I will keep monitoring the situation and not let it become a problem again, and if it does I will be finding somewhere else as everyone is aware now how much he should have so there is no excuses. I picked this yard because of the owners experience, and it is a smaller full livery yard rather than the huge ones with loads of different staff members, where requests and specific requirements get lost in translation.
I hope this is now sorted and your horse is now at least adequately fed..

However, if the YO is experienced, she should jolly well have been picking up the lack of fodder on late/last check. The member of staff doing 1st feeds should also have been noticing empty net.

Hope you can move forwards now.
 

proseccoandponies

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This seems to be an on-going problem with full livery yards in my experience, hey try to save money and cut corners by not feeding your horse adequate forage. I get that it is a difficult business to make money from, but you should not promise liveries things you can't delivery, or cut corners where horses welfare is concerned. As I have said I will monitor the situation closely
 

proseccoandponies

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It's still a bit worrying though that on a small yard , run by ' an experienced owner ' , that there appears to be ongoing confusion over what your horse is/isn't fed . Why weren't the staff aware of his requirements ? How do staff members currently decide what they do/don't feed your horse ? Does each staff member just make their own judgement call ? That's bad practice .
Every yard I've ever worked on has had a master board in the feed room where each horses feed/quantities/feeds per day/nets weight etc is detailed and updated as required , and whoever is doing feeds/hay is expected to consult that chart each day and follow that information . If there isn't a list then there should be . If staff aren't following it then they need to be told that they must , as part of there job responsibilities . It's not complicated - in fact I've got one on my own feed room wall so that , in an emergency , anyone else would know what to feed my ponies .

I completely agree, this is why I have been so concerned. There is a board with all the feeds on but nothing to do with haylage on there, I was quite annoyed though to discover he was only getting one feed despite me specifically saying he needed two. I think a lot of the problem stems down to my horse being in a lot more work than the other livery's, and a different type of horse that needs more food in the winter than the good doers. The yard owners horses seem to have an adequate amount of haylage as they also are in more work, like my horse.
We do seem to have made a step in the right direction so fingers crossed they are more aware of his needs now.
 
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