livery yards

[dizzydolly]

Hi everyone,

Would just like to pick your brains about something, please!

I posted a while ago about livery yards, whats important etc. Now i was just wondering if anyone could give any info on the rates involved? If it is a private set up (ie. not a BHS licensed yard for example, and not registered anywhere) do you still have to pay rates? What are these and are there any circumstances when you don't? Talking to a few people it sounds quite expensive to run a yard, so was just trying to get as much info as possible.

Also, what about insurance? All the yards i have been at do not have it, they just request the individual horses to be insured by their owners. Is this acceptable, for DIY, part and full livery?

Thank you very much in advance!

Any relevant info most appreciated

 

[ClareMc]

If you are operating any sort of business I expect you would have to pay Business Rates, have a look on your local Council website for more information.

On insurance - individuals would be expected to have insurance for their own horse, tack and equipment but the YO would probably need to have Public Liability Insurance and insurance for buildings and employers liability insurance if anyone is employed. Employers Liability is required by law.

 

[airedale]

You will pay business rates on every stable past the first 3 stables (if your yard is attached to a dwelling as the first 3 stables are considered 'personal use'). YOu also pay business rates on other facilities, exercise arenas, indoor schools, barns, etc. if the storage stuff cannot be shown to be for agricultrual purposes.

Your business rates are reassessed every 5 years (next one is 2010) and you pay a fixed xx pence in teh £ of the rateable value - currently about 42p in the £ round me.

You get £2500 off the rateable value if you are a stud, breeding or rearing horses up to the age of 3. We must thank the TB Breeders Assn for negotiating this concession in 1990.

Insurance should be mandatory for all yards, minimum is Public Liability. Without this insurance, if you are claimed against, you could literally be bankrupt. Read up on the Mirvahedy (sp?) case where the horses got out of a well fenced field and caused an injury traffic accident. The horse owners were deemed liable, and if those had been livery clients then the livery yard would have become liable for the fencing and taken the hit. So if you aren't insured then you run a risk. Another example, what if someone getting hay down from a stack, DIYer, for their horse falls and breaks their back - you would become personally liable.....!!!

You also pay extra business rates if you have horseswalker, floodlights on the school, solarium, tack room, rug room. Everythign is rateable.

You can see the business rates paid by your postcode, etc on the VOA website.

 

[Tempi]

Hiya - hows things? I know that you will need insurance for the general buildings etc and each individual owner has to have insurance for their horse/tack etc.

Im still at Chris's wont be leaving now! Its nice and quiet down there atm as all the kids are on school holidays so have all left by the time i get down there to ride!! No doubt we will all be battling for the lights come winter time tho..........

 

[Vix1978]

Echo the previous posts. Public liability and employees liability are essential, but it is also prudent to ensure that all liveries are covered by at least third party insurance. Some insurance companies will give up to a 25% discount if you are BHS approved, so that is something that might be worth looking into.
As for rates - it seems as though just about everything is rateable. There are the stables, grazing, arena, storage, tack room, feed room etc. If a building is deemed to be for agricultural use then it is exempt (ie. you store a tractor there or hay you have cut off your own fields). however, the moment you start storing stock which you have bought in, the storage space is rateable.
It will be worth having an informal chat with your local VOA office, as they will give you more of a clearer idea of what you should be paying. Currently, business rates are 43.3p in the rateable value pound.
My personal opinion is that this way of business rating severely disadvantages the equestrian industry as it is a one size fits all approach. It should be on turnover or business size NOT property size (gets off soapbox.......)

 

[airedale]

yep - indoor schools are rated the same as 'light industrial' factory use - very much not fair.

they are even aware of the difference in the quality of arena surfaces and will rate you less ifyou have merely sand and more if you have rubber.

other facilities are also rated, e.g. XC course jumps in the fields.

the fundamental problem comes down to the fact that this is the only country in the EU where the horse is not an agricultural animal - Even Northern Ireland has 'gone it alone' and de-rated horses so they can compete with Eire - the horse IS an agricultural animal in N. I.

 

[vicijp]

Just a bit of extra advice.
Contest your business rates, I did and got them halved from £1000 to £500 a year. Thats for 6 stables, my feed/tack room is one huge room, electric and water.
Some clever b#gger tried reporting me for not paying rates on a horsewalker and outdoor school, they couldnt have been that clever - because I dont have either!

 

[airedale]

contesting is a good thing providing you realise 2 things.

1. Contesting means a visit from the rating officer to your property. If you have nothing to hide and have been paying your rates on everything you have then go for it. If you have put stuff in since your last assessment (which is every 5 years - next one in 2009 to decide the rates from 2010 onwards for 5 years) then watch out as your rates could go up.

2. If you appeal and win then the reduction will only apply to the year in which the appeal was won. It cannot be backdated. So if you think you have grounds for appeal then do not delay. Any overpayment in previous Gov. financial years cannot be recovered.

If you know of yards similar to yours - i.e in facilities, no. of stables, etc. then find out their postcode and goto the VOA website and use their search facility to find out the rateable value for the other yard and compare it with your own yard. The postcode entry on the VOA website is case specific - i.e. the postcode letters have to be entered in capitals, not lowercase

 

[dieseldog]

When we first moved in to our place the Rateable Value was £10k per year, so we had to pay £5Kish. We got a lot of help from the BHS even though we weren't a riding shcool in getting the rates reduced. Silly things like the stable roofs were 6 inches lower than they should have been all reduced it. It is stupid, you are charged the exact same rates an office and you'll never make the same amount of income of it.

This year our insurance was £2k with a £1k excess, just public liability and buildings. You have to pay out the first grand on any claim!! That was the main reason why we closed the yard.

There are a lot of easier ways to make money than running a yard, you would probably make more cash working at Macdonalds.