Loading advice.

clevelandbay

clevelandbay

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Hi all, I've not been around on here for a while and was hoping for some inspiration/help/advice from you lovely people.

We've had my daughter's horse for just under a year now - she's a sports horse, fantastic at SJ, nice to handle, loving mare.

BUT she has always been a bit of a bad loader and has got steadily worse. She will load fine in the trailer when we're practicing but can really play up on days we're going out, and even worse when we're coming back from an event. She's not a bad traveller, arrives calm happy relaxed and does her job well and calmly whilst she's there, but she's got "stuck" with the going in the trailer part.

I've tried everything that I can think of, and am currently unable to take her out anywhere because of the issue. I was wondering if anyone knew of anyone who may be able to give us some specific help in the West Yorks area (possibly NH?).

Sorry for the long post!
 
We had exactly the same with my horse. At first he would load to go out, but not come back, which isn't funny when your'e 50 miles from home, as you have probably experienced. Then he stopped loading altogether. We had Richard Maxwell out and after a lot of time and patience he loads every time.
 
I would recommend Richard Maxwell as well. If you can get him either to come out to you or go to one of his demonstrations he would be able to sort your issues out. Try using groundwork to build up trust and confidence. Never force the issue or make it a bad experience. Once the horse has loaded the first time then you need to keep practcing loading until he becomes confident with it. At the end of the day you will need time and patience to sort this issue out.
 
Thanks guys. I've heard good things about Richard Maxwell but the cost is a tad prohibitive! Maybe a demo could be a good idea.

The lunge line method is not for her! The more hassle she gets from behind the worse she is. It all feels a bit overwhelming at the moment, which is why i was hoping for some practical help from someone local.
 
I would recommned his books as well for good reading and guidance. The first one I think is called unlocking your horses potential and not sure of the title of the second one. I think if you google Richard Maxwell you will find his web address
 
Hi Cleveland bay,

I can totally sympathise. My mare has had a few loading problems in the past (ran out backwards once at a fun ride and refused to go into a small lorry once), but normally goes in to the trailer fairly easily and quickly. I've just recently bought a trailer (was very excited, as finally have transport!), and she really played up! I think I was nervous, and she probably picked up on it. She's good at doing that :/

Anyway, I've just bought Kelly Marks Leading and Loading from eBay for £2.63 - its got to be worth a try I thought. She suggests using a training halter like a dually (which I already have) and taking the partitions out. The book is quite small and easy to read, and less that the price of some well known horsey mags! Just thought it might be worth you reading it.

Also, I have used an IHRA before and she was very patient, so if things don't improve I will call her out. Maybe you could see if there is an IHRA in your area? I know a lot of people on here shoot down the whole IH way of things, but the kindness and patience that they bring could be a solution for you.

HTH
 
clevelandbay said:
Thanks guys. I've heard good things about Richard Maxwell but the cost is a tad prohibitive!
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you can always turn your horses loading training into a demo to cover costs a bit ie sell tickets to people at the yard and surrounding areas so they pay to see your horse trained. its a good idea to help out with the cost but to get individual attention on your horse from Richard Maxwell.

i have the same loading issues with my ISH and its really frustrating as i travel everywhere on my own and she is always worse coming home!! all i do is practice as much as possible and always stay calm and never force the issue. i have also invested in a 'be nice' headcollar which is only used if need be but can be a godsend!!
 
Damien Midgley is very good with horses being difficult to load. He is based in Sherburn in Elmet. If you google him, you should be able to find him. Best of luck - nothing more frustrating than a bad loader!
 
kirstyl said:
Damien Midgley is very good with horses being difficult to load. He is based in Sherburn in Elmet. If you google him, you should be able to find him. Best of luck - nothing more frustrating than a bad loader!
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Thanks Kirstyl. Do you know of anyone who's used Damien specifically for loading?
 
I have exactly the same probs with my horse, it's so frustrating isn't it! He isn't frightened at all, travels nicely, stands on trailer, will load himself (literally) when we're not actually going anywhere. The minute he senses even the slightest bit of nervousness from me, he plants himself and that's it. He then only goes on once he's decided he wants to. Can't use anything from behind because he just bucks or kicks out.

I had a Kelly Marks RA out about 18 months ago which really helped (though we had other issues then too) and I've spoken to my local one today to arrange a session for April (was living in a different part of the country when I first had an RA out), see if we can iron it out.

I mentioned him being worse away from home, as you say your mare is, and she said that's usually because the horse is tired, having been worked, and has already been through one trailer journey to get to wherever you are, so just throws the towel in. I'm actually hoping to meet this particular RA at a friend's yard, where I know he's particularly bad to load from, and try to work through it there.

Check the Intelligent Horsemanship website, there is a list of RAs on there and you'll be able to find your local one. Where are you based?
 
I have to say that if they are not frightened, but are just being stubborn I can't really be doing with the "pat it and pony nut brigade". If you ask them to go in they should, saying no is not an option in my book. Maybe I have just been lucky but all my horses load really well. My mare used to play up out of attitude not fright. She would plant at the bottom of the ramp and say no. So we set aside a day and was determined that even if it took all day she would go in. A bridle, lunge line and a refusal to accept no as an answer means that she now leaps in whenever she sees a ramp. Have to be careful though, as if I lead her near any ramp she will go in whether hers or not!! And no I did not beat the **** out of her but I did make sure she knew who was boss.
 
I more than understand - it took four hours to load my boy and it took his previous owner 3 hours.

My advice is to take it slowly. Start by driving to areas where you can hack back to if need be and don't rush the horse. You could also save the horse's dinner for the journey back so it will act as more of a treat!

I have a pressure halter and it makes no difference to my boy, nor the 'lunge line' method - he snapped 3. I'm currently taking it slowly and aiming to build his confidence. I've only had him 7 weeks and he's 15 yrs young so it will be a long journey ahead!
 
Can you enlighten us a bit more Ditchjumper?

I'm just starting out on my "loading issues" journey. I was thinking about going down the kindness and patience route (pat it and pony nuts I think you said), but equally agree with some of your comments - she is very stubborn and sometimes she is just taking the pee me thinks !

So how do I show her who's the leader, and make her want to go in the bl**dy thing?
 
Buy a Richard Maxwell pressure halter. I did, you get a demo DVD with it. I watched it twice, did 40 mins groundwork with it, and my mare walked straight in. She would previously do everything she possibly could to avoid going in.

No need for the man himself ;) Just the DVD, halter, persistence and common sense.
 
jules34 said:
Can you enlighten us a bit more Ditchjumper?

I'm just starting out on my "loading issues" journey. I was thinking about going down the kindness and patience route (pat it and pony nuts I think you said), but equally agree with some of your comments - she is very stubborn and sometimes she is just taking the pee me thinks !

So how do I show her who's the leader, and make her want to go in the bl**dy thing?
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Have you ever seen the IHRAs work? They are definitely not "pats and pony nuts"!
 
So how do I show her who's the leader, and make her want to go in the bl**dy thing?[/QUOTE]

Well I must admit that is what I did. But I did know that she was not frightened and was simply being a cow. If yours is frightened then that is different. She was also the type of mare that if she "won" over anything she would remember, so quite simply I never let her win and she is fine. However I think that is true of all horses...we are the leader they do as they are told. There is nothing worse than horses that won't do this, that and the other depends who handles them I guess. You can't beat a horse off a gypo/didi. They are always well mannered as they are handled as soon as their feet touch the ground and are tied up as foals.

Anyway I put on bridle, with lunge line over top of head and attached to bit. Walked up ramp asked her to follow. When she planted I continued up and put lunge line over the bar. She planted, I pulled but when she pulled back did not let her go backwards and just kept tension on lunge line. Depending on your horse (and only you know it) there is no problem in giving it a couple of cracks and be brave!! Be firm and confident and expect them to load. When they do, take them out and put them straight back in. The biggest problem people have is approaching the problem thinking "oh it won't load". Instead be positive...today we ARE getting Madam in the trailer/lorry.

Don't know why, but generally can get most to load and I don't beat them up but will sort them out if necessary. The knack is knowing the difference between those who are stubborn and those who are frightened.
 
She's def not frightened. I've realised that most of the times we've been somewhere it's been with a friend, who has more often than not been loaded first. So she's happy to go in when there's one already in.

I think I just need to get on with it... I'm stressing about it and building it up in my head... I don't think smacking her with a whip will help tbh.. she is very, very strong (and knows it) and she will p*ss off with me if I smacked her with a whip. Lunge line round the bum worked very well, but even tho I've been told I can do this on my own don't fancy trying much!
 
well i have to say your horses have summed you up. you are all soft touches that will stroke their coats. get real! in this world. they have to load there and back. whre is the alpha member? oh yes your horse!! NO NO NO. make it load make it travel. make it behave. the horse has 20 to 22 hrs to do what it likes. is it wrong to expect it to behave for 2 hours? NO
 
ofcourseyoucan said:
well i have to say your horses have summed you up. you are all soft touches that will stroke their coats. get real! in this world. they have to load there and back. whre is the alpha member? oh yes your horse!! NO NO NO. make it load make it travel. make it behave. the horse has 20 to 22 hrs to do what it likes. is it wrong to expect it to behave for 2 hours? NO
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So why don't you tell us HOW you would make it go on? It's all well and good belittling others for how they do it but it means nothing when you can only say "make it load". Offer some constructive advice to those of us who you think are clearly misguided?

I'm not being facetious... how would you make a big, strong and stubborn horse load when it doesn't want to? How would you deal with a horse that would take your head off if you put a lunge line around its backside or cracked it with a lunge whip (and I've seen a few of those!)? I've never in my life had a horse which wouldn't load - I was told my previous horse wouldn't load in a trailer, yet bar saying no the first time, I never had a problem with her. Sometimes what you've always done just doesn't work and you have to try other things.
 
use a chiffney open trailer right up at front if you have time walk on and off if they mess about yank chiffney walk on round the trailer then be very possative and walk on, be strong they are p-s---g you about I dont agree with paying out for RM try this also try taking the partitions out and cross tying use full breast bar at front. if they try to rear push them back then walk on round the trailer be calm, good luck let us know how you get on.
 
I sell a bit of equipment called Solo Harness which is designed to help with the type of problem you describe. It gives you a lot more control of the horse without having to have anyone around their back ends, which is what makes a lot of them nervous. It has worked well on horses who are upset by the lunge-line method. Have a look at www.soloequestrian.com for more info and YouTube 'horse loading harness' for a video of it on my (ex-!)problem loader. I'm planning to bring out a cheaper, self-assembly version of the harness over the next few weeks.
 
its taken a good few years but my boy now walks straight up, this is after 3 hours of loading, throwing himself backwards of the trailer, vets - sedating (its was getting dark and a long way from home) I always found that the more people who helped, the worse he was - it was game. I bought a dually halter, attached to a lunge line - his backward rearing was pretty sharp! But I also started unloading backwards of the trailer - i'd tried everything else, so i though why not! He was much more comfortable unloading backwards. I dont use titbits - he doesnt eat even if I did. Never put a line behind him - makes him worse. I kept my cool, no eye contact, praise when he came forward, use of the dually when he went backwards. I think he has now figured that the game is boring and he might as well just behave:) It is a nightmare, but just keep at it. Good luck
 
As the OH of someone who's mare has loading issues and the person who gets to sit around / assist / quietly fume, I have to say it is a most frustrating and demoralising problem for the owners. Advice like 'just take control and make it go in' is not helpful and unless you can give a clear method that has worked then it is pointless posting.

My OH has taken an almost unridable project horse, that had been abused by a previous owner and turned her back into a fun loving pony who will go anywhere and do anything. If that does not show control and commitment, I don't know what does. The loading issue is the last obstacle to overcome and at present it is two steps forward one step (sometime three) back.

The only advice I can offer is stick with it, patience and persistence work, but it can be slow going.
 
i have a horse that is a bad/non loader, for nearly two years i have tried everything to get him to load apart from beating him, i wont let that happen to him.

I tried feeding in trailer, using lunge line round bum, using "be nice" halter, using home made "solo" harness etc

each "method" worked once or twice then never again, the most sucess i had was with the be nice halter but it was never what i would say was a nice situation, and i couldnt load on my own as he wouldnt stand in the trailer and could not be tied until bum bar was up, he was still reluctant to load, it could vary from 10mins to 2hrs before he would go in, this was over a period of 6 months.

In my opinon i truly thought he was a stubborn git, he would just stand there on the ramp, he wouldnt sweat up or fret, and having seen him on very rare occasion walking straight in i really did think he was taking the piss.

A friend put me in touch with her friend who practises parelli and she offered to help, what she showed me was amazing, the first time she worked with him we didnt go near the trailer, the next time we had the trailer there and she established that my horses issue is confidence, he isnt confident to load, he isnt confident to stand in the trailer for any given time. No amount of "making" him load builds confidence, he had to do that himself, he had to work out for himself that the trailer is a "safe" place to be and that nobody would pressure him physically or with time restraints.

Using the games, approach and retreat and reading his reaction i now have a horse that self loads, we still have a long way to go i havent been on an outing yet to see what he will be like on the way home but to go from not loading full stop to happily walking into the trailer whilst i stand on the ground next to the ramp is unbelievable, i didnt think we would ever get to that stage.
 
hunteress said:
use a chiffney open trailer right up at front if you have time walk on and off if they mess about yank chiffney walk on round the trailer then be very possative and walk on, be strong they are p-s---g you about I dont agree with paying out for RM try this also try taking the partitions out and cross tying use full breast bar at front. if they try to rear push them back then walk on round the trailer be calm, good luck let us know how you get on.
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I had to get her to hospital once for an Op (had only had her 8 weeks at this point) and I hired someone to take her for me. They were professional horse movers and normally moved very expensive racehorses around. When she p*ssed around for them they put the chiffney on her straight away and she went straight in. I know this worked, but it just seems a bit harsh... I hate the blinkin things too... Have thought about the single breast bar idea too. Am going to take partitions out at w/e and have another go :)
 
I cant recommend Damien as ive not used him for loading but hers a great instructor.

If you want a NH instructor to help you with the loading issues thats in W Yorks then I can highly recommend a lady called Lisa Bruin - i had her out to help me with one of my mares that was an awful traveller and loader. She worked wonders on this mare and ive had no problems since. Plus as she was local to me if I had a problem away from home, I called her to see if shed come out to help.
PM me if you want more details
 
Thanks for all the advice, seems like several others are having similar problems!

Thanks for all the suggestions of names of people who may be able to help, I will ring around a few and see who I "gel" with.

It's a tricky thing, I don't consider myself to be a "soft" owner and I expect my horses to follow my leadership and in just about everything they both do, but until you've faced a problem, it's difficult to know the right way to deal with it. It's unbelievably frustrating (as I'm sure those of you who've experienced similar will empathise with). If she seemed frightened I could understand it but she's not. She'll fall asleep at the entrance to the ramp if we let her. Any pressure from the front and she pulls back and rears, any pressure/hassle from behind and she pulls back and rears. I honestly can't see the pressure/release method working with her.

Can anyone tell me how a chiffney works? I've never actually seen one used but it looks like a wicked piece of kit! I honestly think that the horse has a blockage though and if she can just get past the whole messing around/not loading thing confidently a few times, then we'll be away.
 
Coffee_Bean said:
Buy a Richard Maxwell pressure halter. I did, you get a demo DVD with it. I watched it twice, did 40 mins groundwork with it, and my mare walked straight in. She would previously do everything she possibly could to avoid going in.

No need for the man himself ;) Just the DVD, halter, persistence and common sense.
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Totally agree, my mare was a nightmare when I brought her, and the more you chased her from behind the worse she was, she will now load in my lorry with about 30 seconds hesitation, she has to make it know she would rather not go!!! However my lorry was out of action so had to load her into a trailer and she had a complete paddy and I got her in within 30 mins which I was really pleased with as she had been on box rest.

The most important thing is to stay calm and never look at them!!!

Good luck
 
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