loading problems, can anyone recommend someone to help?

[EllieBeast]

Hi, I have a 5yo appy x tb mare who I have owned since she was a yearling.
I have an ifor Williams 505 trailer.
The horse always loaded fine up until Feb last year when I travelled her to the forest with her field mate and the other mare was aggressive to her on the way There. My mare ended up with bruises and cuts to her face.
It then took us 5hours to load my mare to get her home, we eventually had to take the other horse back and remove all partitions (replacing with full length breast and breach bars.) It still took a further hour once the partitions were out. Pretty stressful by all accounts!!
She has since been very hit and miss about loading. Sometimes she loads within 30seconds, other times (like today....) it can take over an hour. She does always go on in the end, I have never given up in that sense. I do also sporadically take the trailer up and practice loading without actually going anywhere.

She is not at all stroppy or aggressive about it. She will place both front feet on the rramp and then plant. There is no rearing, barging or kicking involved.
Once she is on board she is totally calm, has never sweated up whilst travelling and happily munches her haylage for the whole journey, never rushes off at the other end and is a pleasure to take out. I always travel her alone now with no partitions.
Her reaction to anyone or anything going behind her is to just reverse off completely. She does respond to a food bribe but obviously not well enough!!
In july I had a team of natural horsemanship professionals to come out to help. They were very nice people but their methods really didn't suit my horse. She was very wary of one of them, and the whole session ended with a horse who had pressure sores on her face from the rope halter, was terrified of standing on the box and bolted off at great speed squashing it's handler and falling to her knees injuring herself in the process. These people came very highly recommended and I know their methods have worked very well in the past for others but clearly not for mine.
It took me a LOT of hours to get her happy on the box again, just me and her. And like I have mentioned sometimes she walks on in no time but she is shaping up to be really quite a nice horse and I'm desperate to be able to get her out and about more.
My next step is to borrow a 510 trailer and see if the extra space helps- again with partitions taken out. I will be doing this next weekend but I need another plan incase that doesn't work. Please don't suggest a lorry as I really don't have the money to change my setup that much, plus I would need to take another driving test. I can't see a 3.5t being any different and the only time I have tried her on one of those she didn't go in at all. Plus I can't afford one!!
I have tried every trick in the book with this horse, I am not a novice and have always managed to help others with tricky loaders in the past!! she has a real stubborn streak at times and is very intelligent which doesn't help!!
Does anyone have any recommendations for someone who may be able to help me? I'm very wary of making the situation worse again like last time!! I am really hoping that a bigger box will help but am open to suggestions. This really is zapping the fun out of it for me at the moment!!!
Sorry for the epic post but I didn't want to drip feed information !!

 

[cundlegreen]

She needs to move her feet when asked. There are various NH videos out there which show the handler getting the horse moving away until it "frees up" and goes where asked. I read a very good tip by mark Rashid where you put a plastic bag on a long cane, and rattle it when your horse plants. THE MINUTE the horse moves a foot forward, you stop and reward verbally. At some stage he suggested that you take the horse right away from the pressure of loading, then brought it back and progress from there. Any step forward to be rewarded. I've used this with success with a very stubborn older horse who had got into the mindset of planting. I personally have loaded lots of awkward horses by attaching a lunge line to the headcollar (I've never used a pressure halter, never needed to), passing it around the body and then holding it as a loop in my right hand, lead rope in my left. If they move forwards to the pressure, then I take off the tension. Mind you, you have to be pretty strong to hold them! Hope that helps.

 

[J1993]

Sounds to me like you have tried most of the ideas I would have tried. It seems like the key for your horse would be consistency. Going at it and at it until she is perfect at it. Although I don't believe in once the horse is on, bringing it on and off and on and off so many times they get bored! Maybe just every day for a few weeks she has her evening feed and net on the trailer for 10 mins. With all the doors etc shut as if she is going somewhere. That's the only other thing I can think of.

 

[Nakipa]

Your horse sounds just like my mare who was very hit and miss to load and we could spend hours trying. If anyone walked behind her then forget it. It would make her worse. I spent hours/days/weeks practicing in and out with front ramps opened and closed, no patitions, some partitions at an angle, and so on and so forth.

I have a 510 which has split rear doors which can be a ramp or doors and one day I opened the doors and thought I would try her loading with them. The hop up is really big (I think) but she was more than happy to hop into it. Never once has she refused to go in. She has hesitated but with a small amount of constant pressure on her headcollar she will hop in with no problem at all. The old days of trying for an hour to load have gone.

I have no idea why she is happy to go in with the step up but I have put the ramp down and tried again with that and we were back to square one.

I live in France and step up loading is very common here and I have always said that my horses would never do that but I have had to eat my words.

 

[Leg_end]

Where are you based?

I used Tarrsteps (Google Tarrsteps services) for my loading issues. Fixed and has been brilliant ever since. I'd highly recommend her.

 

[D66]

Ive sent you a pm.

 

[EllieBeast]

Thanks guys, definitely some things to try there, leg_end I'm based in Suffolk.
Digger66 I haven't received anything?
I like that idea cundlegreen, with the lunge line. I'm no weakling so could be worth a go!
Thanks guys I really appreciate the time you are taking to reply!

 

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

I'd try and change the trailer for one with doors instead of a ramp - mine is a pain with ramps but hops in happily with a step-up.
Obviously try it out before selling up etc but she will probably be happier as you're removing the chance for an argument; the horse is in the trailer before they've realised what has happened!

There are some Ifors with doors, Bateson do boston doors on all their trailers as an extra option, Fautras offer it, as do Cheval Liberte.

 

[cundlegreen]

Thanks guys, definitely some things to try there, leg_end I'm based in Suffolk.
Digger66 I haven't received anything?
I like that idea cundlegreen, with the lunge line. I'm no weakling so could be worth a go!
Thanks guys I really appreciate the time you are taking to reply!

Just realised that you are in Suffolk like me. If you ever fancy a hand, get in touch.

 

[EllieBeast]

The Boston doors down sound like an idea, I have no idea where it would find one to try though. Will definitely look into that!
Oh brilliant, thanks cundlegreen. I will have a go at your lunge line method and see how we get on. May well need to call upon your services!!
Thanks again guys!

 

[Fuzzypuff]

Boston door trailer: http://tallyhotrailers.co.uk/portfolio-item/fautras-provan-plus/ I had a Fautras Provan and loved it (was very lucky to get mine 2nd hand from someone I knew for much less than this though).

I have to say though my horse improved a lot moving from a trailer to 3.5t box, not sure if he prefers the extra space or the ride (backwards vs forwards), or just that it is more inviting an area to walk into from the wide side ramp vs the narrow back of a trailer. It might be worth trying a trailer with a side ramp too?

 

[unicornystar]

Dear OP I could have written this post myself a few months ago.

My chap would rear and evade getting near ramp, he's a big boy and most things didnt work, if we did get him on with food EVENTUALLY the minute we put breach bar up he would reverse out and smash it down!

I invested in a dually halter, not rope one which he hated and fought a lot more.

He hates my friends brand new Ifor Williams, with a partition in or with partition out, it seems to be the flooring that is the issue and the space. He was loading fine in my old trailer, then tried him on friends trailer with his friend, for a ten minute journey he was all over the place and arrived soaked!

The ribbed flooring once they have poo;d or wee;d even with straw in is extremely slippy.

I have come to the conclusion that with no partition and different floor (hardwood with soft rubber matting on it) he can spread his legs and grip, he is absolutely happy as a bean to go on his own trailer now.

I have an old scabby looking rice trailer which is perfectly sound. We took partition out, installed new ifor williams breastbar and breach bar full width.

Within weeks he was loading beautifully having done some short trips and blow me going on between classes! It is now his safe haven and he's happy to load on this particular trailer anytime.

Michael Peace came out to him before i had him and there were still issues when I bought him.......................

Dually halter does not work for everyone, and my other tactic was not to look back at him, sounds stupid but I always used to turn round, giving him a nice que to stop! I'm not saying it worked overnight but within days he was going on!!!

Now he knows he cannot win the battle of tug of war....life is easier, I dont have to leave 2 hours to load.....load out of a stable etc etc

Not saying this will work but hopefully may give you hope!

 

[EllieBeast]

Hi unicorn, thanks for taking the time to Reply.
Once on Board and the bar is up she is totally fine. Never has she sweated up or struggled to stand whilst travelling. With her it purely seems to be a loading issue. I do have a dually for her but it didn't seem to have much effect. I will have another go with this though, maybe I didn't work with her on the ground with it for long enough before I started with the loading.
It's definitely a case of getting her tto respect me enough to do as she is told! Like I say the travelling itself could not be easier, I now plan to spend this week on lots of groundwork before trying with the larger trailer at the weekend.
Thanks for the link fuzzypuff, I really need to see if I can find someone local who has one who would let me try her in it before I bite the bullet. Definitely something to consider though thankyou.