Loan Advice

[JangleProof]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and I'm looking for some advice regarding a Full loan agreement.

Last year I started to part loan a horse from a charity, she was skin and bones, hadn't been ridden in at least a year, unwormed, unvaccinated, not shod and couldn't even canter in the arena. I've now got her healthy and happy and we're at the point we can start competing (They didn't provide any help with shoeing/vaccinating/exercising at all, whilst she was being part loaned I even had to pay for turnout on days that weren't mine or she didn't go out) Early this year they were in debt to the yard owner and offered me her on full loan for a fee (about 500). I refused, as I didn't have the time or that kind of money. They eventually made up the money to leave the yard and said i could have her as he wasn't going with them. I signed a 'Loan Agreement' with no mention of the fee, or any time limit on how long this loan agreement would last for. I also should mention they didn't leave me the passport, only a copy of half of it. (I admit i was naïve and should have asked for the passport then but I didn't realise the importance or the legalities of keeping the passport with the horse).

They've now come on asking for this money, saying I only signed a 'Loan with view to permanent loan' agreement and I have agreed to paying this money. When I am asking what the fee is for the only answer I get is that it's for 'paperwork'. I understand most charities offer a rehoming fee, and i would be happy to pay for that,but that is usually including up to date vaccinations etc. and it is a 'rehoming' fee not just a loan. I've spent a lot of money getting her from the state she was in at the beginning to where she is now and I feel it is unfair to be threatened to have the horse taken off me for not paying it immediately, I will also add the new loan document that I'm paying for is no different than the original i have already signed.

I've offered to adopt and buy this horse but apparently this is also not an option.

The thing that is concerning me the most is that they are only just telling me her passport is not even in their name. (Which they also want to charge me £30 to change over) when they have had her for at least 2 years. I worry that they don't even have it.

Any advice on where I stand or what I can do to avoid losing her would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[sportsmansB]

Are you a BHS member? Their helpline might be able to give you advice

 

[teddypops]

Sounds a bit dodgy to me, but I did pay a rehoming fee when i got a pony on loan from a rescue centre and that didn’t cover anything like vaccinations. I paid for all that myself. Although it is called a rehoming fee, it is still just a loan, I don’t own the pony. If there is nothing in the contract you signed about paying the money, you haven’t agreed to it so I don’t see how they can make you. However if you don’t pay it, they can always take their horse back. To me it sounds like they think you are an easy way to make money, I would tell them to have the horse back. Good luck!

 

[JangleProof]

Are you a BHS member? Their helpline might be able to give you advice

I'm not a member but I've just dropped them an email now to see if they can suggest anything. Thanks

Sounds a bit dodgy to me, but I did pay a rehoming fee when i got a pony on loan from a rescue centre and that didn’t cover anything like vaccinations. I paid for all that myself. Although it is called a rehoming fee, it is still just a loan, I don’t own the pony. If there is nothing in the contract you signed about paying the money, you haven’t agreed to it so I don’t see how they can make you. However if you don’t pay it, they can always take their horse back. To me it sounds like they think you are an easy way to make money, I would tell them to have the horse back. Good luck!

Definitely agree they think i'm an easy way to make money! It's disgusting really. I wouldn't mind paying a fee if I knew they'd never try and get more out of me! The problem is, I love this horse more than anything and the thought of her going back to them makes me feel sick. Can I ask how much you paid for yours?

 

[meleeka]

You have a signed loan agreement? Presumably it doesn’t mention money? What does it say about their rights to take the horse back?

 

[JangleProof]

You have a signed loan agreement? Presumably it doesn’t mention money? What does it say about their rights to take the horse back?

I have, yes - It states they can repossess the horse if in their opinion the terms of the agreement are not being adhered to. (no mention of money or a permanent loan fee in the agreement - just the standard welfare of the horse, grazing/veterinary care/insurance etc.)

 

[meleeka]

How much are they asking and is it something you’d be able to pay? You could offer them what you think is reasonable (taking into account the amount you’ve spent) and ask that they draw up something confirming that no further fees are payable. You might also point out that it is their legal duty to have the horse passport details amended. I think for you can get some legal advice it would really help you decide what to do.

 

[JangleProof]

How much are they asking and is it something you’d be able to pay? You could offer them what you think is reasonable (taking into account the amount you’ve spent) and ask that they draw up something confirming that no further fees are payable. You might also point out that it is their legal duty to have the horse passport details amended. I think for you can get some legal advice it would really help you decide what to do.

Its £460 - I could afford to pay that but it wouldn't be ideal. I've already spoken to them about that, how when she was in their care (for 2 years) she didn't receive any vaccinations so I had to start them again (hence the need for the passport). It's cost near enough £200 to have the vet out to restart them and their response was that I'd been overcharged. I definitely think getting the passport sorted is the most important thing first and then I can look at the legalities of the agreements.

 

[JangleProof]

Just to add as well, they've told me that if I hadn't part loaned her first and taken her straight on full loan from their old yard they would have paid for feet/teeth/vac/back etc.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Last year I started to part loan a horse from a charity, she was skin and bones, hadn't been ridden in at least a year, unwormed, unvaccinated, not shod and couldn't even canter in the arena

How long had the charity had this mare in their care before you started to part loan her?

 

[JangleProof]

How long had the charity had this mare in their care before you started to part loan her?

At least 2 years before me i think, they've always been a bit shady with the details.

 

[Tiddlypom]

So presumably it’s not a reputable mainstream charity if it allowed a horse to get into or remain in that state whilst in their care.

I think you need professional advice on this situation, it’s a bit of a mess.

 

[AmyMay]

I’m guessing this is an un-registered charity? Based in the UK or over the water?

I’d be tempted to call their bluff, and offer to buy the horse for the amount they are demanding. If they refuse, end the loan.....

 

[joosie]

Doesn't sound like a legit charity to me, sorry, it feels like you have been scammed tbh.

 

[JangleProof]

It's a registered 'Legitimate' UK charity. Not a big name outside of the north though I don't think.

 

[teddypops]

I'm not a member but I've just dropped them an email now to see if they can suggest anything. Thanks



Definitely agree they think i'm an easy way to make money! It's disgusting really. I wouldn't mind paying a fee if I knew they'd never try and get more out of me! The problem is, I love this horse more than anything and the thought of her going back to them makes me feel sick. Can I ask how much you paid for yours?

I think it was £150 but it was about 13 years ago

 

[JangleProof]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions - I'm going to push them for the passport to be sorted out as it's the most important thing, and i'll look into some professional advice on the loan agreements/the charity itself.

 

[AmyMay]

It's a registered 'Legitimate' UK charity. Not a big name outside of the north though I don't think.

Would love to know who it is if you fancied pming me??

 

[joosie]

Yes I would love to know too! None of what you've said about this place is what I'd expect from a reputable, registered charity!

 

[teddypops]

You will need the passport for vet to update with vaccination records. And the passport should always be with the horse. Hope you get it sorted!

 

[Trouper]

You say this is a "legitimate" UK charity. Does it have an official charity number which is registered with the Charity Commission? If not then, in addition to the legal advice with others here have suggested, you could use the leverage of reporting to the Charity Commission on the way they are operating. Legally you should have had the passport and their other antics could not in any be described as best practice! No-one wants to put the boot in to a charity that is trying to help horses but your description of her condition while in their care does not suggest that they are even doing that.