Loan gone wrong :(

H

HollyJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 December 2010
Messages
78
Location
Stoke
Visit site
Hi - i posted a while ago about a mare my OH and i took on loan. We had her a few weeks on 'permanent loan' and the owner decided she wanted to sell to us out of the blue. Buying was never discussed when we took her.

We asked for more time to consider but basically have now decided not to pursue. Shes advanced in years and with a known old injury... (not causing her issues at the moment) but not to say it won't.

So... why do i feel bad about this... am i within my rights to return her asap..? Our contract for the first 6 months will be up in June so should i keep her until then or do you think that after being messed about with this i am within my rights to exercise the 30 days on either side returns policy?

Poor mare -shes so sweet... i do feel bad about returning her but at the same time we don't want an expensive field ornament in a few years. OH is progressing well and he wants something that will help him not decline.

I just want advice on returning really as i'm not a person to go back on an arrangement and a 3 month loan was never our intention. At the same time i can't trust the loaner anymore so i don't want to spend a fortune keeping the mare to have her taken at short notice a little further down the line.
 
You are within your rights to return the mare. I am a little confused- permanent loan means you keep the horse forever, but the owner would still retain control/ensure not passed on. You could call the bluff and ask why the owner wants to sell when you had it on loan? and just say thanks but no thanks - you have no desire to change the terms and if the owner wants to sell her, then you will return said mare but would keep her as per the original agreement - i.e on loan.
 
I think as there was never any discussion about buying her, you have every right to return her.
You agreed to loan her only, and if the owner now needs to sell her I would just say well we dont want to buy her for whatever reasons so you need to take her back to sell.
If they ask you to continue with the remaining 3 months, I'd just say well as you will be taking her back at that point, I'm not prepared to invest money into a horse that is being taken back for someone else to benefit from.

She may be sweet, but if not the right horse for you long term, you can't buy a horse because she's sweet or you feel guilty. Horses are a huge investment and a big commitment so you have to get the right one.

The loaner should understand and has no grounds to be peed off.
The loaner of course may always have had this in mind, a lot of people get really attached to their loan horses and would rather buy them than have them taken from them.
 
Last edited:
I don't understand the tone of you post tbh .

I' not sure either that you are being ' messed about with'. The owner asked if you'd like to buy her and you said no. Now it seems you want to off load the mare asap because she's aged and not suitable for your OH. It makes me wonder why you loaned her in the first place as even young horses can become lame etc etc.

I think it would be better if you return her as from the basis of this post you don't appear to be committed enough to her and clearly won't be there for her if she goes lame, of no use etc etc.

Apologies if this seems harsh its just the opinion i've formed from the post.
 
The loan was for a year plus however long we wanted to keep her.

No issue in terms of commitment but i don;t need to explain myself on here.

My point of the post is - i've been put in a position of being asked to buy a horse i don;t want to keep long term. Thats why i took a chance on loaning her not buying as i had doubts about her history.
 
BBH said:
I don't understand the tone of you post tbh .

I' not sure either that you are being ' messed about with'. The owner asked if you'd like to buy her and you said no. Now it seems you want to off load the mare asap because she's aged and not suitable for your OH. It makes me wonder why you loaned her in the first place as even young horses can become lame etc etc.

I think it would be better if you return her as from the basis of this post you don't appear to be committed enough to her and clearly won't be there for her if she goes lame, of no use etc etc.

Apologies if this seems harsh its just the opinion i've formed from the post.
Click to expand...


I have read it as the owner is going to sell this horse, a presumption made maybe, but equally so are you presuming the owner doesn't plan to sell and was just wondering if the loanee wanted to buy?

Perhaps the OP could clarify this.
If the owner is going to sell regardless of whether the Loanee wants to purchase or not, the horse will be returned in any event, and the loanee is under no obligation to buy, nor should feel guilty about it if she is not the right horse for them.

If the owner has no intentions of removing the horse from the loanee to sell, then yes its possible that the loanee has realised that this is just not the right horse for them.

I'd like to know what the owners intentions are :D
 
I agree, permanent loan means just that - permanent, what would you have done if she had gone lame under loan? Returned her to the owner? I don't see the problem with the owner asking if you want to buy her, you said no, which to me indicates that this is not something you ever thought of as permanent and always have intended to return the mare to the owner once she had outlived her usefulness, I also agree you do not seem to be committed to this mare one iota.
 
HollyJ said:
The loan was for a year plus however long we wanted to keep her.

No issue in terms of commitment but i don;t need to explain myself on here.

My point of the post is - i've been put in a position of being asked to buy a horse i don;t want to keep long term. Thats why i took a chance on loaning her not buying as i had doubts about her history.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with loaning a horse and having no intentions of keeping the horse long term, that is the whole purpose of a loan!!
Parents do it with kids ponies all the time, and people do it prior to buying their first horse to see if horse ownership suits.
Its crazy to think that every horse we look after we should have a life long commitment to, needs change, circumstances change and whilst we have a responsibility to ensure our horses go on to good homes, suggesting lack of committment because we know from the outset that the horse isn't a life time keeper is an unfair judgement.
 
As you originally had every intention of keeping her for at least a year why don't you just tell the owner that you are not interested in buying her and want to keep to the original agreement.

It does seem like you have also changed your mind for some reason - is this just because you want a more secure arrangement or is it because you are worried the mare will break down? If the mare breaks down she will probably be PTS anyway by the sound of it.

It is unlikely that the owner will be able to sell the mare very quickly anyway and if you like her as much as you are saying then I cannot see why you would want to get shot of a good-un. They can be very difficult to find!

Sounds to me like the owner might have never had a long term arrangement in mind all along and that she always wanted to sell the mare but possibly couldn't find a buyer so thought a loaner who falls for her might be an "easy catch". I do hope you and the mare find a good solution to this - sod the irresponsible owner though.

Good luck.
 
Well, the owner has terminated the contract, so yes you can return her straight away.

However, if you had been getting on well with her prior to the selling news, I'd be inclined to see the loan out. Return the horse in June - at which point the owner can organise for potential purchasers to view her.

But, the old injury may not cause any problems - and if she's going cheap could be the making of your OH if they suit each other. Field ornaments aren't necessarily expensive - and if you're keeping her at home, the costs are negligble.
 
From an older thread.

Bit of a pointless post really as i know no-one but me can tell me what to do. Basically we got a mare on long term loan 6 weeks ago... today we got a call that shes now for sale.

Price is reasonable but the whole point of the loan was that we didn't want to buy at the moment. Now i feel that we;re in a situation we didn't want to be in...
Any advice for anyone thats been there...

Financially its not a problem... psychologically it is, after the heartbreak of losing my lovely boy three years ago

Do we bite the bullet!!
Click to expand...

We were meant to have her for a year and then after that however long we liked. The owner said she didnt want to sell her - then a few weeks down the line she does?!!

i would buy her but she is 17 so no spring chicken and she has an old injury which she is fully recovered from. i don't feel that a few weeks is long enough to know if that would cause any problems in the future. i took the chance with loaning her as i knew that at the end of the day she could be returned longterm -- buying is a whole new ballgame!

shes so lovely, not put a foot wrong and is everything i've been looking for really. i think i just liked having that 'crutch' of another owner to fall back on.

decisions decisions > that i didnt want to make
Click to expand...

You need to talk to the owner and see if they'd like you to stick to the agreed loan time (until June) or not. The summer would be a good time for them to sell and a good time for you to look for your own horse to buy, so maybe this would work out for everyone.
 
Yes hung drawn and quartered...i have no commitment lol... i often don;t know why i come on here :o

To clarify - we took a horse on loan for my OH, Maybe error of words so we'll change it to 'long term' loan . When we took her - the owner said she wanted to loan her out but had NO...I repeat NO intentions of selling her. A few weeks down the line due to change in circumstance we are asked if we want to buy her...

After hours and weeks of deliberation we have decided not to pursue. The owner hasn;t give me a straight answer on whether she'll be sold regardless which is why i am so dubious in continuing the loan if she will be sold anyway.

I was happy to keep said animal for the duration but owner broke the deal in less that 2 months as far as i'm concerned.

re would i have returned if lame.. no i wouldn;t have but that wasn;t my reason for posting. Would i want to take on a horse that may be retired in 3 years and be kept by me for another 10 because i got screwed over...NO and neither i doubt would you.

I have kept all of my horses to the bitter end so taking one on as another forever horse knowing this is what could happen is not my responsibility is it??
 
missyme10 said:
There is nothing wrong with loaning a horse and having no intentions of keeping the horse long term, that is the whole purpose of a loan!!
Parents do it with kids ponies all the time, and people do it prior to buying their first horse to see if horse ownership suits.
Its crazy to think that every horse we look after we should have a life long commitment to, needs change, circumstances change and whilst we have a responsibility to ensure our horses go on to good homes, suggesting lack of committment because we know from the outset that the horse isn't a life time keeper is an unfair judgement.
Click to expand...


I agree that loaning is very popular but usually for longer than a few weeks as in this case. The OP IMO should have thought harder about what she was taking on if she wants a horse who won't go lame and will suit her OH longer term.

Poor horse being bounced around like this.
 
I have kept all of my horses to the bitter end so taking one on as another forever horse knowing this is what could happen is not my responsibility is it??
Click to expand...

Well to be fair Holly, any of our horses could break a leg tomorrow - ie. we never know what's around the corner.

Anyway - bottom line is, you don't want the horse (by the sounds of it) - so return it.
 
HollyJ said:
Yes hung drawn and quartered...i have no commitment lol... i often don;t know why i come on here :o

To clarify - we took a horse on loan for my OH, Maybe error of words so we'll change it to 'long term' loan . When we took her - the owner said she wanted to loan her out but had NO...I repeat NO intentions of selling her. A few weeks down the line due to change in circumstance we are asked if we want to buy her...

After hours and weeks of deliberation we have decided not to pursue. The owner hasn;t give me a straight answer on whether she'll be sold regardless which is why i am so dubious in continuing the loan if she will be sold anyway.

I was happy to keep said animal for the duration but owner broke the deal in less that 2 months as far as i'm concerned.

re would i have returned if lame.. no i wouldn;t have but that wasn;t my reason for posting. Would i want to take on a horse that may be retired in 3 years and be kept by me for another 10 because i got screwed over...NO and neither i doubt would you.

I have kept all of my horses to the bitter end so taking one on as another forever horse knowing this is what could happen is not my responsibility is it??
Click to expand...



Well that makes more sense. I agree it would be harder to commit to a horse if the owner hasn't told you whether it'll be sold or not. No-one wants to put time and money into a horse if it could be sold at any moment.
 
I followed your original thread with interest and I think you've been unfairly jumped on in this one! I still think it was unfair of the owner to put the pressure of buying onto you when it hadn't been mentioned. Does the owner want to advertise the horse? If so, I would give the 30 days notice and return her so that you don't get caught up in the sale. What did she say when you said you are not interested in buying her?

ETA: from what you have said above, I think the owner was trying to get YOU to buy the horse and now that you have said no, she will be happy to continue the loan for the foreseeable. Are you happy to keep her?
 
BBH said:
I agree that loaning is very popular but usually for longer than a few weeks as in this case. The OP IMO should have thought harder about what she was taking on if she wants a horse who won't go lame and will suit her OH longer term.

Poor horse being bounced around like this.
Click to expand...

I agree poor horse, she's clearly not a young one and from the sounds of it doesn't have many years ahead of a working career.
I think as OP has now posted above, the owner wont say if she's going to sell or not regardless, now if I was loaning I'd not be happy with that at all simply because I'd not know from one week to the next if the horse is going to be taken from me. I'd rather the horse went now and I found another one, because its not fair for owners to only loan out becasue they have no other present option, and then sell from under you with no thought to the loanee - it happens all the time, I've seen so many upset people on here, the horse they've had for ages, love dealy and its whipped away with no thought at all by the owner because the owner can do what they want.
 
BBH said:
Well that makes more sense. I agree it would be harder to commit to a horse if the owner hasn't told you whether it'll be sold or not. No-one wants to put time and money into a horse if it could be sold at any moment.
Click to expand...


Yes it does make more sense, it was the OP stating that it was a permanent loan that made me think she was not committed to the mare.

OP I can now more fully understand your position and agree it is not ideal, however, if the horse has as many problems as you state, I cannot see the owner being able to sell her easily, perhaps she was hoping that you would have fallen in love with her and would give her a permanent home?

It is the poor mare I feel for here, how old is she?
 
You've obviously thought hard about buying her, & decided that's not the right move for you or your OH (for whatever reasons, no-one knows your situation like you).

Personally I would talk to the owner, & say it's the original agreement or she goes back. Be very aware that if she agrees to leave her with you, she may continue trying to sell her. State very clearly that whilst you have her on loan no propoective purchasers are allowed at the yard where she is kept or to ride her, & you will not show her off to any propective purchasers either. It would be too easy for the owner to leave her with you to cover the costs then sell her from underneath you.

She either stays with you as per the loan agreement, & is not for sale within that time, & wont be sold until she returns to the owner & is at a location where she is responsible for her keep & bills. If this is not acceptable to the owner, then give her notice & return the mare before you get in more of a mess.

It is sad for the horse, but it is not your fault this situation has occured. She is also not your horse, the number of homes in which she lives is the responsibility of her owner, not you.

She sticks to the agreed loan (with the above agreement re no access to potential purchasers) or goes back with notice at immediate effect. It sounds as though her owner is trying her luck with you, hoping you'll be a soft touch & buy her.
 
You're quite within your rights to return her after the contract is up.

You want a horse that will take you forward for years. And at least you know the dangers of taking on an oldie with a known injury - anything could happen. If something did happen, you'd be in the position of having an expensive lawnmower and not being able to support another horse at the same time.

It's not right for you, and it's not right for the horse.

And for what it's worth, I think it's unfair of the owner of the horse to suddenly put her up for sale. Think maybe she was hoping that you would say yes due to the situation.
 
Faracat said:
I do think that people are being a little harsh to Holly, she has obviously thought about this long and hard.
Click to expand...

Thanks - like you would not beleive :(

Stupid me that i am would end up keeping the horse through conscience thats its been buggered around from pillar to post thanks to as someone said 'irresponsible owner'

For once in my life i'm afraid its head over heart on this one. I also agree with what someone said that the owner maybe hoped a sucker like me would take her on loan and buy as she would have struggled to sell.
 
pip6 said:
You've obviously thought hard about buying her, & decided that's not the right move for you or your OH (for whatever reasons, no-one knows your situation like you).

Personally I would talk to the owner, & say it's the original agreement or she goes back. Be very aware that if she agrees to leave her with you, she may continue trying to sell her. State very clearly that whilst you have her on loan no propoective purchasers are allowed at the yard where she is kept or to ride her, & you will not show her off to any propective purchasers either. It would be too easy for the owner to leave her with you to cover the costs then sell her from underneath you.

She either stays with you as per the loan agreement, & is not for sale within that time, & wont be sold until she returns to the owner & is at a location where she is responsible for her keep & bills. If this is not acceptable to the owner, then give her notice & return the mare before you get in more of a mess.

It is sad for the horse, but it is not your fault this situation has occured. She is also not your horse, the number of homes in which she lives is the responsibility of her owner, not you.

She sticks to the agreed loan (with the above agreement re no access to potential purchasers) or goes back with notice at immediate effect. It sounds as though her owner is trying her luck with you, hoping you'll be a soft touch & buy her.
Click to expand...


Very good advice :)
Holly has every right to expect some security whilt loaning and insist the horse is not up for sale whilst she's loaning the horse and footing the bill !
 
I agree with the last poster, you do need some security whilst loaning. This is why I don't like loaning, you can get had by precious owners who can act up and interfere over the most minutae detail or the total opposite who don't want to know at all and leave important health decisions to the loaner.
A friend of mine loaned a horse and the owner started trying to dictate how often she rode the horse and then had the cheek to get another friend to also ride the horse, without my friend's agreement and it was my friend paying all the bills for this horse, which anyway had intermittent lamness. Needless to say that all ended up very unhappily with my friend walking away from the yard literally overnight and who could blame her?
People can be very unreasonable and dishonest about their original intentions.
 
Thanks pip 6 - agreed good advice. i could as you say offer to keep her for the remainder of the loan with no access by potential buyers. That way the owner won't be getting a free sales livery provided at my expense.

If she refuses i know to return and put this all down to bad experience.
 
Faracat said:
I do think that people are being a little harsh to Holly, she has obviously thought about this long and hard.
Click to expand...

Agreed, horses owner has changed the ball game, not holly. I would talk nicely to the owner, explain that you would love to keep the mare under the original conditions, if this can't be done then you are happy for her to be returned in the next couple of months.
 
I had something similar happen to me on the horse I had loaned for 2 years but I have decided to buy. I think some owners do take advantage of the fact that you get so attached to the horse that they hold all the cards. I can understand where you are coming from though as until a few months ago I had no intention of ever buying as I didnt think I would want the commitment as I will eventually want to start a family and will have other commitments. I have now changed my mind as I couldnt be without her anymore so I do want to commit. If the owner has changed her mind so soon I'm not sure I would trust her either.
 
It may not have been the owners intention to sell when she loaned the mare, its sometimes hard to let go, but seeing that the horse had a good home, and had got used to not having her around, she might have felt differently and decided to sell before the horse becomes too old to sell on. I don't know what the injury she had was, but at only 17 yrs she may remain sound and fit for a few years yet.
I would be concerned though at the owners change of heart in that, if you continue to loan and decide to return the mare in the future, the owner may not take her back. What will happen to the poor horse then ? My guess is, you'll end up keeping a horse you never intended to keep forever.
If you don't wish to keep her permanently,terminate the contract, with notice, now before your heart rules your head.

I had this done to me once. On arriving to pick up a loan horse, it suddenly became a contract for LWVTB after initial 6 months, then owner started pushing for a sale after 10 weeks. Having spent a fortune on rugs, etc and vet treatment and discovered an old injury the owner claimed to have never noticed, I sent the horse back. ( Still feel guilty about him 8 years on.)
 
HollyJ said:
To clarify - we took a horse on loan for my OH, Maybe error of words so we'll change it to 'long term' loan . When we took her - the owner said she wanted to loan her out but had NO...I repeat NO intentions of selling her. A few weeks down the line due to change in circumstance we are asked if we want to buy her...
Click to expand...

The telling bit for me from this is change of circumstances which can happen to anyone with the best intentions in the world. Unless you know for sure that this is a lie from the owner, I feel you're being a bit ungenerous to them; they could well have been waiting for the right person which they think you are/were. If it is a lie, fair enough and I would return the mare asap.
 
Maesfen said:
The telling bit for me from this is change of circumstances which can happen to anyone with the best intentions in the world. Unless you know for sure that this is a lie from the owner, I feel you're being a bit ungenerous to them; they could well have been waiting for the right person which they think you are/were. If it is a lie, fair enough and I would return the mare asap.
Click to expand...

This is how I also feel, circumstances change, and unfortuately non of us have a crystal ball. At least the owner gave you first refusal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top