Loan horse - Owners visiting!

[gallopingby]

Always at least two sides to every story. If l loaned one of mine l would expect to hear how they were getting on and having had a bad experience of sending one away for schooling years ago would initially turn up both planned and unplanned.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Always at least two sides to every story. If l loaned one of mine l would expect to hear how they were getting on and having had a bad experience of sending one away for schooling years ago would initially turn up both planned and unplanned.

I understand more regular checks at the start but the loaner has the horse over a year and made huge improvements to the horse (including training him/her out of dangerous behaviour) which the owner couldn't. It's reasonable to assume the loaner is doing a better job of keeping the horse happy than the owner did (which I understand might be an uncomfortable truth for the owner).

Texting to tell the loaner when they want to come up and ride multiple times a month isn't on IMO for a long term loan where there are no concerns over welfare. If that's what the owner wants to do, they need to IMHO be prepared to change the contract and contribute towards the cost of the horse. And I wouldn't blame the loaner for not agreeing to those terms either.

 

[Jenko109]

Three times a month is absurd.

Mine has been on loan since late summer and I have visited once.

I do ask for a few pics occasionally and check in with the lady who gives them lessons.

On the most part, I leave them well alone and let them enjoy the horse.

I certainly wouldnt expect to ride unless this was a prior arrangement that was agreed before the horse was taken on loan.

 

[SpottyTB]

Always at least two sides to every story. If l loaned one of mine l would expect to hear how they were getting on and having had a bad experience of sending one away for schooling years ago would initially turn up both planned and unplanned.

I should have put in the original post - She does update them weekly or at the very least fortnightly with photos and info... they're facebook friends too (friends always putting stories up of her etc)! Owner turns up to ALL comps, beach rides etc.. so it's not exactly no comms! they're also 14 months in to the arrangement!

I understand the risk of it going wrong, I've also had one go on loan to someone that had kept pony with me at the same yard for years, took her away to end up a complete hat rack 6 months later!

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I should have put in the original post - She does update them weekly or at the very least fortnightly with photos and info... they're facebook friends too (friends always putting stories up of her etc)! Owner turns up to ALL comps, beach rides etc.. so it's not exactly no comms! they're also 14 months in to the arrangement!

I understand the risk of it going wrong, I've also had one go on loan to someone that had kept pony with me at the same yard for years, took her away to end up a complete hat rack 6 months later!

So its all a bit full on then!

If I was YO, I'd be pretty irritated about a person turning up without prior contact (even a 20 mins ahead text) to visit so regularly.

If I was loaner, I'd be also getting pretty grumpy about owner turning up to ride. I think perhaps she needs to ask the owner if she now wants horse back? (yes, I've read that she cannot, but asking the question outright might make her think?)

Otherwise, does the loaner want to charge the owner 'sharer' fees, which would cover her riding visits? if owner looks horrified, then perhaps she needs to stop coming to ride...

In short, is the loaner happy with this as it currently is tho? If not, she needs to act. If she is, then thats her choice.

 

[Fransurrey]

Tricky one as loaner obviously loves the horse to continue for so long. Sounds like she needs a proper meeting with the owner to lay down some boundaries and be prepared to end the loan if the owner isn't happy. Turning up unannounced and expecting to ride is taking the p155. Big time. When I loaned mine out, I visited a week later, then two weeks after that, then once a month. All announced. Had I had concerns earlier than I did, I would have made an unannounced visit, but otherwise if they're paying all the bills, they have the right to continue without intrusion. You wouldn't let a house and expect to turn up to have a bath or use the facilities, would you? This is bonkers.

 

[SpottyTB]

So its all a bit full on then!

If I was YO, I'd be pretty irritated about a person turning up without prior contact (even a 20 mins ahead text) to visit so regularly.

If I was loaner, I'd be also getting pretty grumpy about owner turning up to ride. I think perhaps she needs to ask the owner if she now wants horse back? (yes, I've read that she cannot, but asking the question outright might make her think?)

Otherwise, does the loaner want to charge the owner 'sharer' fees, which would cover her riding visits? if owner looks horrified, then perhaps she needs to stop coming to ride...

In short, is the loaner happy with this as it currently is tho? If not, she needs to act. If she is, then thats her choice.

Oh no she's not happy, which is why i offered to do a post to get other peoples opinions and what they do! Friend works SO so hard (in the NHS) to keep this horse, not in an easy job at all with long hours and limited hours to enjoy the horse... she keeps said horse in full work all through the year and said horse looks (and now behaves) amazing for it. Its really deflating for her to keep getting these texts about popping in and then to ask if they can go for a spin round the block or in the school. Her riding/horse time keeps her sane and i think its just become a bit intrusive and deflating...

I think your right, she needs to sit down and have a conversation with them about it all! I couldn't have done it this long...

 

[ihatework]

I’d start the convo along the lines of:

We have done a year

Can I check you are happy with care of horse

Could we look to review contract terms

I’d like to move towards a slightly more independent loan with more defined owner checks

Could we agree a price up front and first refusal if you ever want to sell

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Oh no she's not happy, which is why i offered to do a post to get other peoples opinions and what they do! Friend works SO so hard (in the NHS) to keep this horse, not in an easy job at all with long hours and limited hours to enjoy the horse... she keeps said horse in full work all through the year and said horse looks (and now behaves) amazing for it. Its really deflating for her to keep getting these texts about popping in and then to ask if they can go for a spin round the block or in the school. Her riding/horse time keeps her sane and i think its just become a bit intrusive and deflating...

I think your right, she needs to sit down and have a conversation with them about it all! I couldn't have done it this long...

In that case, 'no' has to be her new word. Tack could be temporarily moved to prevent riding without notice.
She def needs to have 'the conversation' and get it over and done with - and in writing for both of them.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'm a YO and we have horses on my yard currently on loan.

I've also been both a loaner AND a loanee in the past.

Key words in ANY loan arrangement: TRUST, TRANSPARENCY, and COMMUNICATION.

THREE vital people in any loan arrangement: Owner, Loaner & YO. Sorry yes it is obvious, but problems can and do occur if the "trust transparency & communication" thing don't happen - or are flawed - within this particular three-fold dynamic.

Best owners: those who make an appointment, rock-up with titbits, are genuinely concerned for their horse and are all too happy to proffer advice on what works/what doesn't work/what horse likes etc. We have a lovely owner right now who we knew because she was a vet-nurse at my local surgery a few years ago and we were honoured by her placing her rather difficult-to-place mare with us. She admitted the mare wasn't right for her, and had been inundated with requests for people wanting her for "hunting & pony club", which would have frankly been crazy for this mare as whilst she's 14 she's as green as grass plus the fact that physically she needed some time to re-hab. She'd also developed a fear of traffic due to being involved in a couple of accidents (not the mare's fault at all). This lovely owner makes an appointment, comes to see her horse, asks questions i.e. are there any concerns etc. She insists that her horse is attended to by a particular vet in the vet practice; which actually works brilliantly as it is the same vets as ours! IF this owner did rock-up without an appointment we wouldn't turn her away! We get on very well and it wouldn't be a problem.

Worst owner: and by god this was "worst-ever". We had an owner who'd travelled her horse here from 3'ish hrs away. As soon as it arrived here (we'd let her know) she was sobbing down the phone about it. In spite of the travelling distance she was up here every weekend - apparently they were house-hunting in this area - but she obviously felt it was her "right" to rock up at the yard, and stay indefinitely......... one weekend she (and hubs, who was obviously frankly embarrassed by her) came without an appointment. We did let them on the yard, and she was then sobbing her heart out over her beloved horse saying that she was "going through a bereavement process about losing her horse" etc etc. Not helpful when three of us on the yard had actually "lost" our beloved horses forever, as in PTS. She could reach out and hug and cuddle hers, but we couldn't, and it wasn't helpful at all. Very insensitive in fact.

She rocked up at my yard - without an appointment or contacting the loanee - one Sunday morning. Early, like 9am. I live on-site. I said sorry but I wasn't expecting you and the loanee isn't expecting you either, and if you want to see your horse you will need to make prior arrangements. She started boo-hoo'ing. Blubbing fit to bust the dam. Hubby started apologising for her (had obviously got used to this through the years, poor bloke) and then went and sat in the car coz he was obviously sooh embarrassed. Then she went into the "I'm going through bereavement for my horse" routine. I said to her candidly that look, you're patently not ready to let go of your horse to anyone on loan, end of, and did say to her that whilst we all accepted it was hard for her having her beloved horse three hours drive away, we'd all actually LOST our horses forever and that her continued sobbing about this wasn't acceptable, end of.

The horse went back.

 

[marmalade76]

It's a difficult one. If I'd loaned a horse out (which only happened once and was not for long) I'd probably keep an eye via social media. When I've loaned I've not had much in the way of visits but I did pass on regular updates & photos. If I were loaning a horse and the owner was regularly turning up I'd probably get fed up with it and hand it back. But how often do you read of a loaned horse that has been neglected or mistreated and a lot of the comments are along the lines of "why didn't you check up on it?" So, as I said, difficult one.

 

[Wishfilly]

Not sure re offering to buy her.. owner definitely not in a position to take her back!

It’s crossed my mind they’re considering taking her back to sell, not sure it’s all really bizarre.

Thanks everyone for your responses, think it’s given my friend something to think about going forwards

If they aren't in a position to take the horse back, I would be very tempted to try and get the amount of riding formalised in the loan agreement.

E.G. "You have turned up a lot recently, asking to ride the horse- this is a bit inconvenient as it messes up my plans for riding for the week, especially if I was planning for her to have a break that day. I am happy for you to visit whenever you like, although the yard owner would like prior notice, but could we formalise the amount of riding you would like to do each month? As I am paying all the costs and putting all the work into the horse, I thought once a month would be fair. Or would you like to move to a more part loan arrangement with you paying some of the costs again?"

Obviously she'd have to be prepared for the owner to call her bluff and move to a part loan etc, which she may not want, but it may help get it formalised for everyone's sakes?

If she really loves the horse and would be devastated to lose her, I wouldn't do this.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I read the thread yesterday, and have read the new replies from today, and I still think the same as I did when reading the first post. I think it sounds like the owner simply can't resist wanting to take somewhat regular rides on their horse now that SpottyTB's friend have both made the horse well-behaved, and keeps it that way.
If the owner comes to every competition the friend takes the horse to, surely that should help to show the owner that the horse isn't going in the wrong direction in rideability. At least enough for the owner to not be able to blame that they come to ride the horse a few times per month on wanting to check so that the friend isn't ruining the horse.

 

[saddlesore]

Very odd- near weekly visits and expecting to ride? No loan agreement I’ve ever known has been like that

 

[ycbm]

There is a big yard in this area which will not accept any horses on loan in the yard. This is why, obviously.

Iagree with others that this owner needs a formal arrangement and to start paying some of the horse's costs.
.

 

[poiuytrewq]

When I put my horse out on loan I usually called ahead and checked I was ok to go, occasionally I’d be in the area and just text and say I’m close can I pop and give him a polo, she never seemed to mind, even if she was at work she would let me just go and visit him so I knew she had nothing to hide.
I rode occasionally, rarely though as he was on loan locally to my parents and I’d moved away and had a baby.
If I was loaning a horse I’d say monthly or less (preferably less!)
Weekly is too much for a full loan imo

 

[AandK]

Regular visits yes, but the riding, that would be a big no from me. If the owner wants to ride the horse they need to either take it back, or come to an agreement where it is a share instead of a full loan. IMO they are taking the biscuit...

 

[southerncomfort]

I'm going to be generous to the owners (well it is Christmas !), and suggest that they genuinely love the horse, and they are delighted to see him/her being used and enjoyed.

I think they are also enjoying the role of 'owner of a competition horse', hence turning up to all competitions.

This is all fine to a point, however the loaner should be able to make some plans without feeling the need to include the owners all the time.

Nor is it OK to turn up unannounced several times a month.

I think the loaner has 2 choices here, either be honest with the owners about it feeling a bit overwhelming, and wondering if the owners have some concerns that makes them feel they need to visit so often.

Or subtly start making some changes I.e stop telling the owners about every single outing and just fill them in on the how the day went afterwards (Or don't tell them...its possible to exclude certain friends from SM posts).

If they turn up at the yard unannounced, I wouldn't always be rushing down to accommodate them. Maybe the occasional 'I'm really sorry but I can't get to the yard right now'.

I think if the number of visits could be reduced, then the owners riding when they do visit wouldn't be so much of an issue.

 

[Birker2020]

It sounds to me as though they’re checking on it to see its progress and to then sell or take it back once your friend has schooled it on.

I did wonder that.

 

[suestowford]

I have a pony on loan, from a local rescue centre.
The first year I had a visit every three months. the next year every six months, and now we are on yearly visits. They always let me know they are coming, well in advance, although I would expect them to turn up unannounced if they had concerns for his welfare.

I am not surprised your friend isn't happy about these continual visits. I don't think anyone would be really.

 

[stormox]

The other side of the coin is when loans go wrong, or the horse gets sold by the loaner, the advice given is people are advised they should have made unannounced visits, or visited more regularly!

If it was my horse I had put out on loan I would be visiting (announced) at least every 3 weeks with the occasional unannounced visit.

 

[sarcasm_queen]

The problem is, it’s not your friends horse. If you can get the YO on side then you might be able to cut down on the visits. But at the end of the day, the horse is someone else’s “property”, and they have the right to see it

 

[GrassChop]

The other side of the coin is when loans go wrong, or the horse gets sold by the loaner, the advice given is people are advised they should have made unannounced visits, or visited more regularly!

If it was my horse I had put out on loan I would be visiting (announced) at least every 3 weeks with the occasional unannounced visit.

I feel that that would be too many visits.

I get that an owner has some responsibility of checking in to make sure the horse is okay but if someone felt the need to go that many times, I don't think they should put their horse out on loan if you can't trust the person.

Also, if the owner wanted to ride, I'd expect contribution to their care as it essentially becomes a share then.

 

[GrassChop]

Imagine renting a property, paying for all it's upkeep and the landlord kept coming round to use the shower and do his laundry. Obviously it's against the law but it's also wrong anyway. This is essentially no different when it comes to riding.

The loanee should have the rights to privacy and to also say no. Using the YO as an excuse to say no is a good idea too. I'd give the horse back if I was being checked up on that much. Once every 3 months would be reasonable. There needs to be limits and a proper contract in place.

 

[stormox]

I feel that that would be too many visits.

I get that an owner has some responsibility of checking in to make sure the horse is okay but if someone felt the need to go that many times, I don't think they should put their horse out on loan if you can't trust the person.

Also, if the owner wanted to ride, I'd expect contribution to their care as it essentially becomes a share then.

It would obviously have to be a written agreement between loaner and owner, but ultimately its the owners horse and the responsibility for its welfare is up to them.
They lose out, not the loaner, if its injured or learns bad habits.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I have only ever loaned out a horse on the condition it was kept at my yard. But even so I would never have dreamt of just getting on the loan horse and riding it whenever the fancy took me. My loanee was paying all expenses for the horse so I expected her to treat her as her own and not have me interfering every 5 minutes. Obviously if I had seen something I didn't like I would have said so! It worked very well for us but perhaps it was just good luck on both our parts.

 

[ihatework]

Well having just visited two of my horses out on loan today, I just feel very lucky that they are both in super homes being managed beautifully by lovely people.

 

[little_critter]

The other side of the coin is when loans go wrong, or the horse gets sold by the loaner, the advice given is people are advised they should have made unannounced visits, or visited more regularly!

If it was my horse I had put out on loan I would be visiting (announced) at least every 3 weeks with the occasional unannounced visit.

but this isn’t just popping in for welfare checks, this is expecting to ride nearly every weekend.

 

[dougpeg]

Not in my experience. I've loaned my horse out before and always visited by arrangement. I visited around every 3 months but did keep in touch in-between. Not to excess, but as the owner its important I know my horse is OK. I would not expect to ride or go unannounced (unless I had significant concerns anyway).

 

[SantaVera]

If I was a loanee I certainly would visit unannounced as often as I wished. It's the only way to really check if the horse is ok. If I wanted to ride it I would too,but would make sure the loaner knew I was going to ride otherwise they may think it's been stolen.