Loan horse - Owners visiting!

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Thanks for your reply!
Friend doesn’t mind them visiting but it can be as much as 3 times a month - baring in mind she’s had the mare over a year now without any problems and the mare has really improved with her behaviour/quirks.

I should have put this in the initial post but she updates them weekly/fortnightly with photos and info of what they’ve been up to.
She takes her out to comps, fun rides and beach trips and the owner spontaneously turns up to nearly every outing to watch!

I’d be sticking them on an information diet, post to friends but excluding the owner. Don’t let the owner know plans. She must feel completely stalked.

I’d start the convo along the lines of:

We have done a year

Can I check you are happy with care of horse

Could we look to review contract terms

I’d like to move towards a slightly more independent loan with more defined owner checks

Could we agree a price up front and first refusal if you ever want to sell

This, completely.

If they aren't in a position to take the horse back, I would be very tempted to try and get the amount of riding formalised in the loan agreement.

E.G. "You have turned up a lot recently, asking to ride the horse- this is a bit inconvenient as it messes up my plans for riding for the week, especially if I was planning for her to have a break that day. I am happy for you to visit whenever you like, although the yard owner would like prior notice, but could we formalise the amount of riding you would like to do each month? As I am paying all the costs and putting all the work into the horse, I thought once a month would be fair. Or would you like to move to a more part loan arrangement with you paying some of the costs again?"

Obviously she'd have to be prepared for the owner to call her bluff and move to a part loan etc, which she may not want, but it may help get it formalised for everyone's sakes?

If she really loves the horse and would be devastated to lose her, I wouldn't do this.

I’d be asking for the owner to pay if she’s riding virtually weekly. When I did that, it was called a share! I paid per ride. I’ve never seen a happy loan where the owner turns up constantly. There was one at my last yard where the owner turned up with her child and wanted a cub saddle so the littLe one could sit on the horse. The loaner was fed up but bought the horse last year so resolved the frequent visits which she found too intrusive.

I know it’s the owner’s ‘property’, but almost weekly visits is very intrusive.

 

[SpottyTB]

Just to make it clear as I think I’ve perhaps made it a bit foggy (sorry unintentional)…

They don’t ride said horse weekly (they probably visit 2-3 times a month), but probably ask to ride/have a hack out/ sit on in school once a month.. and usually for random reasons.. ie; had a bad day/misses the horse/fancies a ride etc etc.

Please remember she loaned said horse out because she couldn’t ride her for rearing… she’d tank being led etc etc… rarely goes up now & has improved drastically to lead!

Also, I’m fairly sure the issue here isn’t trust / concern for the horses welfare… having thought about it myself, I think the owner simply misses the connections/experiences she had with others when the horse was in her care… so she’s latched onto my friend a bit to feed that? She’s happy with everything going on with the horse and says so frequently….

That’s why it’s all a bit odd. I think my friends going to continue as she is for now, there’s a few changes coming for the owner so I think that will determine the steps my friend takes.

She’s been asked to be available on Boxing Day for a visit … having been told they were flexible over the Christmas period, they narrowed it down to Boxing Day only! She’s a better person than I am… .

 

[ElectricChampagne]

Just to make it clear as I think I’ve perhaps made it a bit foggy (sorry unintentional)…

They don’t ride said horse weekly (they probably visit 2-3 times a month), but probably ask to ride/have a hack out/ sit on in school once a month.. and usually for random reasons.. ie; had a bad day/misses the horse/fancies a ride etc etc.

Please remember she loaned said horse out because she couldn’t ride her for rearing… she’d tank being led etc etc… rarely goes up now & has improved drastically to lead!

Also, I’m fairly sure the issue here isn’t trust / concern for the horses welfare… having thought about it myself, I think the owner simply misses the connections/experiences she had with others when the horse was in her care… so she’s latched onto my friend a bit to feed that? She’s happy with everything going on with the horse and says so frequently….

That’s why it’s all a bit odd. I think my friends going to continue as she is for now, there’s a few changes coming for the owner so I think that will determine the steps my friend takes.

She’s been asked to be available on Boxing Day for a visit … having been told they were flexible over the Christmas period, they narrowed it down to Boxing Day only! She’s a better person than I am… .

I think your friend needs to have a conversation sooner rather than later. I suspect the unannounced visits will increase, and so will the expectation to ride.

I know it's not her horse but dictating days especially around Christmas is simply rude and not on.

I wouldn't be surprised if the owner decides to whip the horse out from under your friend.

If it was me I'd be politely handing the horse back and looking into sorting something else for myself.

 

[Melody Grey]

I personally feel Boxing Day is too much to ask. I’m very reluctant to intrude on anyone’s family time, especially over Christmas, many people have to work through it/ juggle family situations and are just about managing without that too.

 

[ihatework]

Well while she keeps saying yes, they will keep assuming it’s fine. Only one person can change this …..

 

[southerncomfort]

Well while she keeps saying yes, they will keep assuming it’s fine. Only one person can change this …..

Agree. Boxing Day is completely unreasonable. She needs to start saying no.

 

[saddlesore]

Reading further I actually think it’s ridiculous. Whilst the horse obviously still belongs to the owner, they’ve been placed out on loan for a reason. If you want your horse looked after, ridden, competed and free for you to turn up (and ride) whenever then pay for full competition livery.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

... But how often do you read of a loaned horse that has been neglected or mistreated and a lot of the comments are along the lines of "why didn't you check up on it?" So, as I said, difficult one.

The other side of the coin is when loans go wrong, or the horse gets sold by the loaner, the advice given is people are advised they should have made unannounced visits, or visited more regularly!

If it was my horse I had put out on loan I would be visiting (announced) at least every 3 weeks with the occasional unannounced visit.

But it's not as if this owner never sees their horse between their many yard visits. SpottyTB's friend are taking the horse out to both competitions, fun rides, and beach rides, and the owner have spontaneously turned up nearly every time to watch/see their horse. That makes me think that their sometimes almost weekly yard visits, have very little to do with worrying about their horse's health, surely they would be able to see if their horse is e.g. getting too skinny/fat, or haven't had their hooves properly taken care of, all the times when they see their horse out and about with SpottyTB's friend.

 

[ElectricChampagne]

Reading further I actually think it’s ridiculous. Whilst the horse obviously still belongs to the owner, they’ve been placed out on loan for a reason. If you want your horse looked after, ridden, competed and free for you to turn up (and ride) whenever then pay for full competition livery.

I tend to agree here, it sounds like she wants cometition livery without the costs.

 

[MissTyc]

If I was a loanee I certainly would visit unannounced as often as I wished. It's the only way to really check if the horse is ok. If I wanted to ride it I would too,but would make sure the loaner knew I was going to ride otherwise they may think it's been stolen.

But, then then why loan out the horse?

If you did that to me, you'd find yourself standing outside the yard gate holding your horse with any related possessions piled up neatly for immediate collection. And no, my yard owner, would not let you bring the horse back inside!

I have been both loanER and a loanEE, and everything about the owner discussed in this thread makes me uncomfortable. I am sure they are a lovely person and love the horse etc etc, but it sounds to me like they are not ready to FULL LOAN this horse and, rather, should reconsider what they really want which includes regular contact and the odd ride. That is a part loan in my book, and it can work very well. A FULL loan is just that, full responsibility for the horse without purchasing/owning it.

 

[Annagain]

I think I'd start having strategic lessons on the days the owner is visiting. "Sorry, we've got a lesson later / had a lesson earlier and horse needs to be fresh for that / isn't fit enough to do more than that in one day"

If the owner questions that I'd point out that as the person paying all the bills and doing all the care, I have the final say on what the horse does and if they want access to ride like they do, they'll need to consider changing the loan to a share agreement and contributing financially and in terms of the work.