Loan obligations

Lunaruns

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I inherited a horse when my dad died suddenly. He is a lovely horse but too big, too strong and too forward for me. I tried to make it work but had a young family and so when his sharer asked if she could take him on full loan I readily agreed. She moved him to another yard to be with friends. After about a year I offered to give him to sharer, which she declined. However she has cared for him for the last 6 years. During that time he has been intermittently lame due to navicular changes, ringbone and sidebone but whenever I checked in with loaner she said she was still happy to keep him.

In September I got a text from her to say she didn’t feel it was right to ride him anymore and could I contribute to livery fees so she can afford to ride other horses. I offered to take him back but she said she would like him to stay at current yard as he is settled there and he is now an old man at 24.

I agreed that we would share him and see how it goes. It’s been a bit of a disaster! Sharer is still taking him for long hacks despite the fact he is on 2 Bute a day, my daughter is not finding it easy to fit in at large cliquey yard and resents time up there, I hate the fact that the horses are in 24/7 all winter in conditions that I would describe as ‘less than ideal’ even for ridden horses.

Today I raised the idea of moving horse to my friends yard (DIY) with all year turnout. This resulted in sharer crying hysterically and saying she was afraid this would happen and she wished she had never got in touch to ask for money. She thinks he would be miserable being retired in a field (stabled at night) and she says she loves him too much to ever lose him and she doesn’t like having us around and taking half the time with him. I feel awful as it was never my intention to make anyone feel bad and when she asked me to contribute financially I thought she meant sharing him but apparently she just wanted to have some money towards his keep. She still says she doesn’t wish to own him.

I feel really confused as to what is the right thing to do now. Do I ‘fight’ her to move a horse I don’t actually want, to a yard that is in theory better, although there is every chance she is right about horse not settling/enjoying the turnout as he was a much younger horse last time I owned him fully? Do I have an obligation to continue to pay half the cost of a horse at a full livery that I don’t feel is suitable especially as I’m not convinced it is morally right to ride him, let alone having the liability of vets bills when I feel the horse is being kept in a way that is detrimental to his health?

I think this horse is all so tied up with dads death I’m struggling to know which way is up! On the one hand I accept he is my responsibility as his legal owner, on the other I feel that unless I have some control over how he is managed I am reluctant to just accept a liability for all and any costs for the rest of his life.

If you’ve managed to keep reading all of that I guess I’d love some impartial advice about what my obligations are and/ or what you would do in this situation.
 

Melody Grey

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He’s your horse, it’s totally your call as far as I can see. If he’s on two bute a day it sounds like he needs retiring to me, so I’d move him to retirement livery/ turn out if he were mine. You can’t be held to ransome by your sharer’s demands, he’s your horse not hers.

ETA: if she was afraid of losing him, she should have bought him off you/ accepted him being gifted.
 

paddi22

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the main priority is what is best for the horse. and what is best for older horses is be moving and turned out. If he was my horse horse I'd find a nice retirement livery and leave him out 24/7 there. it will be cheaper than full livery and will take pressure off you. He sounds like he needs to be retired from work if he is needing Bute to be ridden. she is being very selfish, and asking too much, and honestly sounds very very rude. horses go to retirement liveries and cope very well. if he doesn't you can reconsider, but try it first.

He is your horse at the end of the day. Offer the sharer the opportunity to buy, and when she says no, move him to where you feel fit and cut contact with her. You shouldn't have to fight her over anything. just say you are ending the share as his legal owner. give her whatever notice period you need.you can send her the odd pic, but I wouldn't be paying any attention to her views on anything. it's your horse, it's 100% your decision at the end of the day, she doesn't have to like it.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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Right so the Sharer had the chance to have him gifted to her but declined. No good sitting and crying then in that case.

Frankly think Sharer is taking the mickey big-time in asking you for money! The damned cheek!

For welfare reasons I would be stepping in and removing the horse to retirement livery somewhere else. You say you are hugely concerned that she is still riding him on long rides even on 2 Bute a day - that is frankly cruel and you would be perfectly justified in removing the horse from her "care" with immediate effect. This isn't fair on the horse!

Can appreciate that this horse reminds you very much of your dad and everything that happened and that this remains a source of sorrow for you. However you MUST now act - think of what your dad would do in this situation if you need motivation - and get this lovely old horse to somewhere where he can enjoy a peaceful retirement until you eventually need to make "a decision".
 

Ossy2

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TBH the sharer sounds totally selfish, she wants the horse so she can go on hours long hacks with her friends and by the sounds of it so she can fit in with others at the yard, but also wants spare cash to ride others. What does the vet say about prescribing 2 Bute a day to keep the horse in work, not that I’m adversed to giving a horse bute to keep them comfortable but there’s a limit.

Assuming you’d have to pay all costs if you moved the horse to the DIY yard your options would be to do that or just provide a cost contribute to the sharer and leave her too it for now.
 

lottiepony

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Agree with the general theme here which is offer him once more to the sharer for a nominal amount, if she doesn't want that then do what is best for him and you.
She can't have it both ways. She's lucky you agreed to help with financial side of things in the first place! And then to think you wouldn't then be more involved is a bit laughable.
 

Tarragon

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I do feel sorry you find yourself in this position.
If I were you, I would be inclined to just say that you would like to terminate the current arrangement and take the horse back and find a nice retirement livery for it. I don't think that the sharer is good for the horse now and wouldn't want her to own it even if she did want to change her mind!
 
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bouncing_ball

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i would tell her she either buys him off you for £1, or you will take him back and put him in a retirement home if he is comfortable or PTS if not...she either loves him or she doesnt....

This absolutely.

I’d add your not comfortable with an arthritic horse not getting daily turnout. It’s not your management style.

I’d then say she either she either buys him off you for £1, then as owner she can make all the management choices.

Or loan is terminated and your will take him back 100% and put him in a retirement environment suitable to his needs.
 

reynold

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I think the sharer is not a suitable carer for this elderly horse with lameness issues.

She is riding him more than he probably should be as he is on 2 bute. Also, whilst her clinging to him is perhaps understandable if she is attached to him emotionally, it also brings into question whether she will keep the horse going beyond when the final decision should be made and also keep riding him beyond the point where he should be fully retired.

Too many horses are kept going beyond what is in their best interests to suit the carer rather than the welfare of the horse. With the attachment related to the OPs father I think the OP would rather the final decision lays with her and not with this sharer.
 

Lacuna

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I've shared and loaned and it boggles my mind how anyone could act this way if they 'love' the horse so much. To me it sounds like the yard he is at is very convenient for her (horse always in and she can ride out for long periods with what sounds like a cliquey group).

If you are happy to part with him, knowing he will be kept there in that way then gift/sell him on. If not, sever the connection and move him somewhere where he will be able to have a happy retirement
 

Pinkvboots

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I would take him back the yard sounds totally unsuitable for him he really needs to have some turnout in winter, I also wouldn't want him going on long hacks on 2 bute a day that's just not fair.

You have offered him to her and she said no what more can you do it's no good her crying about it now she had the chance.
 

Velcrobum

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I would not offer him to her, the way she is keeping, and particularly riding, him is abusive. In your shoes, I would remove him from her "care" and send him to retirement livery out 24/7 where he will be kept moving.
.

Exactly!! It does not sound like she has his interests in the forefront of her mind.
 

Goldenstar

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He’s was your fathers horse and I think your instincts are right he should not be being ridden on two bute a day and he should not be living without turnout .

There’s going to be a scene but do the right thing get him to somewhere where he can be turned out monitor the situation and then PTS if you think it’s the time .
 

rowan666

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I'm guessing the reason she's declined ownership of him is that she doesn't intend to keep him long term once vets bills inevitably start to mount up and he is no longer rideable (although imo he should already be retired) so in your shoes I would terminate the loan ASAP and do what's best for the horse and you whether that be retirement livery or PTS
 

Cowpony

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Totally agree with all the above, and feel outraged on your behalf! She's had the benefits of having a horse without having to pay for him, and now when he can't do what she wants she's expecting you to pay, but not actually spend time with him or get in her way. Absolutely remove him from her "care" and send him somewhere which is best for him and you.
 

Lunaruns

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Thank you so much for all of the replies. It’s good to hear that I wouldn’t be wrong to take him back and give him a retirement now. I think I did know that was the right thing to do, I just hate upsetting people. However in this case the welfare of the horse has to come first.
I will take him to my friend’s yard where he will have a bedded shelter and a pen for nighttime and then proper turnout with other horses during the day. Hopefully he can then have a year or two of enjoying himself just being a horse before any further ‘decisions’ have to be taken.
 

ycbm

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Thank you so much for all of the replies. It’s good to hear that I wouldn’t be wrong to take him back and give him a retirement now. I think I did know that was the right thing to do, I just hate upsetting people. However in this case the welfare of the horse has to come first.
I will take him to my friend’s yard where he will have a bedded shelter and a pen for nighttime and then proper turnout with other horses during the day. Hopefully he can then have a year or two of enjoying himself just being a horse before any further ‘decisions’ have to be taken.

Excellent!
.
 

ester

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That sounds ideal!
I'm sure there will be drama but the horses do have to come first and it's ethically questionable to 1) be riding a horse that requires 2 bute daily, 2) be doing long hacks on it, 3) accepting point 1 expecting it to live with no turn out.

Well done for sticking by him at this point in his life.
(I have a retired oldie who lives bloody miles away because it's best for him, it was tough on me but he was the important one when the decision was made).
 

southerncomfort

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I do feel sorry you find yourself in this position.
If I were you, I would be inclined to just say that you would like to terminate the current arrangement and take the horse back and find a nice retirement livery for it. I don't think that the sharer is good for the horse now and wouldn't want her to own it even if she did want to change her mind!

I agree with this. I wouldn't be offering her the horse if she thinks continuing to ride him on long hacks and keeping him stabled 24/7 through the winter is acceptable.

The fact she wanted you to hand over cash and have nothing to do with the horse as well! The brassneck of it!

I'd be taking the horse back and retiring him ASAP.

ETA just read the update. Well done OP, that sounds absolutely perfect for him.
 

Winters100

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Personally I would not offer her the option to buy him and would just move him. To me keeping a horse in 24/7 is not how I would want any horse of mine to live, and at that age I would like him to be with plenty or turnout to keep moving. You could offer her the option to be in touch, visit him whenever she wishes etc, but if he is on 2 bute a day I would not personally allow him to be ridden.

You do not need to fight her over this, he is your horse and you may do as you please. If she wanted control of the horse she should have taken the offer when you made it.

I would be kind, explain why you are moving him for welfare reasons, but be clear that you are moving him and that it is not a discussion.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I certainly wouldn't offer him to the 'loaner' again. I would simply thank her for caring for him up to now, explain that after a discussion with a vet (whether you have done or not), you feel that your father would have wanted the horse to retire now and as you have found the perfect place for him to retire to he will be going there asap. She can argue all she likes but she can't say that it isn't what your father would have wanted. I would try to keep it all amicable but if she won't co-operate, I would ignore her and do what you think best.
 
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