Loanee wont give loan horse back!

[Petite.promises]

Hi there,
I was just after some advice regarding a loan situation I have. I put a horse out on loan about 5 years ago now. He was 15 years old at the time. The horse went to her to teach her daughter how to be safe around horses and learn the basics. He is 20 years old now. Her child is looking to go to pony club ect. I told her he is looking more at retiring due to his age, I asked for him back as some things have come to light recently about how he is being treated, which I don't agree with. The passport is dated and stamped in my name. I have a receipt from when I bought him and pictures of him all through his life since he was 18 months old. The situation is she said we can't have him back because she owned him. She then spoke to a solicitor and the story changed to we can't have him back because she believes we are incapable to give him the care he needs ( which is 1000% untrue as i have pictures of the condition he was in when he was in my care ) She said she BHS and a solicitor and said she was given the advice from both of them that she could demand to know where he is going and vet the place to make sure its suitable and can go and see him whenever she likes. I went to the police and they said that she has no rights whatsoever to demand to know where he is going or withhold him from me as through the evidence I produced they said they can clearly see that I own him.However I don't want this woman anywhere near me as she has sent threats and has been very rude and abusive towards me. I've read forums before saying take loads of friends with you and just get the horse back, problem Is I don't really deal with people, I don't have transport and would therefore have to hire transport and he is locked up and I have been denied going on the land at all to see him.
Any advice welcome, desperate situation!

 

[Melody Grey]

Since you seem to have the cooperation of police, would they be prepared to attend while you and a professional transporter collect the horse?

 

[Melody Grey]

Ignore demands to know where he’s going, that’s a last-ditch attempt to get some control over a situation they can’t control.

 

[ihatework]

Unfortunately if you want your horse back you are going to have to put your big girl pants on.

In your shoes I’d get a pro transporter. Advise them of the situation in advance (so they know what they are getting into) and be prepared to provide them evidence of your ownership.

Write to the loaners. Give them formal notice. Document that they have no legal right to the horse, you will be arranging collection and have already take legal advice and spoken to the police.

Then meet the transporter there. Let the police know in advance you are going. Then if you run into trouble call them while you are there.

 

[Annagain]

He is your horse and you have every right to visit him and take him back. This is usually with the requisite amount of notice but if you believe she will use the notice period to move him and deny you the opportunity to collect him you are within your rights to waive that notice period. If you suspect collecting him will lead to her acting on the threats she made to you, you could ask your local police to attend to support you removing the horse - you will probably need pretty strong evidence of this for them to agree to do that.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would organise transport and police presence and just go collect, I don't think I would pre warn her you are going to collect as it sounds like she could move him to stop you taking him.

 

[Petite.promises]

Since you seem to have the cooperation of police, would they be prepared to attend while you and a professional transporter collect the horse?

Police said they cant attend unless we call them and there is a breach of the peace x

 

[TPO]

I would organise transport and police presence and just go collect, I don't think I would pre warn her you are going to collect as it sounds like she could move him to stop you taking him.

Agree!

 

[Sprogladite01]

I'm sorry you're going through this, and what a load of utter tosh from the loanee.

The horse is yours, they know it, you know it, they just want to intimidate you into not collecting. They have zero rights as far as the horse is concerned and they flippin know it! Can you ask the police to go with you to collect if you're concerned for your safety? Don't tell them collection date so you can turn up and take the horse back, police and a few other people who are willing to be vocal back with you for backup. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do

 

[Quigleyandme]

I’m not sure the police would attend. They wouldn’t turn out when I was assaulted. I was asked to go to the police station to make my statement after waiting four hours for them at home. However, I believe they may have to attend if you clearly state you are in danger or feel fear and alarm.

 

[bonny]

Have you got a contract with her and did you see the horse during the 5 years he’s been away ?

 

[Petite.promises]

Have you got a contract with her and did you see the horse during the 5 years he’s been away ?

She says we haven't seen him at all but I have pictures/videos/texts from when we have been there she has also called for advice if he's been unwell so i could check him before she called a vet as i know him really well, and yes we have a contract x

 

[Melody Grey]

Have you got a contract with her and did you see the horse during the 5 years he’s been away ?

Although it wouldn't be ideal for the owner to not see a horse out on loan, I don't see what bearing that has on the OP getting it back? Still their property.

 

[BlackHorseNemo]

So sorry to hear that you are going through this OP as the same situation arose for my friend. He took advice from the police but they were not prepared to attend on a pre-arranged collection day although I am sure they would have attended if an affray had arisen. The police said it was a civil matter and they could not judge ownership.

My friend was fortunate as he knew where the horse was stabled in an unlocked yard so went out of hours and collected it when no one was there. It is essential that no damage is done so if a gate is locked or similar then this would be an issue.

The person who was retaining the horse then took my friend to the small claims court stating trespass and that the horse was theirs. However the case was not settled in their favour. My friend represented himself in court so no cost to him and he had all the documents and witness statements that the horse was his.

He kept the horse till the end of its days so I hope yours is a similar happy ending!

 

[LegOn]

Did you draw up a loan agreement with this person when you loaned him out 5 years ago? How much contact have you had with them during the 5 years?

 

[meleeka]

Organise the transport and phone the police. Tell them you’d like to attend to prevent a breach of the peace and that you fear for your safety.

 

[bonny]

Although it wouldn't be ideal for the owner to not see a horse out on loan, I don't see what bearing that has on the OP getting it back? Still their property.

Without a contract or contact in five years I think the OP could be in a difficult position legally.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Wonder if a firm of bailiffs would assist? After all, you are recovering your property.

 

[bonny]

She says we haven't seen him at all but I have pictures/videos/texts from when we have been there she has also called for advice if he's been unwell so i could check him before she called a vet as i know him really well, and yes we have a contract x

That’s good that you have a contract and so can prove that he’s yours. Just go and get him,I wouldn’t give any notice in the circumstances, just arrange transport and go and get him back

 

[Sossigpoker]

Police said they cant attend unless we call them and there is a breach of the peace x

If everything is as you say in your post , just go and take your horse.
I wouldn't give them warning and if necessary , park you'd trailer or lorry down the road in a safe place and walk the horse there.
You don't need to enter into discussion with the loaner about what you're doing with the horse and where he's going , just go get your horse.

 

[LegOn]

She says we haven't seen him at all but I have pictures/videos/texts from when we have been there she has also called for advice if he's been unwell so i could check him before she called a vet as i know him really well, and yes we have a contract x

Oh sorry I missed this aswell - brilliant, I would send them a registered letter with a copy of the contract and outlining the end of the loan will be commencing on X date (like that day essentially) and then you will be collecting the horse on X day & then go and get him - at least thing everything is in writing and there would be no comeback at all, if the police have to attend or anyone else - you have a contract and a letter outlining the termination of that contract. Sorry you are going through this though -its very stressful and it seems you have your horses best interests at heart since all you want if for him to enjoy his retirement - keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[Melody Grey]

Do you know the yard owner? If you do and you're on good terms, they will be able to help with access. I don't know of many YO's that would want to stand in the way of a collection by someone who is so obviously the owner of the horse, particularly when there's a chance of police involvement. I would want to contact them in advance if possible for everything to run smoothly on the day, though I appreciate you run the risk of the horse disappearing inbetween times. If you're hiring a professional transporter, you want to ensure you're going to have access, otherwise you could end up with a transport bill and no horse. You could have a situation where there genuinely is no-one on site and the place is locked up.

 

[Kaylum]

First of all the bhs wouldn't have said that secondly a solicitor wouldn't have said that do as everyone else says, a letter, a deadline and go get him. I presume you have been to visit regularly see that the horse is in full health.

 

[TPO]

Wouldn't hurt to call BHS if you are a gold member

 

[stangs]

Another vote for just showing up and taking the pony unless your contract says you need to give them notice before removing the horse.

Do you have any intimidating-looking friends that could come along? Also, I'd try to make sure that she doesn't know where you'll be keeping him. Maybe I'm being paranoid but just in case.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I would:

Give notice as per the contract notice period, and attach a copy of the contract, highlighting the relevant clause.

State that you will be sending transporter to pick up the horse on x date.

Suggest that if they would prefer to prepare the horse themselves and liaise directly with the transporter with regards to the time of the pick up, they should let you know and you’ll share the transporter details.

State that if you don’t hear otherwise, you will come up to the yard, prepare him to travel and load him yourself.

 

[blitznbobs]

Id just go and get him - no notice no nothing… worst scenario is they could sue you for a few weeks livery but if you let them know they could try and move him and you will / could then lose him forever

 

[meleeka]

When did you say you were ending the loan? That would count as the notice
period.

 

[Arzada]

Police said they cant attend unless we call them and there is a breach of the peace x

They might if you show them evidence of the threats that you have received. I have seen a previously arranged police presence at a wedding just in case there was trouble.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Any niceties about honouring a pre agreed notice period go out of the window if there are valid concerns about the horse's welfare.

Just go in and get him, and do it asap.

I have been both a loaner and a loanee. I collected my horse within 2 hours, which was how long it took me to go back home to hitch up the trailer and return.