Loaning horse but owner won't release passport??

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keely2903

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Hi,

I am loaning my first ever horse, he is a Shire cross, 24 years old and called Jack. He's 16.1hh, the owner doesn't have him insured so i'm going to have to do that myself however he does have a few problems;

he has contracted tendons in his back legs so he cannot jump. (i'm not yet confident enough to jump so it doesn't bother me). He also is quite an old boy, always has to be rugged up and gets foot sore easily and has to wear shoes.

Anyway, the owner has told me that she will not release the passport to me, she said it is the owner who keeps the passport and the loaner just has the horse. My friend has told me this is illegal and that I need the passport?

I don't want to do anything illegal and get a fine if I don't have his passport, i've asked if she will give me at least a photocopy but she doesn't seem keen on that idea either.

Any help would be great!! Can I loan him without a passport? What if I need it for the vets ect? She lives around 50 minutes from me so if I was in an emergency and had to get the vet out and needed his passport this would be a bit tough since I don't drive and the owner is heavily pregnant.

Help please!!:(
 
The owner is wrong. The passport should be with the horse but personally I think your bonkers and it sounds likes it going to be a very expensive and miserable winter for you!
 
Antw23uk - She seems to think it's okay for me to just be without it but I don't want this horse without the passport if I'm going to get into trouble. Why will it be an expensive and miserable winter? That's not a very nice thing to say - he just can't jump which he doesn't need medication or anything for, obviously it'll do damage if I do jump him but i'm not going to do that and he is completely fine other than needing shoes on and being rugged up!
 
Passport stays with the horse. You can't travel him without it. And yes there are times you'll need it for the vet.

If you don't drive how will you get to the yard to care for the horse?
 
I understand her reasoning for not want me to have it as her last horse she loaned out, the person ran away with the horse because she gave them the passport. However, I think if she is trusting me with the horse she should trust me with the passport??
 
amymay - I have a moped so can get to the yard to care for the horse, but wouldn't fancy driving my moped (which is restricted to 30mph) for ages to get the passport from her, she lives about 50 minutes away and it'd take me about 90 minutes to get there on my moped and she is literally in the middle of nowhere.
 
Have a look at the DEFRA website or give their helpline a call. I'm not sure on the most up to date rules but quite a few years ago a friend of mine loaned a horse to someone and sent him with a photocopy of the passport. This was what DEFRA told us back then - If you are travelling the horse, you get a time period (2 hours) to present the passport if you get stopped by Animal Health/DEFRA.
Is the horse vaccinated? You will need the vaccination card for the vets to mark up the vaccinations given - in which case you will need the passport. Or the owner could take it to the vets to be completed after horse has had the jabs. Recently, I loaned a horse and didn't get his passport for a year - the vets gave me evidence of his jabs on paper and then copied all the info into his passport when I got it.
As I say, this is my experience from quite a few years ago so things may have changed and others I'm sure will put you right.
 
I'm afraid I agree with Ant, a 24 yr old small pony is one thing but a horse will be a different kettle of fish. Owner probably thinks her lucks in, someone to feed, rug and pay for vets bills for him. Sorry to be negative as you are no doubt excited but the reality of keeping a large elderly horse is not exciting but expensive. Can you not find anything else?
Since the 'bute in the food chain' thingy the vet will require the original passport before treating the horse (our vets do anyway)
 
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kathantoinette said:
Have a look at the DEFRA website or give their helpline a call. I'm not sure on the most up to date rules but quite a few years ago a friend of mine loaned a horse to someone and sent him with a photocopy of the passport. This was what DEFRA told us back then - If you are travelling the horse, you get a time period (2 hours) to present the passport if you get stopped by Animal Health/DEFRA.
Is the horse vaccinated? You will need the vaccination card for the vets to mark up the vaccinations given - in which case you will need the passport. Or the owner could take it to the vets to be completed after horse has had the jabs. Recently, I loaned a horse and didn't get his passport for a year - the vets gave me evidence of his jabs on paper and then copied all the info into his passport when I got it.
As I say, this is my experience from quite a few years ago so things may have changed and others I'm sure will put you right.
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thank you for your help I will give them a call in the morning and see what they suggest!! :-)
 
jrp204 said:
I'm afraid I agree with Ant, a 24 yr old small pony is one thing but a horse will be a different kettle of fish. Owner probably thinks her lucks in, someone to feed, rug and pay for vets bills for him. Sorry to be negative as you are no doubt excited but the reality of keeping a large elderly horse is not exciting but expensive. Can you not find anything else?
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I can't find another horse no, I have been looking for months however all the horses I come across are labelled "no novices" I am only a confident beginner and my friend and his owner said he would be a super horse for me to start off with. :/
 
Hi, Please don't take control of the horse unless there is the passport to go with it.
Dont accept any promises - if passport not there on collection/delivery, then do not take on horse, end of.
Sorry if this is harsh, but am sure you will find another horse to loan quite easily, one that perhaps doesn't have medical issues (tendons) and the foot problems too.

OP, we all get carried away with getting a new horse, but please look at this objectively - you wouldn't buy a car if you had no paperwork (would you??)
 
Fair enough, but insist you have passport, tbh if someone wanted to sell a horse on loan they can easily do it without one. Not everyone is as honest as you. Good luck with him.
 
thank you, she is now offering me a photocopy of the passport? is this okay? she is saying maybe after time she will give me the passport but at the moment I can only have a photocopy. Apparently everyone who has loaned him has never had the passport nor a photocopy of it.
 
also be aware that you will be restricted on the types of insurance you can get for him.

She really does need to give you the passport though, it is not proof of ownership so keeping it won't protect her from the same happening again anyway.

ETA no a photocopy is not ok, the law is that the passport has to stay with the horse, she has no choice legally.
 
I loaned a mare a week before Xmas last year and I nearly walked away right up until the night before due to the owner not wanting the hand over the passport! Had I turned up on the day and no passport I would have walked away.

I hope the owner comes to her senses and I wish you the best with the loan, I hope he is safe and sound for you. :)
 
Antw23uk said:
I loaned a mare a week before Xmas last year and I nearly walked away right up until the night before due to the owner not wanting the hand over the passport! Had I turned up on the day and no passport I would have walked away.

I hope the owner comes to her senses and I wish you the best with the loan, I hope he is safe and sound for you. :)
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Thank you, I am trying to persuade her telling her it is not proof of ownership ect but she only wants to give me a photocopy of his passport, is this allowed? or do I need the real thing? :)
 
kathantoinette said:
Have a look at the DEFRA website or give their helpline a call. I'm not sure on the most up to date rules but quite a few years ago a friend of mine loaned a horse to someone and sent him with a photocopy of the passport. This was what DEFRA told us back then - If you are travelling the horse, you get a time period (2 hours) to present the passport if you get stopped by Animal Health/DEFRA.
Is the horse vaccinated? You will need the vaccination card for the vets to mark up the vaccinations given - in which case you will need the passport. Or the owner could take it to the vets to be completed after horse has had the jabs. Recently, I loaned a horse and didn't get his passport for a year - the vets gave me evidence of his jabs on paper and then copied all the info into his passport when I got it.
As I say, this is my experience from quite a few years ago so things may have changed and others I'm sure will put you right.
Click to expand...

Do you have the number for the DEFRA helpline? I can't seem to find it on their website :)
 
I don't have the horse yet, the woman who owns him is writing up a contract and has said she will give me a photocopy of the passport until she learns she can trust me enough with the real one after some persuasion.
 
keely2903 said:
Thank you, I am trying to persuade her telling her it is not proof of ownership ect but she only wants to give me a photocopy of his passport, is this allowed? or do I need the real thing? :)
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As I said above, you MUST have the passport with the horse, not a copy.
Phone any equine vet, they will tell you the same. The owner should know this.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
As I said above, you MUST have the passport with the horse, not a copy.
Phone any equine vet, they will tell you the same. The owner should know this.
Click to expand...

Right okay, she is saying I can only have a photocopy for the time being until she knows she can trust me with the real thing. She has said if I ever need it in an emergency for the vet or something that she will travel to me and get it to me..
 
in which case do not accept the horse without the passport. As I said you having it makes no difference to if you could make off with him or not!
 
When I loaned my horse (whom I've now bought) I had a photocopy of the relevant pages of his passport inc. details of vaccinations etc. However, the owner only lived a 10 minute drive away so I could in theory produce the passport within 2 hours. When I bought him, the passport was handed over and I transferred it into my name.

I would definitely check with DEFRA that this is still ok before loaning the horse.

BTW- as ester said, you may well be restricted on types of insurance due to his age. My horse is 17 and I now only have the BHS gold membership to cover me for public liability as the policies I looked at wouldn't cover him for much. I just put money aside each month, just in case a big vets bill arrives!

When I loaned my horse, the owner kept her own insurance on and I paid her a monthly fee to cover it. Don't know what the legalities are with regard to having an insurance policy on something you don't own?

Good luck and I hope you have fun with him x
 
and ps, as fuzzy furry said, ring your local horse vet to advise you re the passport- they have been very helpful to me with regard to passports.
 
Do not accept the horse without the original passport.

You will be most unlikely to be able to get insurance cover for vets fees at his age, at an affordable price.

You need to make sure that the agreement allows you to return the horse with a reasonable notice period and that you are not on the hook to keep and pay for him if he goes lame or needs long term vet treatment.

Like others I am sorry to pour cold water on your dreams but please think again as the likelihood of this costing you a lot of money and heartache is high given the horse's age, size and condition and the fact that you are going into winter - and the owner's attitude on the passport suggests she is not as knowledgeable as all that and there may be things wrong with the horse that she does not even realise. Sorry. Hope I am wrong if you do go ahead. x x
 
Tronk said:
When I loaned my horse (whom I've now bought) I had a photocopy of the relevant pages of his passport inc. details of vaccinations etc. However, the owner only lived a 10 minute drive away so I could in theory produce the passport within 2 hours. When I bought him, the passport was handed over and I transferred it into my name.

I would definitely check with DEFRA that this is still ok before loaning the horse.

BTW- as ester said, you may well be restricted on types of insurance due to his age. My horse is 17 and I now only have the BHS gold membership to cover me for public liability as the policies I looked at wouldn't cover him for much. I just put money aside each month, just in case a big vets bill arrives!

When I loaned my horse, the owner kept her own insurance on and I paid her a monthly fee to cover it. Don't know what the legalities are with regard to having an insurance policy on something you don't own?

Good luck and I hope you have fun with him x
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for your help! She has offered me a photocopy of it and she lives around 45/50 minutes away so could get it to me within 2 hours if needed. I am looking online now at horse insurance and I have one quote for around £20 a month that covers me, the horse, the tack and vet fees.

The insurer asked me if it was my horse or on loan so that must be fine to insure a loaned horse.

Will give DEFRA a call to make sure in the morning.

thanks again x
 
tobiano said:
Do not accept the horse without the original passport.

You will be most unlikely to be able to get insurance cover for vets fees at his age, at an affordable price.

You need to make sure that the agreement allows you to return the horse with a reasonable notice period and that you are not on the hook to keep and pay for him if he goes lame or needs long term vet treatment.

Like others I am sorry to pour cold water on your dreams but please think again as the likelihood of this costing you a lot of pain and heartache is high - and the owner's attitude suggests she is not as knowledgeable as all that and there may be things wrong with the horse that she does not even realise. Sorry. Hope I am wrong. x x
Click to expand...

Just got a quote to cover him, the tack and vet fees for £20 a month, they will insure at his age.

Thanks for your reply, I will keep you all updated as I am going to ring BHS and DEFRA in the morning for their opinions.
x
 
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