Loaning queries.

[05jackd]

I have a nice gelding who I decided to loan/ share earlier in the year due to working full time. I found a quiet rider looking for a new horse after her last horse didn’t work out.

However she is not so knowledgeable on some of the basics and I now find that I am struggling to find time to ride my others as I am ‘teaching’ her about 3 times a week.

Even when I am not teaching all she wants to do is school. Horse is well schooled and will pop a fence nicely. He’s mannerly, safe as houses and has no vices but I am worried that the constant circles will start to make him sour as well as strain him physically. I try to have a balanced lifestyle between schooling, jumping, hacking and other activities to keep them happy. Is it reasonable to lay down rules to say hack at least once a week? We have access to the beach and forestry.

I am also unsure as to who should cover costs for the horse. The horses live at home to no livery. She has unlimited riding and no stable chores. Insurance, tack, vets, feed, farrier and is all payed for by myself. Is this reasonable or what would you expect?

Days are also a bit erratic she might come everyday for a week or might not come for 4-5 days. I usually just get a text on the day but that means it’s difficult for me to plan feeding etc.

I like the girl but feel I am both time and financially worse off for loaning so I must be doing something wrong!

Any wisdom would be welcome!

 

[Melody Grey]

It’s your horse, I think it’s more than reasonable to have some boundaries re: what type of work the horse should be doing, which days etc.
She sounds like she’s on to a really good (too good!) deal there with you!

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Payment varies quite widely - some owners don't ask anything and are happy their horse is getting the extra exercise/attention/chores done. From a sharer perspective I'd be happy to pay a bit more if no chores to do. Equally I'd be happy to do some extra chores in exchange for the time the owner took to teach me things if it would help them out (apart from riding, as an on-going thing I'd want an instructor and think this might be an insurance/licensing issue for people taking payment for lessons without proper cover/qualification).

My previous share I paid £15 per riding day initially as the owner would walk out with me which meant still coming up to the yard for her. When I was confident to go out without her there (in the company of others then eventually by myself it was £10 per riding day). I did not pay if I did not ride. On my days I did all jobs - muck out, poo pick, haynet and feed, bring in (or turn out depending on which end of the day I was there as some assistance was included in the livery).

The owner was retired so did not need set days from me. We had an agreement of 2-3 days per week usually, and sometimes an extra one if I had time off work. We would usually agree the days on a Sunday for the following week which worked fairly well for my work.

I would expect to do as the owner wanted riding wise - this was mostly hacking, then I did get to have a few lessons with an instructor.

Hope this helps.

 

[kc921]

Set out days on which she comes, rather than letting her decide, as that's a good routine to have.
I would say charge her per day that she rides as well, otherwise it sounds like she is getting a horse for free!
Deffo put down some rules about what you from her and what you expect from her (cleaning up after herself, hacking out and schooling etc)
If her knowledge isn't up to standard on some things just talk to her about it.
"I've noticed you are a bit unsure on this and this" perhaps mention about horse care courses that you can do online (cost about £20/£30) for her to do/go through so it's not all on you to teach her.
Good luck!

 

[Cutgrass]

"I've noticed you are a bit unsure on this and this" perhaps mention about horse care courses that you can do online (cost about £20/£30) for her to do/go through so it's not all on you to teach her.
Good luck!

I'd actually carry on showing her how you would like things done. While some horse care is universal, there can be huge variations in how we keep and look after our horses. If you show her what to do then your horse will be getting a consistent approach. Perhaps you could say you're struggling for time and suggest you look at things once a week instead of 3x?

As a loaner I would expect to make a financial contribution, and expect to agree to set days or days as set by the owner. I don't have a formal loan agreement in place with my friend and she doesn't ask for any money but I do ride when she isn't and provide holiday cover, which is what she said she'd find most helpful. If she started asking for a contribution I would happily oblige as I'm benefiting from riding.

 

[WispyBegs]

If you are not keen to charge a daily/weekly fee, I would suggest asking for farrier costs to be paid and some basic chores to be carried out as you should also be benefiting from this loan agreement.

In your circumstance, I would probably give the girl a list of a few freelance instructors who would be willing to give her a few lessons.

 

[throwawayaccount]

as you have a beach nearby you could suggest she schools on the beach, at least then this is technically a hack?

re contributions, you should generally pay the bulk of everything as its only a part loan. if you were on a livery yard the general consensus is £15-25 a week (more depending on area or amount of days) to pop towards livery bill. so, you could ask her to pay towards the bedding if you pay for everything else. or, perhaps the feed or supplements (if any).

supervise her until shes comfortable enough to be left alone- if thats something you want to do, of course. make sure she herself is insured too

 

[teacups]

Part of her learning should be that horses will go sour if they don’t get variety.

I have never paid for any of my shares. But there has to be something in it for everyone concerned.

The owners wanted someone who could be relied on to follow their rules re stable/feed i.e. keep to the horse’s routine, provide extra exercise, and not have to go to the stables on ‘my’ days. A big benefit for them was holiday cover.

For me I learnt stable management; that everyone has different ideas about horse management, and was able to ride ‘private’ horses rather than riding school ones. Riding wise the private horses were all less well schooled than the riding school ones. ETA there was no teaching by the owners but I occasionally had an instructor come - with agreement from the owner - and I paid for that.

A big benefit for me was that I could only do one or two days a week (unless doing the holiday cover) and most people want 3 or 4.

I would have been happy to pay a contribution, either regular or pay for shoes, say, and always offered to.

If you are losing more time/money than you gain, plus your sharer is not managing the horse as you would like, you need to look at the situation, and also have a chat with her, and readjust. It sounds as though on the whole you quite like and trust her - that’s worth a lot too.

I’m now in a position to have a horse of my own. Yikes, as there is still so much I don’t know!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thing is because you have allowed her to sort of dictate to you what she wants to do and for free it's not going to be easy to then lay down the law and ask for payment.

I have had a few sharers that really are pushy and try to do what they want so I just get rid, it's not worth the bother if someone is going to push boundaries all the time it gets tiresome.

You need someone who is going to work with you and be a partnership and to add on the fact your having to teach her for free as well she is getting a bloody good deal, find someone else decide what you want them to do and how much money and establish it from the start.

I have found that some people really do take advantage of the free aspect of riding and can't be reasonable about it, so even a small contribution often gets a bit of respect.

Just wanted to add I have a lovely lady that rides mine for free and has done for 5 years, she is so lovely we really get on and ride together all the time added to the fact she us a very good rider so I don't have to look after her or worry about what she is doing, I trust her totally with my horses.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

It sounds like expectations are not clear. If you have not been explicit and called out the conditions of the loan then the poor loaner is none the wiser.

Have a chat with her, in person. Discuss what is important to you and do it a way that doesn’t make feel like she has done something wrong.

 

[05jackd]

Thanks everyone. It’s really helpful to get everyone’s views as I am driving my OH mad. I think perhaps we just need to go over some of the rules again. Initially it was said he should hack several times a week but this seems to have diminished to none.

She is very timid so I don’t want to hurt her feelings. It’s not like she’s doing anything wrong. It’s just not working in a way to benefit me I suppose and that does sound selfish.

It’s difficult to categorise what the loan is. I don’t ride him due to time and I suppose that’s what annoys me a bit as well as she will not come if it’s raining or she has other plans but I still do all the care side regardless of how busy I am or the weather (as an owner I understand that’s my job). Same when he went lame due to an abscess. She didn’t come at all and it was just given I would sort him out and hand back a sound horse. But as she just turns up rides and leaves I am unsure if this is just ignorance is bliss.

I want to be kind but I’m just not sure where to draw the best line for both of us.

 

[smolmaus]

I'm getting the impression she is quite young? Personally I could forgive taking the P a little bit if she is like 18 but if she is a proper adult she should really be expected to realise that she is getting by far the better end of this deal.

 

[kc921]

To me that does sound like she is just taking piss a little
If she doesn't come up and see him when it's raining or if she has other plans, it sounds like she doesn't care too much about the actual horse.

My horse went lame due to an abscess and my sharer still wanted to come up on her share days (even after I'd said to her she didn't have to) just to spend time with him and groom him

It's not selfish of you to expect certain things from her as that's what a share is for.... To help the owner.

Personally I would talk to her about all of this and if she doesn't react well or continues as she is I would end the share and find someone who will appreciate not only you but your horse as well.

 

[05jackd]

I'm getting the impression she is quite young? Personally I could forgive taking the P a little bit if she is like 18 but if she is a proper adult she should really be expected to realise that she is getting by far the better end of this deal.

Yes she’s only 19. So I’m thinking it’s ignorance is bliss.

 

[teddypops]

Thanks everyone. It’s really helpful to get everyone’s views as I am driving my OH mad. I think perhaps we just need to go over some of the rules again. Initially it was said he should hack several times a week but this seems to have diminished to none.

She is very timid so I don’t want to hurt her feelings. It’s not like she’s doing anything wrong. It’s just not working in a way to benefit me I suppose and that does sound selfish.

It’s difficult to categorise what the loan is. I don’t ride him due to time and I suppose that’s what annoys me a bit as well as she will not come if it’s raining or she has other plans but I still do all the care side regardless of how busy I am or the weather (as an owner I understand that’s my job). Same when he went lame due to an abscess. She didn’t come at all and it was just given I would sort him out and hand back a sound horse. But as she just turns up rides and leaves I am unsure if this is just ignorance is bliss.

I want to be kind but I’m just not sure where to draw the best line for both of us.

If you agreed to hacking several times a week and she is not doing this, then she is doing something wrong.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It isn't working for you. I personally would stop that arrangement. I have been through it all before and now I'd rather have mine in the field doing nothing than have the 'wrong' sharer/rider.

It has often been discussed on here about when a sharer should pay or not pay. I feel that it depends on who is getting what from the arrangement. At the moment you are giving a lot (understatement as she's getting free riding, free instruction, no chores) and she is giving hardly anything (doesn't turn up when it rains or she has something better to do, only rides in the school, isn't improving the horse or even maintaining the schooling level, in fact you are worried about the horse physically and mentally). She should be paying you, following your instructions and committing to regular times even if it's wet and get out of the school.

Are you just being her unpayed groom while she is being lady of the manor? It's certainly how the balance of power feels from your post anyway. I think this is the root of why you are unhappy, you are doing all the giving and she is doing all the taking.

 

[Melody Grey]

It sounds to me like a lack of boundaries or at least the communication of them; as a loaner/sharer she might not know what is expected. As the owner, I think you need to make it clear what you expect in terms of time/ reliability/ money.
Perhaps if things were clarified, it could continue to work well for both of you? I’d certainly try this before moving on.