Loaning visit :( WWYD

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Frazzle

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In a bit of a dilema here and dont want to be hasty but this is really stressing me out and would like some advice before I take the next step.

Basically last summer I was approached by a friend of a friend as we had a 7yo pony mare and we were asked if we would loan her out with view to buy, she was going to be a child's pony and they would be doing the whole breaking in/ridden thing with her. They have other ponies, their own place etc so we agreed to let her go. There was a BHS style loan agreement put in place with the buy/extend lease decision to be made in a year's time.
Over the months anytime we asked how she was coming on under saddle there was always an excuse why she wasnt started (basically the child had got an older experienced pony and time seemed to be getting spent on her). fair enough I can understand that. I visited a couple of times and was happy enough with how she was looking.
Fast forward to yesterday we were in the area so popped in. We had been told her mane had been rubbed a little by the rug, hmmm a little! she basically has no mane left, this pony does not rub btw so no sweet itch. They took her rugs off, she has been clipped but her coat looked bloody awful, dull & fuzzy. She was in a (dried) mud field with little grass and no shelter. Her body condition was fine but she looks a state.
I just cannot get my head round how a pony who is being ridden regularly as she allegedly now is & would therefore regularly need her rugs removed be looking like this.
Have owned this pony since a foal and know her well and this was not her.
It was impossible to chat yesterday as her kids were being 'demanding' . we did ask to see her being ridden but were fobbed off and got shown a couple of pics on a camera.
So what now? Any phone call to the loaner is constantly interrupted by her kids. feel like sending a message asking for a call when she is free. Do we give a time limit and say we want to see an improvement voicing our concerns, do we bring her home or what do you suggest.
I know its been a long winter but she just looked so dull in all ways.
 
What are her feet like?

It has been a hell of a winter, lots of people have little grass including us. If her body weight looks ok I would not be too worried, was she happy or miserable?

Honestly it has been a long winter. Would give the person 2 weeks and then revisit. Give her notice so she can keep the kids occupied/ looked after rather than just arriving.
 
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On what basis would you bring her home without breaching the contract? if her condition is fine just a dull coat (sorry if I've missed something)
Did the loan agreement say they would have to break her/ ride her for you?
Have you asked them whether they want to buy her at the end of the loan?
Would you want her back now/ then if they didn't want to buy?

A quick call to say when is a good time for me to come over next week and have a proper chat (face to face) sounds like it's worth it.
If they are planning on giving the pony back anyway you could discuss her coming back earlier than the date in the agreement so you can break her/ rider her away a bit and still sell in the early summer when ponies are in demand.

My companion pony looks an absolute state after this winter despite my considerable efforts! so it may just be time of year.
 
You need to speak to the loaner - do as you suggest and ask her when she's free. Explain you'd really like to see how she's coming on, and arrange a time to down and see her ridden. Explain that you are concerned she isn't coming on as she ought to, as per the agreement, and that you'll like to see where she's got to.

Decide in advance what exactly it is that's worrying you, and exactly what you want. Do you want her home? Or - as it was LWVTB - are you concerned that her education is being neglected and you'll need to sort that out before you can find another home for her? It's really hard to tell without pictures, but lots of horses look pretty dire at this time of year, and mane loss can happen even with regular rug removal and grooming, and if her bodyweight and feet are okay, you know they're at least looking after her. If you know you aren't happy for them to continue the loan or buy the mare, then terminate the contract and bring her home. Otherwise, you need to reach an agreement about how they're going to progress with her.
 
Polos Mum said:
On what basis would you bring her home without breaching the contract? if her condition is fine just a dull coat (sorry if I've missed something)
Did the loan agreement say they would have to break her/ ride her for you?
they approached us as the pony was a big prizewinner in hand and they wanted something good to bring out under saddle
have you asked them whether they want to buy her at the end of the loan?
yes, that was included in the original discussion, the option is to buy or extend the lease
Would you want her back now/ then if they didn't want to buy?
she can come home anytime

A quick call to say when is a good time for me to come over next week and have a proper chat (face to face) sounds like it's worth it.
we had said we would possibly be popping in and we did phone an hour or so before to check it was convenient



If they are planning on giving the pony back anyway you could discuss her coming back earlier than the date in the agreement so you can break her/ rider her away a bit and still sell in the early summer when ponies are in demand.
the way they were talking they are happy enough with her and seem to have future plans for her
My companion pony looks an absolute state after this winter despite my considerable efforts! so it may just be time of year.
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this pony has always looked well in herself, she is currently in at night and is supposed to be getting up and ready for the season
 
Theocat I think that is our plan, just need to bounce off some impartial peeps.
The pony's body and feet etc are fine its just all the little things and she was just so dull, not like at her at all as she was always full of herself.
Ive ended a loan agreement early before when people didnt look after a pony properly, Ive also loaned ponies and they were treated as though they were my own, probably better as I was terrified anything happened to them as they werent mine.
 
I'm a big believer in gut feeling, so if you aren't happy, and aren't able to have a proper (as in without being interrupted by children) conversation with the loaner then I would be bringing her home ASAP.
 
Agree, trust your gut instinct, her welfare comes first and if you are uncomfortable with the arrangements and she isn't progressing or looking right then.......
 
There's a few hints in your OP that you don't think much of the behaviour of the children.

So if they aren't well behaved away from the pony, what makes you believe they are well behaved with the pony?

And if they are the ones riding, then I personally would expect them to be interested in showing what they do and courteous to the owner of their riding pony.

Just saying.
 
If you are not happy take pony back.

Although pony isnt being neglected, She deserves more care and attention.

If they are too busy with other pony, they dont have the time they thought they would have for her.


Send a message age them to call you when they dont have noisy kids around, voice your concerns and see what they say.
 
Bring her home.
We are loaning a very green pony who was only broken last year.We are very conscious that he is learning all the time,whether we intend it or not,so are very careful how he is handled and ridden.His career will be as a child's pony so for him to have a good future,we have to do things right.I text his owner every day with what we have done/where we have ridden ect and she has met up with us at rallies,for a hack and so on.It is a huge responsibilty because if we get it wrong and mess him up,it could have very bad repercussions for his future ridden life-there are too many messed up ponies out there.

It doesn't sound like your loaners have done much at all and have little respect for the fact that you have lent them a much loved pony.
 
Polos Mum said:
On what basis would you bring her home without breaching the contract?
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OP I assume most loan templates are the same, I loan a horse and the agreement says either party can give one months notice to terminate the loan. Neither of us have to give reason. If her owner wants her back she has every right to give me 1 months notice and take her. I'm pretty sure our contract also says if she is not happy with the care of the horse she can take her straight away. It is her horse after all.

If you are unhappy about the situation I would take the pony back. From your posts you sound very suspicious of them, and once you feel this way it will be very hard for them to change your mind.
 
My friend put her pony on loan when she went to visit what she had thought to be a very nice yard the owner was out ,walking round the yard she found all the evening feeds had been made,stale bread and sour potato peeling,she came to me we hitched up the trailer and an hour later the horse was home. I have looked after horses for other people and have always given them back to there owners looking better than when they came ,I am sure that horses don nt tell lies if they look miserable its because they are . It has been a long hard winter ,but horses that are fed ,even living out should still have a healthy looking coat ,and be bright looking, if you are not happy with the condition of the pony take her home
 
shergar said:
My friend put her pony on loan when she went to visit what she had thought to be a very nice yard the owner was out ,walking round the yard she found all the evening feeds had been made,stale bread and sour potato peeling,she came to me we hitched up the trailer and an hour later the horse was home. I have looked after horses for other people and have always given them back to there owners looking better than when they came ,I am sure that horses don nt tell lies if they look miserable its because they are . It has been a long hard winter ,but horses that are fed ,even living out should still have a healthy looking coat ,and be bright looking, if you are not happy with the condition of the pony take her home
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Your friend was lucky not be sued for breach of contract!

My TB doesn't look great at the moment. He's well enough in himself but always looks mangy & is a bit down when his summer coat is coming through not helped by the weather and loooong winter. He is however very well fed so I have to disagree with some of what you have written.

OP - it's your pony, if you're not happy; either give notice to take him back or give the loaner a defined period to make you happy with the pony's condition in writing or you will take back.
 
Nicnac said:
Your friend was lucky not be sued for breach of contract!

My TB doesn't look great at the moment. He's well enough in himself but always looks mangy & is a bit down when his summer coat is coming through not helped by the weather and loooong winter. He is however very well fed so I have to disagree with some of what you have written.

OP - it's your pony, if you're not happy; either give notice to take him back or give the loaner a defined period to make you happy with the pony's condition in writing or you will take back.
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Do you not think that the loanee broke the contract by feeding it stale bread and potato peelings!
Personally if a pony of mine was being neglected in anyway either physically or mentally I would not be worrying about breaking a contract...All mine are out and even my TB isnt looking dull in his coat, if he was I would be looking at my management of him.
 
Nicnac said:
Your friend was lucky not be sued for breach of contract!

My TB doesn't look great at the moment. He's well enough in himself but always looks mangy & is a bit down when his summer coat is coming through not helped by the weather and loooong winter. He is however very well fed so I have to disagree with some of what you have written.

OP - it's your pony, if you're not happy; either give notice to take him back or give the loaner a defined period to make you happy with the pony's condition in writing or you will take back.
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I think the breech of contract was in the feeding potatoes and bread but even if a loan contract is broken what or who would benefit from suing and what would you expect in compensation, unless it is a top class competition horse any compensation would be so small it would not be worth suing over.
 
It also depends on the contract. When mine were on loan my contracts stated that I/loaner would give 1 months notice to terminate the loan, with the exception being that if I felt the horse was not being cared for satisfactorily then the loan would be terminated with immediate effect. In fact one of the loans was terminated in such a manner.

OP personally I would be checking up a little more often and if I still wasn't happen I would terminate the loan.
 
Call me suspicious but if they're loaning with a view to buy, could they maybe be trying to force the price of the pony down? It looks a bit rough, it's not been schooled on but we do want it and we've got attached to it so we'll give you £xxxx.xx less than what you're asking for it?

If you're not happy, serve notice and take it back. I wouldn't even be asking opinions if I were in your shoes!
 
I actually don't think what you saw necessitates removal of the pony. It is reasonable that a clipped pony won't be looking at her best coat-wise at the moment, and the field is an inevitability in some areas after the last 12 months, the important thing would be if she is getting sufficient quality and quantity forage.

I think I would arrange to go and visit again soon, in the next week and pre-arrange that you would like to see her being worked. It gives you a chance to check if she was just tired that day, or of she r really is not her usual self.
 
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