Loans to move yards / owners with horses who are stabled with their rider

[LadyGascoyne]

I am considering allowing Mimosa to move to a different yard, as part of an arrangement to allow someone else to ride and compete on her.

It’s not a loan, as I will retain responsibility for her livery, insurance, tack, vet, physio, dentist etc.

It would be an offer for someone to ride Mim for a financial contribution, with an option to move to a yard convenient to them but within an easy distance for both me and her current pro rider, who will continue to ride her once a week at my cost.

I have put in the ad that I will vet yards.

For those who have horses out on loan at other yards, what do you take into consideration? And what do you think reasonable objections are? I have turnout in winter as one factor but I want to ensure I am thinking widely.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Kia went to Inverness when I loaned him out when I was made redundant, pretty much the other end of the country to me. I kept his insurance under my name and reported to the passport agency that he was on loan and I downloaded and personalised the BHS contract to suit my restrictions on his activities and specifics with his care. I transported him and saw the yard then we signed everything once both of us were happy. He was there for about 8/9 months before the loaner handed him back as she hurt herself and couldn’t ride anymore.

Everything that went with him was photographed and catalogued and a list was attached to both loan copies.

I found it was a pretty easy thing to do.

 

[Surbie]

My horse's previous owner, when he was on loan to me, checked the first yard I was moving him to thoroughly, met with the yard manager, went through the turnout options (compromise here from 24/7 to overnight turnout), checked the feed storage, fields, fencing and onsite safety (cameras etc). Also looked at the school surface. She also came twice in the first 6 months to check - probably would have come more but I sent her a lot of updates and photos (!). Their concerns were making sure no one else, bar an instructor, would ride him, the tack was cleaned regularly and saddle was checked regularly. We photographed everything - though it turned out the tree in his saddle was poorly welded and about to break on the first check. The loan went well - though I would say that as I still have the horse, but he's mine now.

 

[Leandy]

And what do you think reasonable objections are? I have turnout in winter as one factor but I want to ensure I am thinking widely.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this point. It is your horse, you have an absolute veto on where he moves to. You need to be completely comfortable with it so there isn't a question of what is reasonable or not. I have a pony out on loan at another yard. I look at the package as a whole, am I happy with the general standards of care and how they plan to keep the pony ie feed, turn out, amount of work etc etc, am I happy that all people concerned (loaner and yard) are sufficiently experienced to keep the pony to a standard I'm happy with and sufficiently sensible to know when to communicate with me etc etc. The thing which stands out to me from your post is that the way you describe it, it isn't really clear what the arrangements are as between you and the two people riding? Who on a day to day basis calls the shots and makes the decisions, is that still you or is it the rider whose convenience the horse is moved for? Is that clear to all what must be communicated to who and when? This looks like a loan (albeit that you are still covering costs) to the rider with also a condition that a professional rides the horse once a week. Is that right or are you aiming to retain more control?

 

[ihatework]

It doesn’t sound like a loan, it sounds like a rider subsidised full/competition livery.

I’ve got an event horse out on loan, I’m happy to send you the contract as there might be elements of that you can lift.

The only thing I would say, is once a rider has some financial skin in the game, you do need a level of flexibility for their management. Yes you are the owner ultimately but they will be invested too.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I'm not sure I'm understanding this point. It is your horse, you have an absolute veto on where he moves to. You need to be completely comfortable with it so there isn't a question of what is reasonable or not. I have a pony out on loan at another yard. I look at the package as a whole, am I happy with the general standards of care and how they plan to keep the pony ie feed, turn out, amount of work etc etc, am I happy that all people concerned (loaner and yard) are sufficiently experienced to keep the pony to a standard I'm happy with and sufficiently sensible to know when to communicate with me etc etc. The thing which stands out to me from your post is that the way you describe it, it isn't really clear what the arrangements are as between you and the two people riding? Who on a day to day basis calls the shots and makes the decisions, is that still you or is it the rider whose convenience the horse is moved for? Is that clear to all what must be communicated to who and when? This looks like a loan (albeit that you are still covering costs) to the rider with also a condition that a professional rides the horse once a week. Is that right or are you aiming to retain more control?

I just wanted to get a feel for the kinds of things people take into consideration, and to make sure I am being fair but thorough.

The arrangements are made clear in the advert but I didn’t want to post the full ad here as I presume we aren’t allowed to.

I will continue to act as the owner, and I will carry the responsibility of paying for full livery and all of the horse’s costs. Horse has been schooled by a professional GP dressage rider, and I’d like her to continue to have one session a week of professional schooling.

The rider would have the full use of a lovely, well-schooled, full-liveried horse, to hack, do dressage and compete if they like. They would also have the option of lessons with the professional rider, who is a great coach.

They would be asked to pay a contribution towards the keep of the horse, have their own insurance and to cover the costs of any competitions that they’d like to take the horse to.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

It doesn’t sound like a loan, it sounds like a rider subsidised full/competition livery.

I’ve got an event horse out on loan, I’m happy to send you the contract as there might be elements of that you can lift.

The only thing I would say, is once a rider has some financial skin in the game, you do need a level of flexibility for their management. Yes you are the owner ultimately but they will be invested too.

Yes that’s exactly what I was thinking - I need to be flexible because the rider will feel invested too. I want to ensure I’m asking the right questions but I’m not being overbearing.

Did you use the BHS contract or is yours custom? I have the BHS one but the arrangement I am proposing is less of a loan and more of an opportunity to ride and compete in exchange for a contribution. More akin to the American lease system, I suppose.

 

[ihatework]

I based mine on the BHS but adapted heavily as the loaner is a YR on the world class program so theoretically adding significant value and paying for the Privilage of running my horse!

 

[BBP]

If only I was a better rider I would be putting my hand up! (Although I’m also too far away so a moot point ?)

 

[Tiddlypom]

It does sound like more of a lease than a loan.

To protect the leasers input into the horse, can you insert a clause pre agreeing Mim's value as of now and stating that the leaser would keep all or part of any uplift in value if Mim ever was to be sold? I did similar when I loaned my mare out.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I based mine on the BHS but adapted heavily as the loaner is a YR on the world class program so theoretically adding significant value and paying for the Privilage of running my horse!

That could also be another way of doing it for us - more of a competition loan - but I think your horse sounds more talented than mine!

Mine is lovely but she’s really just a nice ride for someone who wants to ride a fun, well-mannered horse but doesn’t want the responsibility.

 

[ihatework]

That could also be another way of doing it for us - more of a competition loan - but I think your horse sounds more talented than mine!

Mine is lovely but she’s really just a nice ride for someone who wants to ride a fun, well-mannered horse but doesn’t want the responsibility.

If you want to see contract send me your email, as there will be relevant bits irrespective - i.e.uplift clauses

 

[LadyGascoyne]

If only I was a better rider I would be putting my hand up! (Although I’m also too far away so a moot point ?)

I would be thrilled to send her to you but I’d miss her too much!

It does sound like more of a lease than a loan.

To protect the leasers input into the horse, can you insert a clause pre agreeing Mim's value as of now and stating that the leaser would keep all or part of any uplift in value if Mim ever was to be sold? I did similar when I loaned my mare out.

I think that could get complicated given that I will still want her schooled professionally alongside anyone who rides her.

I would prefer to agree it as an opportunity to ride a nice horse, with a financial contribution. Like a sharer but with the option for me to move the horse closer to the rider.

 

[TheMule]

Does the person that schools her maybe have a client suitable? I think this might work best through word of mouth as it's quite a complex arrangement

 

[teapot]

I'd be trying to find someone close enough Mim doesn't have to move yards given the complexities

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is having your pro rider riding her on one day a week non negotiable?

Depending on how much you thinking of asking for in payment from the leaser, that could be quite a stumbling block for someone who would like to lease Mim. It could feel that they were continually being assessed. You also are wanting to remain as an involved owner. Though, as said above, maybe it could work with someone already known to the pro rider?

 

[chaps89]

Wishing I wasn’t moving further away (not that I’m necessarily a good enough rider anyway!)
It sounds a great opportunity, I’d definitley try and find someone through word of mouth if you can.
References from vets/farriers/instructors/YO that know the loaner would be essential in my view.
Have a think about what’s negotiable (things they absolutely must or must do) and things that maybe you’d like them doing a certain way but could live/no harm is really done if they’re not. The non-negotiable go in the contract.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Is having your pro rider riding her on one day a week non negotiable?

Depending on how much you thinking of asking for in payment from the leaser, that could be quite a stumbling block for someone who would like to lease Mim. It could feel that they were continually being assessed. You also are wanting to remain as an involved owner. Though, as said above, maybe it could work with someone already known to the pro rider?

Ideally I would want to keep the continuity for her and to support her development. If someone was sharing her, they’d need to accept the fact that someone else was riding on the days where they weren’t.

I am envisioning it being a situation where the horse is kept on full livery, ridden once a week by a pro, and the rider can arrive, have a nice horse to have lessons on etc, and to take to shows if they want to.

The only difference between a full livery with a sharer would really be that I’m ok for her to move to a different livery yard because I don’t have the facilities at home so I’d be putting her on livery anyway, and it makes sense to put her closer to the person who will be riding her the most.

 

[Palindrome]

you can advertise for a sharer with option to move yard and compete. If the pro rider has a yard, it could perhaps work well to have the horse there?

 

[sky1000]

My tuppence worth is that they'd have to keep us up-dated on lovely Mimosa

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Do you not have the facilities? Is that why you’re offering to move her yards?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

you can advertise for a sharer with option to move yard and compete. If the pro rider has a yard, it could perhaps work well to have the horse there?

Yes it’s definitely an option to have her either on my usual livery yard or at my rider’s but I thought it might be more appealing to riders to have her somewhere convenient to them.

Do you not have the facilities? Is that why you’re offering to move her yards?

Yes, I have hacking and field to school in at home but no proper school or indoor for winter.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Can I ask why? Sorry I don’t really know the back ground other than having seen stunning photos of her!
It just seems odd to me to pay so much money for a horse for someone else to have the fun with.

 

[Roxylola]

I think you could do with speaking to your pro. It's an excellent opportunity for someone but they need to be happy with your pro rider so someone they suggest would be your best bet imo.

 

[Squeak]

What's the reason for not going for a full loan where they cover her costs or a share? You can get plenty of good riders who'd love to have a horse on full loan and be willing to be flexible re the pro riding once a week. I had my schoolmaster on loan with the proviso they had a certain number of lessons a month with my trainer and continued using my vets. If you were up front about how involved you want to be then it shouldn't be an issue.

Putting her on full livery would potentially put a lot of capable riders off who enjoy looking after the horse as well as riding and cost you a huge amount. I'm not sure if I'm missing the point but I'm just not getting what you'd get out of it?

Otherwise, would a share not be simpler where they ride x days a week and pay a contribution?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

LG does want a financial contribution with this arrangement so she wouldn't be paying everything for someone else to enjoy the horse for nothing!

I don't think I a few of you have read the original post.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think you are best advertising it as a share with the option to compete and move yards if necessary. Explain in the advert that you want an experienced/competitive rider. And that they can have up to 6 out of 7 days, if they wish- bearing in mind that she will be ridden by the pro on the 7th day, so they would not be able to ride every one of the 6 days. If she's on full livery, then theoretically someone could share for less days also, as she would still be looked after on the other days, but some people might want the option to spend bonding time with her etc.

I think if you want someone seriously competitive, then you might have to accept they might wish to make some changes (e.g. tack, feed etc maybe?) in order to achieve the best performance? But if you found the right person, then that could be open to discussion later down the line?

It's the wrong time of year, perhaps, but I wonder if someone who's into showing might be a good option, as they would probably appreciate the professional schooling and being ridden by a different rider sometimes- perhaps moreso than someone who's solely dressage focused? (Although as others have said a student of the GP rider, if they have them, might be a good option too).

I do think the value uplift thing is difficult- it would probably only come into play if someone started getting serious results on her, but just say (for example) someone took her out county showing and got decent results- that would significantly increase her value and someone *might* feel miffed if you then sold her for the higher value (but they might not, if they got a horse to compete who they couldn't otherwise afford). But it's perhaps something to discuss with individuals.

Anyway, the point of all that is to say I'd advertise it as "share/part loan with the option to compete/move yards" and then just specify in the advert exactly what you are offering and what you'd like in return! I'm sure the right person is out there who would love this opportunity and be willing to fit in with what you want?

ETA: Would she have to be on livery somewhere? Just wondering if someone who had e.g. retired horses/facilities at home etc would be an option. Obviously you'd have to be happy with the standard of care on offer, but just a thought?

 

[Starzaan]

Following my accident I have had to put one of mine out on loan as he is so tricky, has to be kept in work, and I am verrrry fussy about who rides him.
He has gone to a very experienced friend who couldn’t afford to buy a horse of his calibre, and is having an absolute ball.
I was very clear about my dos and don’ts. -
- never to have a haynet unless on a lorry, only ever ad lib haylage from the floor
- no changes of bit (mostly because he tends to hospitalise people who mess around with bitting)
- turnout EVERY DAY in a herd, absolutely no exceptions unless injury dictates otherwise.
- must stay on the same diet

It was all fairly straightforward and I’ve loved seeing him out having fun with someone while I’m too broken to ride.

 

[maya2008]

Could she livery with your trainer and then look for someone from there?