Long sloping pasterns on 3 year old

[Reindeer Rider]

Hi there,

I'm not sure I am in the right place, maybe breeding or training may be more appropriate - let me know.

My 3 year old, small warmblood type (GRP cross) had her vaccinations recently and I asked the vet to take a look at her hind fetlocks as they looked low to me.

She said "'horse has long sloping pasterns behind creating significant fetlock drop and tension on the plantar aspect of the limb. She has just been backed and is hacking out 2-3 times a week. Recommend considering Equitop Myoplast to help her muscle up and strengthen her core in order to compensate for poor distal limb conformation. Recommend x-raying feet to ensure optimal shoeing before her workload increases further in order to support fetlock as much as possible. Discussed possibility of increased injury risk, equally she may never have any issues which limit her athletic capacity."

My farrier thinks the fetlocks will improve as she comes into work, says he does not need an xray as can see where bones will be etc, but will monitor them when trimming every 6 weeks.


She is doing two 40(ish) minutes hack a week, walking with a short trot .

1) She long-reins and wondered if anyone had any good ideas for exercises to help strengthen her core etc..
2) has anyone had any experience of this in their youngster. Did it improve?
3) Do you have experience of Equitop Myoplast ?

I have heard mixed reviews on the Equitop Myoplast, and as it's so expensive, so I the jury is still out on that.

I should point out that she moves beautifully and is destined to be my riding club horse, mainly dressage, maybe some low level jumping on good ground.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Can you post some photos of her legs (a whole body confo shod would be useful too)? Get the camera nice and low for close ups, so there's no distortion from 'looking down' on her pasterns. Does she have a lot of TB in her breeding? What are her Dam and Sire's pasterns like?

Is she just three, or rising four?

 

[Reindeer Rider]

Thanks Faracat,

She will be 3 on 11th May. I wouldn't say she has alot of TB. Her sire is FS Champion De luxe, there is some TB in his background. Pasterns look fine on parents.
Dam is my riding club horse, of unknown breeding. I will take some pictures of the youngster and post them. I should have some of mum.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The photos would be very helpful - a photo of her Dam too would be good.

She is very young and she should grow into her pasterns to some extent (exactly how much - I don't know). I have to say, if she was mine, I'd turn her away to mature.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf This is well worth reading.

ETA - I asked about the TB as they can have long pasterns compared to other breeds.

 

[Reindeer Rider]

This is the Dam



I can't find a good confo shot of FS CHampion de luxe. the following You Tube clip has a fairly good shot of him standing still.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ars2_fs-champion-de-luxe_animals

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Oh gosh, whenever I see a Seal Brown horse I miss my old mare... back on topic, I don't see abnormally long or low pasterns there.

 

[Tiddlypom]

2) has anyone had any experience of this in their youngster. Did it improve?.

Yes, I have (I bought him as an unbroken rising 3yo). I'm afraid that it didn't end well, though it took another 7 years to play out. His suspensories gave out .

How low do the fetlocks sink when she is moving?

I would not be subjecting her to the weight of a rider just yet, if she has a weakness.

The dam seems to have sturdy enough looking fetlock/pastern angles.

 

[Reindeer Rider]

I have no idea why the photo's are blue - lol

The pasterns don't look too bad when she stands up properly, but as you can see, when she is at ease, they look worse.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The pasterns don't look too bad when she stands up properly, but as you can see, when she is at ease, they look worse.

I see what you mean.

Someone more experienced than me may be along in a bit with more advice, but I suggest that you continue to liaise closely with your vet and farrier. I definitely wouldn't be riding her now. Have you videoed her when she's moving? It would be informative to see how low the pasterns drop in motion.

I have to say that her pasterns look weaker than those in my lad.

 

[TheMule]

I wouldnt be working her for another year, putting more strain on these fragile structures is likely to make things much worse IMHO. Lots of turnout, not too much protein (def no Equitop Myoplast!) and hopefully she'll grow into herself

 

[cptrayes]

She has plenty of muscle and I can't see why your vet is recommending a muscle builder. As for myoplast itself, it is being heavily pushed by vets at the moment yet it is a completely untested supplement with no scientific backing - I got that direct from the makers in an e-mail when I asked them. What it does have in it, which has been proved to work, is spirulina, but it's an expensive way of feeding it, and I was told on a thread I posted about myoplast last year that lysine will work just as well.


I know of one horse with pasterns that were like that and I'm sorry but it's not a good ending He was broken at three and brought on very, very slowly. Every time he was asked to exert himself he got abnormally tired. His hind legs got straighter and straighter too. Finally, at seven, he lost muscle tone dramatically and was put down, undiagnosed as to what the problem was, but for me he was a definite case of EPSA/DSLD

 

[keeperscottage]

I worry about the long sloping pasterns on our boy - had him since 5 months old, he's rising eight now. Selle Francais x warmblood. Here he is.....

 

[TPO]

You can't change what she was born with so personally I'd get informed as possible so that you have the information to work with/around her needs at a later date.

Currently I'd find a field, preferably hilly and varied terrain, and turn her away to grow and mature. I wouldn't be riding and/or working this horse at this time/age.

I definitely wouldn't feed myoplast. You can't feed to develop a strong core and to work for it is putting strain and wear on her immature legs/body. You also don't want her top heavy for that reason.

Personally I wouldn't be looking to shoe her, let alone "remedially", as to make her what we would call "better" will throw the rest of her out of alignment. I'd let her grow, have and use the feet she needs to cope; these may be "ugly" feet with mechanical flares etc but if she grows it then it's there for a reason.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The only thing that you can is turning her away and let her mature. Remedial shoeing and supplements wont change her conformation. I agree with TPO a hilly field/varied terrain (not on rich grass or too much grass - you don't want laminitis) would be best and i would try to not stable her at all unless you have no choice or are just bringing her in for a quick check/groom.

With my grey the tendons and ligaments in her legs definitely continued to strengthen and 'harden' for a long time. You know how when you pick out a foals hoof and everything feels all loose and wobbly so you have to hold the hoof carefully so that you have something to push against while you scrape out the mud? With an adult horse, you can grab the foot loosely and push quite hard to get a stuck stone out as all the structures from the fetlock down have so much more strength to them, so are self supporting. Well I felt that with the grey, she didn't get that full adult feeling until she was five and I'm sure that she's continued to strengthen after that, it's just that the changes were smaller and harder for me to notice. I hope that this makes sense.

 

[Heelfirst]

This can be a problem when horses are ridden before they have developed.
First thing is the beam structure of the back, it is not really meant to take any weight, so we are stuffed before we start.
If (and it is more common than we realise) there is any defect, discomfort or obesity in early life a horse will learn to track-up with the hinds to help relieve weight off the forelimb (s), this in turn leads to the heel collapsing and the toe to appear long when in fact there has been contra. Rotation of P3 so there is no wall to remove.
IMO the best cure is to hope that you have caught it in time and to turn the horse away, concentrate on the nutrition, condition and trimming, and then start afresh after a year

 

[Meowy Catkin]

HF - quite right, regular, good trimming to keep the hooves balanced is a must.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Lots of good advice already, but please can I add another prompt to keep her on the lean side of good condition. The lighter she is, the less leverage there will be on those weak pasterns.

My lad didn't actually show up as lame until he was 7, though in hindsight a lot of training 'niggles' were probably early signs of discomfort. His 6 year old year was the best and I thought we had cracked it (won his RC area dressage qualifier and placed individually at the RC nationals).

He was retired aged 7 (insurance paid out loss of use) and PTS aged 10 as the hind fetlock joints was collapsing . The vet said he had only ever previously seen such damage in elderly broodmares.

I backed him myself and brought him on very slowly. He was sat on at 3, hacked as a 4yo then started flatwork and jumping age 5.

Sorry for such a gloomy post, but you have asked for advice and comments, and I very much hope that you have a better outcome with your youngster.

 

[Reindeer Rider]

This can be a problem when horses are ridden before they have developed.
First thing is the beam structure of the back, it is not really meant to take any weight, so we are stuffed before we start.
If (and it is more common than we realise) there is any defect, discomfort or obesity in early life a horse will learn to track-up with the hinds to help relieve weight off the forelimb (s), this in turn leads to the heel collapsing and the toe to appear long when in fact there has been contra. Rotation of P3 so there is no wall to remove.
IMO the best cure is to hope that you have caught it in time and to turn the horse away, concentrate on the nutrition, condition and trimming, and then start afresh after a year

Are you saying this has been caused by her being backed?

She lives out 24/7 in on a hilly field. Has Adlib haylege over winter months. Has vitamins and minerals daily.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

KC - do you have a fully side on photo of your chestnut?

 

[Heelfirst]

Far from it, I am saying it was properly caused long before she was backed.
Backing her just made you aware of the deviation, if backing was the cause the farrier would have been aware of the changes.

 

[keeperscottage]

Faracat - this one okay?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That is better KC.

If you compare him to this TB (photo plucked from google) you can see that your boys pasterns aren't as long as those. The TB certainly doesn't have low fetlocks when standing still as in the photo. If you took him jumping though, the fetlocks would probably touch the floor as he landed after a jump. This is not a problem, unusual or abnormal though, the pasterns and their joints are really natural 'shock absorbers' in the horse's legs. Which is why they should be assessed with the horse standing still with it's weight evenly distributed. When walking you should see some shock absorption, but you wouldn't want the fetlocks dropping too low in that low shock pace.

Too upright pasterns mean that the horse cannot absorb shock in the same way, which is also a bad thing.

With your horse, he doesn't seem to have a matched pair of hooves on the fores (it could be the shadow distracting me) but a look at his hoof balance IRL would be worth doing. I see a broken hoof/pastern angle on the OF and an under-run heel/long toe on the NF in that photo. You do have to be careful with adult horses as forcing them to have a pair of hooves if they, for example, have one leg longer than the other, can cause problems. He's also standing under himself (forelegs aren't vertical) which is something that mine did when she had a bit of thrush. If he always does it, rather than it just being an awkward photo, check for any pain/soreness in the caudal hoof.

Really with a horse that doesn't have ideal conformation (and even with ones that are close to perfection), the best you can do is to reduce things like concussion (EG no hammering down the roads, especially if they are shod which increases concussion).

 

[keeperscottage]

Faracat, your post was most informative - thank you! I'll PM you within the next day or so, when I get a free moment (a rarity, ha ha!)! KC