Long term loan

[franhyde]

I've had my horse on long term loan for the past 11 years, the owner now wants him back. I wonder if I have any legal rights to ownership. He's now 24, fit, healthy and happy, I believe he's to old to travel 6 hours to her home, and he will not be ridden as much when he gets there- therefore will stiffen up. I have tried to buy him but the owner has refused, even though she has not seen him for the duration of his time with me - its seems crazy that she wants him back at all. Has anyone been in a similar situation, or have any ideas on a solution.

 

[destiny11]

11 years??? And she won't sell even though she hasn't seen him! That's awful, so sorry for you, don't know about any legal rights but what a horrible thing for her to do.

All I would say is just try to appeal to her kinder side, if she haves one, and explain how upset you will be

 

[ajn1610]

Do you have a contract?
I don't know where you stand legally but what has happened to change the situation?

 

[Lollen]

I would recommend seeking legal action/advice as surely her being the owner not even so much as seeing the horse must be a no no in the eyes of the rspca??

 

[franhyde]

There was no contract when we took him on. We got him because she was to scared to ride him and she never asked for him back untill now. In fact she used to ring up anualy to make sure we weren't planning to sent him back because she wasn't in a position to look after him. Nothing has happened really, only she says she's getting older and wants to ride him - she has two horses already, that she could ride but doesn't.

 

[ajn1610]

Well if you have no loan contract and you've been holding his passport paying for everything etc I would imagine that she will struggle to prove ownership. Seems like genuine people have a hard time getting loan horses back even with a contract. She clearly isn't interested in the welfare of the horse so I don't see why you should hand him over. Tell her he's done a tendon and is unridable maybe she'll back off, she doesn't have any scruples so I don't see why you should act honourably.

 

[the watcher]

[ QUOTE ]
Well if you have no loan contract and you've been holding his passport paying for everything etc I would imagine that she will struggle to prove ownership. Seems like genuine people have a hard time getting loan horses back even with a contract. She clearly isn't interested in the welfare of the horse so I don't see why you should hand him over. Tell her he's done a tendon and is unridable maybe she'll back off, she doesn't have any scruples so I don't see why you should act honourably.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting advice - would amount to fraud or theft if followed through - people have been prosecuted for doing exactly this in the past.

Look, this isn't in ideal situation but it is always a risk with a loan horse, the owner calls the shots. It is a horrible shame, and maybe common sense will rule - maybe invite her to come and ride the horse at your place so she is sure that she will cope with riding it (if it happens to have been 'well fed' for a couple of days beforehand...)

 

[ajn1610]

If it were me I'd be prepared to risk it. The alternative is to ship an elderly horse for hours to a disinterested owner who already has two horses she doesn't exercise because she has a sudden whim to do some riding even though she passed the horse on initially because was too scared to ride it. It's ludicrous.

 

[Imonone]

Im not sure that you would give this advice if you had a horse out on loan. Its not really for you to judge why the owner wants him back or what she will do with him when she gets him back.

I have several on loan and would be appalled if I felt that the loanee would not return the animal when required. The whole background to a loan is on trust whether there is an official contract or not. The trust is on both sides, namely that the owner remains as such and the loanee treats the horse with the utmost care and respect.

Its just a shame that the owner wants the horse back after 11 years in this case but the facts of the loan arrangement remain the same.

My thoughts go out to the OP at this sad time for her x

 

[ajn1610]

Well maybe you are right BUT if I did have a horse out on loan I wouldn't have effectively ignored it for 11 years. Just voicing an opinion. Not meaning to be inflammatory.

 

[scotsmare]

Presumably the passport is still in the owners name therefore she can effectively prove ownership. At the end of the day, the horse belongs to her and she can do as she sees fit. I appreciate that this is very upsetting for you but unless she is prepared to either continue the loan or sell you the horse there is very little you can do unfortunately. I don't think that you have any legal rights at all to the horse but you could consult an equine solicitor to be sure - most will give you a free consultation.

 

[cariad]

I'm sorry, but ownership does not automatically pass after a certain amount of time. The owner remains the owner until he or she gives you the horse as an outright gift and this should be recorded and witnessed independently in writing as a deed of gift or sells it to you, even for a pound or so, again recorded and independently witnessed. You never own a loan horse by passage of time. Even if the owner died, the horse would still belong to his or her estate. It's really frustrating, but imagine how you would feel if ownership did pass like that. No-one would ever loan horses out. I've got a horse out on loan and one on loan to me and have had for years, so I know how you feel, but I can see it from both sides. perhaps I've just been lucky.

Incidentally, on a similar point, one of my bugbears is the "common law spouse". There's no such thing. You are either married or in a civil partnership with all the rights those two give, or you're not, with very few if any rights at all. You cannot acquire any matrimonial rights just by living with someone for a period of time. The goverment is thinking about bringing in some sort of rights entitlement for people who have been in an unmarried partnership for a certain number of years, but there's none as yet. I would hate it, as my partner and I have been together for nearly 30 years, quite deliberately and happily unmarried and I don't want the government to impose rights on us which we don't want. If we wanted them, we'd get married. I would urge anyone who is in this situation, especially if there's business, tax, children or property involved to seek legal advice on where they stand, as a lot depends on financial input of the parties.

And no, I'm not a matrimonial lawyer, so I'm not after work! I am just constantly amazed by the number of people who don't realise this. I know it's not horsy, but hope you don't mind me mentioning it.

 

[Comanche]

No contract, no rights. You have to send him back. I am so sorry that this has happened to you. It does seem unfair, but she has every right to ask for him back and to do with him as she sees fit. I know that you love him and want what you think is best, but don't compromise your standards and dignity by doing something underhand. I would keep asking her to reconsider though........

 

[gothdolly]

A loan is a loan. I think there should have been a contract, but at the end of the day, she put her horse on loan because she did not want to sell it and wanted the opportunity to have it back if she was in a suitable position in the future. If you refuse to give it back, you would be stealing, and if I was her I would take legal action until I got my horse back. You dont want to go through that situation.

An elderly horse can be succesfully travelled if suitable precautions are taken, a vet will advise you. Breaking the journey perhaps or a night stop-over at a livery yard. Its her horse, her decision and I know you are upset but thats the risk you take with loaning.

Speaking as one who has had problems getting a loan horse back in the past, it makes me very angry to hear people advising illegal action.

 

[gina2201]

Unfortunately, a loan is simply that, a loan, so no I do not believe you have any "rights" to ownership. However hard that may be for you to have to come to terms with. It is a shame she will not sell him to you, so, unless you can persuade her better nature then you will have to give him back.