Long wwyd re kids pony

[MollyFell]

I'm driving myself nuts let alone my poor friends so thought I'd put it out there and see what others think. Will try and keep it a brief as poss!

Horsey family, 10yo daughter has ridden infrequently over the years, never been overly interested until early this year. Very nervous and novicey. A friend had a sweet little section A for sale, safe as houses but very green, on paper not a great match but it worked. He's taken her from being too scared to groom a pony to learning her up downs, hacking out, trotting around bareback etc. He's done absolute wonders for her but as of the past 2/3 months it's gone downhill. He's started napping and planting, it's all very half hearted absolutely not nasty or sly but my daughter isn't able to deal with it. He needs a crack on the bum and to be ridden through it but she doesn't have the skill or the confidence, it's built up into this huge paralysing fear that he's going to either buck or ditch her. I know he wouldn't but there's no telling her. It's taking all the fun and pleasure out of having him and having such a negative impact on our relationship. She's having two or three lessons per week alongside having him and we also part loan a pony on our yard two days per week, he's amazing and she'll quite happily w/t/c on him yet isn't even able to walk one lap of the school on her own pony.

Groundwork is ongoing and he's perfect to long rein, happily goes forward but as soon as she's on board he's clinging to me like a LR pony (he's always been ridden off lead). I've tried moving away from the arena but daughter panics, I've tried telling her how to deal with the napping/planting but she won't listen...There's so much more to it and I can't convey just how badly the combination has deteriorated. It's now at the point where she doesn't want to ride him and wants to sell. This pony is a saint, a true kids pony aside from this current taking the mick out of her issue. I can see so much potential for them moving forwards but I can't see a way past this. He's very small and fine, I wouldn't like to put an adult on him and don't know any small enough children to ride him through it.

Do I follow my head and call it a day despite knowing that he's a fantastic pony or do I persevere and keep trying to make it work then risk her losing interest?

 

[Red-1]

I would sell and concentrate on the loan pony for now. If she isn't enjoying it now, she won't through the depths of winter either.

In young kids, it has to be fun. She isn't finding him so, but is the other one. Decision made, for me.

I would do it before she decides that she doesn't enjoy the loan pony either. Could you increase that one to 3 days a week?

 

[Gloi]

My first suspicion is saddle fit. If both the pony and the girl are growing it might be causing him pain which is why he naps ridden now but not in long reins.

 

[Flyermc]

What is he like out hacking? Does the pony lunge? Could she have a lunge lesson on the pony? Could you send the pony away for schooling and then let your daughter ride with te person who has schooled him on and also what does your instructor say?

 

[meleeka]

Have you ruled out something physical wrong with him? Just because he’s a kids pony it doesn’t mean there’s not something wrong that’s making him uncomfortable.

If your daughter wants to sell him I can’t see why you are dithering. She’s decided that he’s not for her so that should be decision made. Kids don’t usually want to let go of them, so that says it all I think.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I'm sorry to say my first thought is 'why have you let it get to this?'. I would have expected the adult to deal with the pony's behaviour as soon as this started, so that he wasn't napping for the child and to investigate why he is doing it. As above, saddle fit seems most likely to be the root of the problem and if it isn't the vet needs to investigate. Until its sorted, I would concentrate daughter's efforts on the loan pony.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

I speak from experience, it is highly unlikely your daughter will regain her trust of and partnership with this pony from this point. Try not to force daughter to persevere ..concentrate on pony with which she feels confident. Also it is rare for our own offspring to take advice from us….I found my daughter listened more willingly to her trainer than me…so I stepped back (with much difficulty) and let them get on with it. It is not an easy situation and you have my sympathy.

 

[MollyFell]

I'm finding the decision so hard because it's literally this one, albeit currently seemingly insurmountable, issue. They've had a great summer together and I know if she got past this, they'd be off.

Teeth have been done recently, back is due next week but was fine last appointment. He's the same bareback, in a saddle pad or in his saddle (recently checked). I genuinely do think he's just trying it on with her rather than pain. Catching up with her instructor for a chat tomorrow.

He was fine out hacking out over summer with company but unfortunately we haven't had anyone to ride with since the issue arose. He'd hack now with me on foot but wouldn't want to leave me and walk on ahead.

It's got to this point despite me trying to resolve it, I certainly haven't been lazy in my efforts to correct things - I so desperately want it to work out.

Unfortunately loan pony isn't available for more days. Would happily send mine for schooling but I wouldn't feel comfortable having more than 5/6 stone on him, he really is fine and only about 11.2. He lunges fine but as soon as my daughter is on board he starts falling in.

I know the right thing is to sell, it's just so hard to accept.

 

[meleeka]

He was fine out hacking out over summer with company but unfortunately we haven't had anyone to ride with since the issue arose. He'd hack now with me on foot but wouldn't want to leave me and walk on ahead.

So this sounds like the pony has lost confidence too. I really doubt he’s ‘trying it on’. Does your daughter have a bond with him when not riding? If she doesn’t want him, I don’t think you pushing the issue is going to make her change her mind. Would it be possible to part loan him? Seeing another child enjoy him might make her regret her decision or it might make you realise selling him is for the best.

 

[Goldenstar]

You need to sell him .

 

[Winters100]

It's now at the point where she doesn't want to ride him and wants to sell.

Do I follow my head and call it a day despite knowing that he's a fantastic pony or do I persevere and keep trying to make it work then risk her losing interest?

In my experience children very rarely have the capacity to see selling as a viable option, usually they want to keep the pony, even when it is clear that the partnership is not viable.

In this case you are lucky that your daughter sees the problem, and also the solution. There is absolutely no shame in saying 'fantastic pony, just not a fit for me'.

You have the loan pony, I would focus on that and sell this one to a lovely new home where he will be more suitable.

Good luck, and do make sure that your daughter does not walk away from this experience seeing it as failing the pony, but as taking proper steps to see that the pony is in a home where he is a good fit.

 

[Red-1]

A little story for you...

I once helped a small child and young pony. The pony was from a charity and was a sweet little thing. The child wasn't confident with it. The pony did what it wanted with the child, who had little confidence. I was the trainer in this situation.

The child was fine on the lead rein, so-so on the lunge, where the pony may have tried it on but I could pretty instantly resolve the situation. Parent, understandably, thought it was a glitch and didn't want to send the pony back. Child really wanted the pony to go. Had a serious conversation...

The pony was sent back to the charity, I did some work with the child to help them feel that their time with said pony had been a success. We did a report together for the charity, detailing the challenges we had faced and how we had overcome them. We detailed how the pony was more advanced now than when it came. We listed the pony's accomplishments and strengths, as well as what the little rider had gained from their time together. We sat at a table, and wrote it all down.

Only a couple of months later, a new pony came into the child's life. I was asked to give a lesson, to see them ride the new pony. I was somewhat dubious, the pony was on a LWVTB as it was older and maybe a little stiff. The place I was to see the pony was not home base, but a show centre on a windy and blustery day.

It was amazing to see. The pony came off, to a new venue - neigh bother. Wind - neigh bother. Walk, trot, canter, jump. Ye-ha. Smiling child. Oh, and it was sound.

I never had to see that small child again. Transformed in the week's trial, she was off to pony club for lessons. Hacking out, going to shows. Mother knew what she was doing, I was simply no longer needed. My job had been to assess the young pony and give options. It was simply not a fit. Nice pony, great child, experienced mother, just not a fit.

New, older pony became a family member, is now outgrown but will be going nowhere.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I don't understand why, if he 'hacks fine" with you walking, you don't do that for a while and let your daughter and the pony regain their confidence in each other. But from what you have said, I suggest that you sell him.

 

[eahotson]

The pony was very young.It probably needed riding once or twice a week by a more experienced rider.Is your instructor light enough to ride it once or twice a week for you?Otherwise sell it.A good selling livery might be the best bet.I hope your little girl regains her confidence and pleasure.

 

[southerncomfort]

If they were happy together previously I think I'd want saddle checked and a vet to have a look.

If all is well then it sounds like they've lost confidence in each other.

If you're really reluctant to sell then maybe get them to stick to fun things for a while. Their are lots of excellent ideas and games in 'Teaching children to ride' (I think that's what it's called). I bought a copy on Amazon.

Also, can they go to some Pony Club rallies? It's amazing what how quickly children can grow in confidence when surrounded by children their own age and under the influence of a good instructor used to teaching children.

Lastly, apologies if I'm reading this wrong! But you sound a little frustrated at the lack of progress. I just wonder if letting her stay well within her comfort zone for a while might be an idea even if it means walking with her every time she rides.

But ultimately if she's quaking at the idea of even getting on him then the partnership might not be recoverable unfortunately.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I would sell.

By the time you get the pony schooled, and daughter confident enough to ride it, she will probably have limited time with him until he is outgrown.

If he is a fine 11.2hh, that is always going to be a limitation.

I would probably buy a chunky, 13-14hh confidence-giving little cob, which she could keep riding for longer.

If it’s a leg-in-each corner type with good bone and solid conformation, depending on her height and weight (I’m assuming she’s quite a small 10 yo if on a fine 11.2hh now) she may never need to move off him unless she chooses to move onto something more sporty. And as quite a few HHOers have shown, little cobs can be very handy when schooled properly.

 

[eahotson]

I would sell.

By the time you get the pony schooled, and daughter confident enough to ride it, she will probably have limited time with him until he is outgrown.

If he is a fine 11.2hh, that is always going to be a limitation.

I would probably buy a chunky, 13-14hh confidence-giving little cob, which she could keep riding for longer.

If it’s a leg-in-each corner type with good bone and solid conformation, depending on her height and weight (I’m assuming she’s quite a small 10 yo if on a fine 11.2hh now) she may never need to move off him unless she chooses to move onto something more sporty. And as quite a few HHOers have shown, little cobs can be very handy when schooled properly.

Quite right.With the addition that an adult or older child can also ride them regularly at least for a while and keep schooling/manners up to speed.

 

[AmyMay]

I would sell too. From what you’ve written (without wishing to offend) this is more about what you want, rather than the child.

So sell pony and when the loan comes to an end let the child pursue a hobby that she enjoys.

 

[paddy555]

you seem to be the reluctant one the child seems to know what they want.
You say your child has lessons. Why not arrange with the instructor to have the next lesson on this pony and you keep out of the way. Let your child and instructor get on with it, see if the instructor feels the situation can be retrieved. They will look at it with a more open mind and if so how it can go forward. You child may explain the problem to the instructor better than to you. At the end of the lesson (if your child even agrees to ride the pony) you will have an answer from a professional which may help your decision.

 

[SusieT]

I would get a vet check (not a back check - a VET check) and consider e.g. ulcers, lameness, back pain.
IF this was all genuinely ok - then I would get saddle checked
IF all of this checks out ok I would use pony as lead rein pony for a while to build up his confidence, and then gradually extend the lead rein.
Pony and child have lost confidence in each other- and pereservering with child who doesn't want to and pony who doesn't want to is just going to end up in a worse situation.
Find a nice pony who is not in a confidence crisis for your child in the mean time or stick to lead rein once physical issues ruled out (most animals do not 'try it on' but have a reason for what they do.

 

[Wishfilly]

I'm finding the decision so hard because it's literally this one, albeit currently seemingly insurmountable, issue. They've had a great summer together and I know if she got past this, they'd be off.

Teeth have been done recently, back is due next week but was fine last appointment. He's the same bareback, in a saddle pad or in his saddle (recently checked). I genuinely do think he's just trying it on with her rather than pain. Catching up with her instructor for a chat tomorrow.

He was fine out hacking out over summer with company but unfortunately we haven't had anyone to ride with since the issue arose. He'd hack now with me on foot but wouldn't want to leave me and walk on ahead.

It's got to this point despite me trying to resolve it, I certainly haven't been lazy in my efforts to correct things - I so desperately want it to work out.

Unfortunately loan pony isn't available for more days. Would happily send mine for schooling but I wouldn't feel comfortable having more than 5/6 stone on him, he really is fine and only about 11.2. He lunges fine but as soon as my daughter is on board he starts falling in.

I know the right thing is to sell, it's just so hard to accept.

Does your instructor know anyone who is small and light enough to ride him? A petite older teen, for example?

If he is a bit of a sensitive soul, he is probably picking up on how your daughter feels, and that may explain why he is clinging to you so much- you're his source of confidence?

He sounds like he would be the right pony for someone, but not your daughter, and presumably in a year or two you'd be facing having to sell anyway? Personally, I'd try to find a rider for him, as you'll need someone to show him at viewing etc regardless. If the rider gets him going nicely, then your daughter may change her mind, and otherwise you can take your time finding a really nice home for him?

 

[honetpot]

As I have said in another thread time is so short for a child, six months can be forever, children have not the physical and often mental development to cope with an animal that is not cooperating, and when things get difficult they think they have failed. Having bought young unbroken ponies for my children, there is a stage where a once compliant pony has learnt more about being ridden, and how to avoid work than the child knows how to cope with, the pony really isn't being naughty, its doing what ponies do. I find that putting an older or better rider on the pony doesn't really work as as soon as the novice gets on, it clocks just from their weight and how they sit, they are the novice they can run rings round.

Older ponies that are good with children have often twigged that if they comply what ever they are asked to do ends quicker, and they can rest. Our old pony 11.2 out hunting would literally stand dozing, and then run like the clappers to catch up with the big horses when they set off. We also had another older pony who was 14.2, that my daughter rode from the age of eight, that would do exactly as it was told, in its own way, and once it was done, just wanted to be left alone. It only got noncompliant when asked to do things properly, when it would show its displeasure by spooking repeatedly at thin air.
I would turn it away for the winter, its wet and miserable, get your daughter a ride on something that behaves for her, and reassess in the spring. I mothballed mine every year unless they were hunting, until the nights draw out. If your daughter is still keen, and may have improved, perhaps then send it away to be reeducated, be aware if it's ridden by an adult, even a small one, it may be sharper and off the leg,and your daughter will need to have got more confident to have a chance of making it work, and really want to do it.

 

[eahotson]

As I have said in another thread time is so short for a child, six months can be forever, children have not the physical and often mental development to cope with an animal that is not cooperating, and when things get difficult they think they have failed. Having bought young unbroken ponies for my children, there is a stage where a once compliant pony has learnt more about being ridden, and how to avoid work than the child knows how to cope with, the pony really isn't being naughty, its doing what ponies do. I find that putting an older or better rider on the pony doesn't really work as as soon as the novice gets on, it clocks just from their weight and how they sit, they are the novice they can run rings round.

Older ponies that are good with children have often twigged that if they comply what ever they are asked to do ends quicker, and they can rest. Our old pony 11.2 out hunting would literally stand dozing, and then run like the clappers to catch up with the big horses when they set off. We also had another older pony who was 14.2, that my daughter rode from the age of eight, that would do exactly as it was told, in its own way, and once it was done, just wanted to be left alone. It only got noncompliant when asked to do things properly, when it would show its displeasure by spooking repeatedly at thin air.
I would turn it away for the winter, its wet and miserable, get your daughter a ride on something that behaves for her, and reassess in the spring. I mothballed mine every year unless they were hunting, until the nights draw out. If your daughter is still keen, and may have improved, perhaps then send it away to be reeducated, be aware if it's ridden by an adult, even a small one, it may be sharper and off the leg,and your daughter will need to have got more confident to have a chance of making it work, and really want to do it.

Well a couple of things.This pony is very young.However quiet it is inexperienced in life and can't expect to be as reliable as an older more experienced one.A good schooler, used to schooling ponies for young children should not make the mistake of making the pony "too sharp".

 

[SusieT]

Out of interest if she was novicey was there a reason you didn't buy her a safe as houses saint who had brought several other children up through the ranks?

 

[moosea]

If you want to keep the pony could you loan it out on the days you loan the other pony?
Perhaps your local pony club would know someone?
Your daughter would have company to ride with, the pony would have a more confident rider and when your daughter is ready she can ride the pony too?

 

[eahotson]

Out of interest if she was novicey was there a reason you didn't buy her a safe as houses saint who had brought several other children up through the ranks?

to be fair this sort are very very hard to find.

 

[honetpot]

Well a couple of things.This pony is very young.However quiet it is inexperienced in life and can't expect to be as reliable as an older more experienced one.A good schooler, used to schooling ponies for young children should not make the mistake of making the pony "too sharp".

As in 'too sharp' for a novice rider. As we made our own ponies with the thought they would end up as possible first ponies, they were ridden to be slightly less responsive, even when they could have been more off the leg, when the girls got older.
In the past I have sent ponies away because my daughters were not experienced enough to teach the pony a skill, and it always took them at least a week to go back to, what I would call child mode, when they came home. As the ponies went away not because they had a problem, their riders were surprised but not frightened. The last one I sent was a LR, FR which had started spooking to unsettle the child, foot perfect with an experienced rider, just not predictable enough for a wobbly child.

The art of bringing on a pony for a child IMO, is the adult, who should always be there supervising, being to control and engineer the situation, so the pony is never left being able to make its own choice, while the child is riding. It's a lot easier for them to learn negative behaviours, which reward them with less work, than correct it once it's done.
The attitude of the pony is often there when its 3/4, all you have to do then is make sure it never gets overwhelmed or given the opportunity to make its own choices.
We had very cheap ponies, usually bought on seeing them trot up on the road, my daughter was once told at PC that it was alright for her because she always had nice ponies to ride, but to make them nice and mainly predictable you have to put in the work, and that work is not going around in circles in an enclosed space, it's going out and about, and finding what, if any are the trigger points.

So back to the OP pony, I would be looking at what if anything has changed, or is its stress bucket just full and is it sour after the summer. The grass here is very green, and the poos sloppy, so that may be a factor. The child being stressed is riding with the handbrake on, so the pony is getting mixed messages. Then someone may have suggested a stronger bit, or most restrictive tack to control the behaviour, which makes the pony boil over to avoid it, or freeze, and now the whole experience of human contact has become something to avoid. Unless it is thin for this time of year, condition score of less than 3, I would not be rugging it or giving it any hard feed, and a carrot treat is in a bucket, when it comes in. If you can not turn it out 24/7, it comes in gets it carrot and gets left with its forage. I would only let the child handle it with direct adult supervision, where the adult is in control,and only ask what can be achieved safely.
When I was twelve plus, I rode for a dealer where we got a lot of cast off's, poorly trained or untrained ponies,(my mother had no clue of the risks) and most we managed to turn around, mainly by being kind,consistant, and making the work seem fun, keeping things short and sweet. The ones we had to admit defeat, were usually older ponies where various people had tried to sort them, and they had become so defensive and shut down to human contact, a slight trigger would set them off. So I would try the reset button on this young pony, and start again in spring,

 

[Annagain]

Sometimes the chemistry is just wrong. It's nobody's fault but something needs to change. I'm an adult and I went through something very similar with my last horse, I imagine it's even more important to deal with it for a child.

I tried and tried for 2 years before I admitted it wasn't working, sold him and bought another. Please read my latest thread to see how it should be. Even falling off my new one has been weirdly good (although my bum disagrees at the moment). I spent two years having zero confidence, zero self-belief, feeling massively inadequate, forcing myself to ride and hating the one thing I loved doing. Selling him broke my heart but it was the right thing for both of us.

I've had my new boy 3 months and the last two years have just melted away. The right horse is everything.

 

[eahotson]

Sometimes the chemistry is just wrong. It's nobody's fault but something needs to change. I'm an adult and I went through something very similar with my last horse, I imagine it's even more important to deal with it for a child.

I tried and tried for 2 years before I admitted it wasn't working, sold him and bought another. Please read my latest thread to see how it should be. Even falling off my new one has been weirdly good (although my bum disagrees at the moment). I spent two years having zero confidence, zero self-belief, feeling massively inadequate, forcing myself to ride and hating the one thing I loved doing. Selling him broke my heart but it was the right thing for both of us.

I've had my new boy 3 months and the last two years have just melted away. The right horse is everything.

I 100% agree with that.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I am currently watching the same sort of scenario. Nice pony, nice kid, nice parent. Pony was bought to get kid off lead rein but can't be trusted off lead. Pony is young. Kid hasn't progressed and Pony stuck on lead rein. I would definitely sell and find a suitable confidence giver. There is nothing better than a child having a best friend they can bond with without being scared.