Longreining Help Please!

[tonitot]

Hi all, this afternoon I decided to longrein Ethel. I've done this once before with her and she was a bit of a cow, I planned to do it more often but then hurt my shoulder and haven't been able to do anything for a while.
So, I decided to have a go tonight and once again, she was a cow bag. She storms around and tries to trot off, tries to go out if the field, won't stand when asked. If I want her to stand I have to dig my heels in and really pull as saying "staaaaannnnnddd" and gentle pulling just doesn't work, she's like this when being ridden also. Putting poles out for her to go over doesn't make a difference, she storms over them not caring if she stands on them or not. I tried lots of halt, walk and back up transitions but they don't make much difference, when I ask her to go from halt to walk she swings her bum to the side and walks off very quickly, also does this when ridden. She just seems to be ignoring me and gets very impatient when asks to stand, I wait ages for her to stand still whilst she shuffles about and tries to walk on. She's also being gobby, when she wants to go faster or I ask her to stop she opens her mouth, leans on the bit and generally walks straight through it.
She's in a happy mouth loose ring snaffle and a cavesson baseband, no flash.
When she gets tired she tends to listen a bit more but not much. I ended the session on a good note though when she finally decided to walk steadily with her head down not pulling at all and stood when I asked her to.

Is it a case of just keep longreining her so she gets used to it and understands what she's meant to be doing, I think she's a bit confused by it all if I'm honest, or does it sound like shes being rude and/or needs something changing like her bit or noseband?

Just to add she's 4yo, so still a baby.

 

[tonitot]

Cavesson noseband not baseband

 

[CeeBee]

Have just started long reining my 4 year old, but all new to me so afraid Im unable to offer any advice. Just hi-jacking your post to say what a great name your horse has - Ethel, love it

 

[be positive]

It sounds like she does not really understand yet, also walking and halting is rather boring for them. I would start by lunging her on the two reins, give her some time trotting to let her settle, then do a few changes of rein, or figures of eight to get her listening before going behind her and practising the transitions and getting her to be straighter.
She will learn to soften more once she is able to go forward freely and listens to your voice when you ask her to slow down or stop, pulling on her will just make her set herself and ignore your aids even more as she is not sure what you are asking. Make sure you are very clear when asking something of her, they need a very definite change in the tone of your voice, it is the way you say things not what you say that they listen to.

 

[tonitot]

CeeBee, thanks I love her name too

be positive, thank you. I did start lunging with the two reins and changing the rein although didn't do any figures of eight before I got behind her. I asked her to stand the same way as I do when lunging and she listens to me then. We did a whole circuit of the field with me saying :aaaannnnnndddd sttttaaaannnnddd ... " as I was taught to in.college, I was told say it like I was fed up and sighing if you know what I mean? I wasn't getting any response so gave her a gentle pull on the lines to try to get her listening, which obviously didn't work very well. What can I do until she listens to my voice?

 

[be positive]

If she listens then there is no reason why she should not the rest of the time, I would do more transitions on the circles gradually reducing the request to stop so that she is standing as you say aaa rather than the whole lot if you see what I mean, once she is really tuned in you should hardly have to use your voice and she will respond. Also let her get a little tired, before you first try to stop, if she is thinking forward it is preferable to a backward thinking horse that you have to get after all the time.

 

[tonitot]

She is definitely a forward thinking horse, when lunging I spend most of the time saying woah and slowly lol. Though when it comes to canter she isn't so forwards but I'm pretty certain that's from being unbalanced.

Will have a go again tomorrow and try out what you've suggested Thank you

 

[tonitot]

Bump in case there are more ideas out there

 

[Bettyboo222]

Are you releasing the pressure as soon as she is stood? I made this mistake with Ted, immediatly release any pressure as soon as she is still

 

[jennyf]

You may have already been doing this, but in case you haven't, try leading first with the same commands before you try long reining.

Move onto having someone by her head and leading her with you in long reining position to back up your voice commands.

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

Reading your post, I think you might have to be more obvious with your own body language. Where are you when you long line her? Do you stay directly behind her or more to the side? You need to be where she can see you out of the corner of her eye, and you need to make your body language big and very clear at least until she learns what you are asking of her. Keep everything at a walk and forget the poles for now.

To get her to walk on in a straight line....are you using a school? If so start her off beside the rails, say your asking her to walk on on the left rein.....keep a good contact on the right rein and keep your own position out to the side of her and very slightly behind. Look her in the eye and REALLY use your whole body to direct her in the direction you want her to go. When she walks on you can drop back again a little bit. Stopping....if you've got corners in the school walk her into a corner and then ask her to back up, corners are a very useful tool, don't be afraid to use them!

A handy little exercise which sounds totally funny but I promise you it works. Put your horse away, grab a friend who's up for a bit of fun and the long lines and get in the school. Get your fun friend to be the person and you be the horse, just holding the lines lightly in your hands and then your fun friend will long line you. You'll see, as the horse, how hard it is as first to understand what the 'handler' is asking of you and how clear the handler has to be. Don't forget the handler has to praise you when you've done the right thing!!

Sorry if I've been clumsy with the instruction, it would be so much easier to show you with the horse! Hope this helps...

 

[Goldenstar]

I always start long reining with a second person I use them I support me in getting the horse to stand calmly it does take time ,longer with some than others the second person gets In front of the horse and gets them to stand and that means you can release the pressure on the reins quickly and with confidence as they ' get it ' I remove the support of the second person.
I always have someone with me for long reining out and about just in case I get in tangle.

 

[tonitot]

Thank you everyone

I do release the pressure as soon as she stands but she often seems to think this means she can walk on again so I have to ask again.. and again.. and again as she keeps walking off as soon as I release.

Will try all of the above, hopefully she'll catch on and understand what to do. I'd like to take her out in the road (obviously with q friend at her head) but I'd like to get her listening in the field first. The field is basically our school, it's rectangular so can use it the same as a school

 

[Foxhunter49]

I would start her off on a circle as lunging her but with two reins, you can use both to stop and turn her, work her a lot at the trot and then when she has worked for a while start driving her but as someone said, to the side so she can see you and then gradually dropping behind her.

 

[tonitot]

Foxhunter49, I did lunge her with the two reins first but not for long so I'll do it for longer tomorrow and tire her out a bit

 

[jeeve]

I have not done much long reining, but my fellow is excellent at voice commands on the lunge and I would teach this first on the lunge before attempting long reining. It does not take long to teach and should help with the communication with long reining. Stand is not an easy word either. i would tend to use whoa, but that is me...others may differ.

 

[maggiesmum]

With the halt thing, keep doing what you did - plenty of repetition till she gets it, each time she moves off ask her to stand again but be happy to accept a very short stand and build up from there.

I find a good exercise at the start of the session is lots of changes of direction, pick a fence post in the school or field and walk directly at it, when you get there pick another and march to that one and so on - your focus will transfer down the lines and improve her focus, also try to stand at 45 degrees to her hind leg so that she can see you and I sometimes either give a click or send a vibration down the inside line to get their attention back onto me if its wandering. A trainer once told me when you're with you're horse you're working your horse, its easy to let both their and your attention wander but by making a concerted effort to stay focused and to keep them focused I find I get much better results.

 

[hayinamanger]

I want my young horses to be pretty good on voice commands before we move on to longreining. I do this by using 'whoa', 'walk on' and 'stand' all the time, just doing routine stuff around the yard, in the box and generally moving them about. When I can stop them and park them, I move on to the next stage.

I also always use side reins or an elasticated training aid for added control. These would not be used in a fixed, tight position, just to prevent the horse from making his own arrangements about where we are going.

 

[tonitot]

Right, today I tried some of these ideas, although I'd forgotten half of them I started of lunging with two reins, Ethel decided she wanted to go and talk to the horse next door. I tried to get her to go on a circle but she just stormed sideways dragging me along behind/next to her. So I pulled the other line to try and get her to turn the other way, which resulted in her just spinning round and round until she was all wrapped up in the lines. I dropped them ans calmly walked up to her, untangled her and started again. This time she decided she'd just charge round on a circle and try to pull me to the exit every time she went past it. I made her keep cantering even when she didn't want to anymore and then she started to listen and behave. After she had her demon moment she worked very nicely but I kept her going until she was very tired before I long reined her. I stood out to the side so she could see me and did lots of changes in direction (much to her disappointment when she thought we were heading out of the field. I only did it for about 5 mins, had some short stands and a few back up steps which I was happy with although she was still charging round a bit. All in all she worked very nicely and listened when lunged just not so much on the long reins and when she wanted to go talk to her sexy boyfriend next door

My friend at the yard (montyforever on here) has offered to help by walking by her head if needed so that's all good