Looking old suddenly and marks on front of fetlocks?

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LilMissy

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Also in veterinary...I just wrote a whole post, checked I was logged in and stupid thing got deleted - argh!

Anyway :rolleyes:

Quick summary this time! I have an older retired mare - approx 25yrs old. Looked fab this time last year, fat and hairy and behaving like a baby!

However since October time she very suddenly she started to look very old - developed loads of grey hair through her neck and over her head. Started to loose weight and got a lot quieter.

Kept her in all of November and most of December as was worried about her. She has access to a large barn area with deep bed, always has company and also can go outside in big concrete turn out area. Access to adlib hay 24/7 in a feeder.

She was also being turned out in the school for a buck and a roll, which she enjoyed.

Since Jan have been turning her out in field as she is definately happer but bringing her in for a day or so every week to check her and let her dry out! Normally if she had a few days in she would charge off and have a play, in the last few weeks she has just wandered off quietly.

I noticed during the summer that she had a small wound to the front of one fetlocks, sometime looked like it was healing and then reopening. Didnt bother her, never infected so I just kept an eye. She now has matching identical wounds on front of both fetlocks, worse when she is kept in. I was wondering if she might be having problems getting up and down but as I havent seen her lying down Im not sure? (I know she has at some point as she has straw in her mane or mud!).

In the last two weeks her legs are starting to swell every time she comes in for a night, despite the fact that she can move around freely (not a stable) and she drags her hind feet as well. She also fell over on the concrete when she was attempting to tell one of the other off.

Her weight has gone back up a bit but I cant get seem to get anymore on her, dont think she can physically eat any more in her meals! She is on A&P fast fibre, micronised linseed, high fibre nuts (soaked) and buteless. I would score her between 1 and 2 on a score of 5 :( She has had her teeth done.

Obviously due to her age she isnt insured for vets fees (unless an accident) and blood tests have been fine. Am just shocked how quickly she looks old, genuinely last winter she was so fat and hairy I didnt even rug her! She has been rugged up to the eyeballs all this winter.

Vet was happy with her feeding, she is vacc, wormed and feet and teeth done etc

Any ideas or is it really just age catching up on her?
 
I know you've got her on the buteless but may be worth speaking to vet about trying some bute or danilon if you feel she's struggling with her joints (which finding it hard to get up and down and dragging her toes would suggest). Part of it could be old age catching up with her but (as pointed out to me by my own vet) sometimes when they are in pain / generally uncomfortable or stressed (and if she does get stuck sometimes that could be a source of stress) that can make it very hard to get weight on them. Is she out with a group of other horses and if so how do they treat her? Could be possible if she's slowed down that they may be bullying her and chasing her off the food so she may not be getting as much access to hay as she might have done in the past. I'd maybe consider swapping the fastfibre for calm and condition or similar to try and get some more calories in there and perhaps consider a general balancer / vitamin & mineral supplement to try and help her get the most goodness out of what she's eating. Not suggesting that any of this necessarily is the case, just chucking ideas around but if you are concerned about her mobility and she really is as thin as you say then I'd be having a serious chat with your vet. (May also be worth trying to set a camera or something up to try and work out if the marks on her legs are from her getting up or just coincidental)
 
Thanks Boulty, although she is in a herd and has never been 'the boss' she definately gets access to the hay! I would say she is probably second/third in the pecking order, most of the others are youngsters who have grown up with her. The 'bully boy' is currently on box rest as one of them kicked him! Which he probably throughly deserved! But to be honest he never really bothered her that much anyway as she was his substitute mum when growing up and he is scared of her cross face!

Even the 'boss' mare wouldnt dare turn her off her hard feed!!

They have access to a vit and min lick at all times, a high in magnesium one.

I am fairly restricted on budget at this point for various reasons so trying to find a feed that suits most and which is what she gets, only more of it!

I gave her a protexein after her last wormer as thought that could help with gut function? What would be a good boast to the immune system?

The vet last saw her three weeks ago when he rechecked her teeth for me. Was happy with the feed given but did mention more blood tests etc. Just have a couple of big vet bills recently (insurance company decided not to pay out on one despite me phoning them first to check before I had the work done :mad:).

I have some bute around, could do a bute trial for ten days to see if she really perks up? I tried her on antibitics again for five days last week and it didnt make any difference.
 
If she's suddenly started to look old e.g. droopy back it could be that her liver or kidneys are starting to fail, and perhaps why the vet has suggested blood tests. The sores on her legs could be caused like you say by difficulty getting up and perhaps the swelling from collitus where bacteria has entered through the open wounds, so perhaps she could be doing with an antibiotic of some sort. I'd have a good chat with the vet re your concerns, I'd say a daily bute is probably a good idea (my creaky old TB was on daily bute until we said goodbye when he was 28) but perhaps he'll be able to recommend something else. I'd probably be tempted to bring her in at night if she's happy with that, put out well rugged during the day, that way she's not stiffening up from standing in all the time, but gets a chance to get away from the mud. I always feed oldies a specialized veteran feed like Dodson & Horrells 16Plus, & make sure they get plenty of oil. You might find her system just can't cope with more of what the others get any more. It may actually be false economy for you doing it that way too. Other feeds I've found useful for poor doers is Readymash Extra (which can be fed as a nice warm mash to heat old tummys on a Winter night) and Mollichaff cherry Show Chaff. Obviously don't start to overload her suddenly, it may well be difficult to get her weight back up at this time of year,but hopefully come Spring, Dr Green will help her pick up again.
 
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Have you had her tested for Cushings? She may not have the classic symptoms such as failure to shed, but that is only one of many symptoms and at her age I wouldn't rule it out even if there are no symptoms at all. Failure to thrive and lack of energy can be pointers.
 
I really would discuss with a vet. I know money is tight, we're all in the same boat, my vet will have a chat about my oldie on the phone and tell me if he thinks he needs to see her.
 
Don't know what bloods you've had done but would suggest a minimum of liver and ACTH (cushings), both can be treated in most cases. Ideally would also get vet to check for heart problems and any neurological issues (e.g.incoordination). Could you take her to the vets to save your call out fee?
 
Agree with JillA, could be cushings, which is at its worst in the autumn, and a failure of wounds to heal properly is another symptom as well as the lethargy and just generally looking old.
 
It is worth trying the video or quietly observing option. I had an old horse that started to look very tired and develop strange cuts and obvious 'scuff' injuries on the front of the fetlocks and eventually on his hocks. He was falling over when he tried to sleep standing up and causing the injuries. He could get up and down fine because each morning he would head out into the field and enjoy a good roll.
 
Scuffs on the front of the fetlocks are textbook signs of a horse which is suffering sleep deprivation. I saw my old girl go to sleep standing up but way too deeply and she fell down as a result. The fetlocks tend to buckle forwards, hence the scuffs on the front surface. I would definitely get the old thing Cushings tested. Becoming subdued and quiet is a known symptom. Animals do seem to age quite suddenly. One day they are normal, having a hoon in the field and suddenly they are REALLy old.
 
She was blood tested in Aug as was a little depressed, this indicated a small amount of infection somewhere and after some anti b's she was back to her normal self. I also took advantage of the free testing for Cushings in the autumn. I had two done. She was negative (the 19yr old pony positive, he is still fine with kids but grumpy as hell with anything else!).

I hadnt thought of heart problems? How likely would this be?

As an extra thought I have seen her rolling in the school and didnt notice any particular problem with her getting up and down. She loves a good sand bath!

So is there anything I could give her for a month or so to help with the weight, until the grass starts coming through properly?

Im actually sorting out another smaller paddock for her and one friend to move to so I can ensure she is getting enough rest. Was just wondering if the weanlings (esp the filly!) are a bit much for her now. She has always been an excellent nanny and enjoyed the babies but have noticed that this filly esp bounces up to her wanting to play and she ends up getting a kick. She cant be bothered to go after her anymore so just makes faces. Having said that they are in a big field and she is mainly to be found eating with my riding mare.

The paddock Im moving her to is has been ungrazed all winter and has lovely grass and no mud but cant move her for another two weeks yet. As its closed to home it means I can up her feeds to three times a day as well.

My vet is probably having to come out next week anyway so will get him to check her again.
 
It might be worth trying an agnus castus based supplement like cushinaze or vitex. I had ny oldie on cushinaze for about 2 years at my Vets suggestion. I had 10 days without it once when I had trouble getting some in & the difference was amazing - everybody started asking me cautiously (he was 27) if he was ok, he looked so depressed. It was pretty obvious what they were thinking. After a couple of days back on the supplement he was barging his way out of the field at tea time again!
 
LilMissy said:
She was blood tested in Aug as was a little depressed, this indicated a small amount of infection somewhere and after some anti b's she was back to her normal self. I also took advantage of the free testing for Cushings in the autumn. I had two done. She was negative (the 19yr old pony positive, he is still fine with kids but grumpy as hell with anything else!).

I hadnt thought of heart problems? How likely would this be?

As an extra thought I have seen her rolling in the school and didnt notice any particular problem with her getting up and down. She loves a good sand bath!

So is there anything I could give her for a month or so to help with the weight, until the grass starts coming through properly?

Im actually sorting out another smaller paddock for her and one friend to move to so I can ensure she is getting enough rest. Was just wondering if the weanlings (esp the filly!) are a bit much for her now. She has always been an excellent nanny and enjoyed the babies but have noticed that this filly esp bounces up to her wanting to play and she ends up getting a kick. She cant be bothered to go after her anymore so just makes faces. Having said that they are in a big field and she is mainly to be found eating with my riding mare.

The paddock Im moving her to is has been ungrazed all winter and has lovely grass and no mud but cant move her for another two weeks yet. As its closed to home it means I can up her feeds to three times a day as well.

My vet is probably having to come out next week anyway so will get him to check her again.
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I definitely think there is being a good nanny and then it all being too much. I knew an old mare (30s) who always babysat the new youngsters and any foals that happened but one day a couple of new 3 year olds ganged up on her and ran her ragged. They had no respect for her at all. Luckily her owner was on the ball and removed her before she came to any harm. Oldies like to graze and snooze and enjoy the sun on their back. Running around is something they used to do. Youngsters need to run and play and should be able to do so
 
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