loose box definition

[ILuvCowparsely]

For As title What is your definition of a loose box.

It is something that has come up with our business rates.

I know what I believe and taught it was but wondered what the majority would expect a loose box to look like, as there is a fine line between stables and loose boxes with the Valuation Office Agency.

Also Haybarn is another I would not call internal stables which have hay in two of them ( 13x13 ) a hay barn

 

[Dave's Mam]

A box where the horse is loose as opposed to tied in a stall. That's what it means to me.

 

[Theocat]

A box where the horse is loose as opposed to tied in a stall. That's what it means to me.

Agree - a secure space in which you can safely keep one loose horse.

Stables, for me, just indicates a facility to keep horses indoors. Usually loose boxes, but could be stalls. I can't think of any other kind of horse housing except pens or barns for more than one horse.

If you're keeping hay in loose boxes, I wouldn't class that as a hay barn - I'd classs it as loose boxes or stabling.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

A box where the horse is loose as opposed to tied in a stall. That's what it means to me.

Yes but when you read the fine lines it says a loosebox is where you park a horse for a short time and feed it but it is not housed overnight, where a stable is the home where a horse sleeps.
We have just sat reading their site and terminology, which comes across that way,

The distinction between a stable and a loose box is a fine one. The Concise Oxford English Dictionary defines a stable as a “building set apart and adapted for lodging and feeding horses” and a loose box for a horse as a “compartment in a stable in which it can move about”.

.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

A box where the horse is loose as opposed to tied in a stall. That's what it means to me.

This exactly!

 

[alainax]

Regular stables as we know them are loose boxes. The opposite being these (what I’d call stalls)

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yes but when you read the fine lines it says a loosebox is where you park a horse for a short time and feed it but it is not housed overnight, where a stable is the home where a horse sleeps

Where on earth have they found that definition? It is utter rubbish. Loose box is an old-fashioned term for what is commonly called a stable nowadays, because it is rare for us to use stalls, whereas it used to be common.

 

[Theocat]

Yes but when you read the fine lines it says a loosebox is where you park a horse for a short time and feed it but it is not housed overnight, where a stable is the home where a horse sleeps

???

Is that the valuers' fine print???? Do they think we all have one expensive box for each horse during day time, and another expensive box for night time?

 

[Dave's Mam]

Yes but when you read the fine lines it says a loosebox is where you park a horse for a short time and feed it but it is not housed overnight, where a stable is the home where a horse sleeps.
We have just sat reading their site and terminology, which comes across that way,

.

Pants. There goes my theory!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Agree - a secure space in which you can safely keep one loose horse.

Stables, for me, just indicates a facility to keep horses indoors. Usually loose boxes, but could be stalls. I can't think of any other kind of horse housing except pens or barns for more than one horse.

If you're keeping hay in loose boxes, I wouldn't class that as a hay barn - I'd classs it as loose boxes or stabling.

Well they want to charge us £ 2300 in rates a year as they call that a haybarn

 

[Dave's Mam]

Regular stables as we know them are loose boxes. The opposite being these (what I’d call stalls)

My definition, precisely.

 

[alainax]

Yes but when you read the fine lines it says a loosebox is where you park a horse for a short time and feed it but it is not housed overnight, where a stable is the home where a horse sleeps.
We have just sat reading their site and terminology, which comes across that way,


“The distinction between a stable and a loose box is a fine one. The Concise Oxford English Dictionary defines a stable as a “building set apart and adapted for lodging and feeding horses” and a loose box for a horse as a “compartment in a stable in which it can move about”.”
.

From the quote you have put at the end, I read that as a stable being a stand alone entity, like a shed, a building in its own right, and the other being like a compartment in a barn, like american barn style boxes.

 

[Shay]

I suspect you might not be in England? Possibly not in the UK either? A loosebox is what we call a stable. Standing stalls are not common in the UK - the horse stands (hence the term) usually cross tied. It cannot lay down. That is a stall. A Haybarn is where you keep hay. An American barn is the same structure but with looseboxes in it.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Where on earth have they found that definition? It is utter rubbish. Loose box is an old-fashioned term for what is commonly called a stable nowadays, because it is rare for us to use stalls, whereas it used to be common.

VAO They came round and saw our yard and adding rates to some of the buildings, and as we had a mattress in a stable a short time before it was picked up he called the stable a loose box and wants £ 2300 in yearly rates as he thinks it is a storage place where it is only empty a short time between horses coming and leaving

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I suspect you might not be in England? Possibly not in the UK either? A loosebox is what we call a stable. Standing stalls are not common in the UK - the horse stands (hence the term) usually cross tied. It cannot lay down. That is a stall. A Haybarn is where you keep hay. An American barn is the same structure but with looseboxes in it.

lol I am in SE England where I have lived for over 30 years lol before that London

 

[Theocat]

They're interpreting that definition poorly. It shows that stabling is just the generic term for somewhere to keep (lodge) a horse, and a loose box is just a kind of stabling. It does not say that the two are different things; it says that the latter is a variety of the former!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

???

Is that the valuers' fine print???? Do they think we all have one expensive box for each horse during day time, and another expensive box for night time?

That is from their website. Don't you know we horse people are rich and have more than 1 stable for each horse

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

They're interpreting that definition poorly. It shows that stabling is just the generic term for somewhere to keep (lodge) a horse, and a loose box is just a kind of stabling. It does not say that the two are different things; it says that the latter is a variety of the former!

In fairness it goes on to say more but it is too long winded and I don't want to extract anymore info from the site and get into trouble.

At the end of the day he is saying in his letter that because there is no horse in there only a mattress which is now gone ( but he thinks is stored there) they want £ 2300 rates as it is being classed as a storage place, but if a horse is in there ( like other stables here) it is ok and no charge

 

[Theocat]

VAO They came round and saw our yard and adding rates to some of the buildings, and as we had a mattress in a stable a short time before it was picked up he called the stable a loose box and wants £ 2300 in yearly rates as he thinks it is a storage place where it is only empty a short time between horses coming and leaving

So ... storage is more expensive (for rates) than stabling? And he has defined it as a loose box ... and thinks that makes it storage?!

I don't think you'll find any shortage of evidence about what a loose box is!

ETA: cross posted. Can't you just move the mattress and the hay, put horses in and get him back to see?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

VAO They came round and saw our yard and adding rates to some of the buildings, and as we had a mattress in a stable a short time before it was picked up he called the stable a loose box and wants £ 2300 in yearly rates as he thinks it is a storage place where it is only empty a short time between horses coming and leaving

Just tell him that the mattress was for the horse to sleep on!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

So ... storage is more expensive (for rates) than stabling? And he has defined it as a loose box ... and thinks that makes it storage?!

I don't think you'll find any shortage of evidence about what a loose box is!

ETA: cross posted. Can't you just move the mattress and the hay, put horses in and get him back to see?

The mattress is gone we gave it away free on free cycle as it was too soft for my back and we had washed the stable out and clean ready for a new potential livery but as we had someone wanting the mattress and could not collect it till following weekend , we put it in the stable on top of rubber matting near gate for easy collection. This guy from the Value agency came round on the Wednesday while it was there, and we got a letter last night and one of the things was about this stable and the other a building with 6 internal stables 2 have ponies 2 livery items and 2 hay, he calls it a hay barn and taxed it so.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

just tell him that the mattress was for the horse to sleep on!

lmao

 

[ester]

The website gives descriptions for them both but then seems to consider them as the same thing, constantly referring to them as 'stables or loose boxes'.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

So ... storage is more expensive (for rates) than stabling? And he has defined it as a loose box ... and thinks that makes it storage?!

I don't think you'll find any shortage of evidence about what a loose box is!

ETA: cross posted. Can't you just move the mattress and the hay, put horses in and get him back to see?

We have to fill a form in and such to dispute their prices, as in all they want £ 7500 in extra rates including the schools

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

The website gives descriptions for them both but then seems to consider them as the same thing, constantly referring to them as 'stables or loose boxes'.

There are 4 separate links we have to read, it is not very clearly written. At the end of the day the guy who came round was not English or horsey, and to think just because a mattress is in there he can charge that amount, hubby says if that is the case he will remove the stable and burn it, as we get less than that in livery from it.



As for the internal stables that is what they are internal stables with hay in 2 of the boxes cannot justify The ££££ a year in rates

 

[Shay]

Are you registered with the BHS? They've been dong a lot of work with registered schools / yards disputing these new business rates. They are crippling. But they have the expertise. Otherwise it might be worthwhile in the long run to hire a lawyer?

 

[stormox]

A loose box is an area roughly 12ft x 12ft with a door wide enough to get a horse through. As opposed to a stall. A group of loose boxes stalls and other associated buildings could be termed stables though.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Are you registered with the BHS? They've been dong a lot of work with registered schools / yards disputing these new business rates. They are crippling. But they have the expertise. Otherwise it might be worthwhile in the long run to hire a lawyer?

yes I am - I am a gold member so will check with hubby and maybe give them a call, don't like discussing things without hubbies know how as is the owner of the place and deals with all the heavy stuff.

 

[curiosity101]

yes I am - I am a gold member so will check with hubby and maybe give them a call, don't like discussing things without hubbies know how as is the owner of the place and deals with all the heavy stuff.

Just out of interest, and this is probably me playing devils advocate. Where would you store hay if it wasn't in one of the stables? I imagine you'll get really good advice from the BHS legal line and be able to dispute quite a bit.

But the valuers that come around are probably given the brief of 'Charge the highest rates you can' (or at least that's what it sometimes feels like). And if you have no where else to store your hay, then by definition those stables are your hay barn.

Good luck, it sounds like they will hopefully have to come and re value cause they've been a bit daft.

Also just out of interest, what would you say you have vs what they say you have? I'm just being nosey, it'd be nice to see how big the difference is (I'm guessing it's considerable). Particularly if they do end up coming back and re-valuing in line with what you're suggesting.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

A loose box is an area roughly 12ft x 12ft with a door wide enough to get a horse through. As opposed to a stall. A group of loose boxes stalls and other associated buildings could be termed stables though.

Such a fine line the terminology as way back when we called the stables and the larger ones like foaling boxes we called loose boxes, same with the internal boxes within a American barn, we called those loose boxes. When you read all the pages we have their terminology changes. We sat down and reviewed all the livery and stud farm bits as well as the bits we need to know. So many different *it's OK* and *it is not OK bits* to do with clauses and demands.

It def seems all the stables which had horses in are excluded where as others are not - we have 2 empty stables apart from this one and he looked in and measured them, like he did with the others, and box 5 and 7 which are empty but got rubber matting and water drinkers, he has not billed us for but stable 12 a single stable like stable 8 is which is on back yard (but stable 8 had a horse in) otherwise there is no difference he billed us for, but stable 12 the one in question also has hayrack - manger and rubber matting in just like the other empty ones. So it can only be because of the mattress which was there when he viewed, and I have to say I never called him for appointment he showed up as he was so called in the area.

Our argument is the stable always had a horse in and at the present time we are between horses, hence we put the mattress in there.