loose jumping 3yr olds??? yay or neigh.

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lisa_lou

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I keep seeing horses for sale, 3 yr olds in particular being sold by show jumping producers showing pictures of them jumping whacking great fences, this can't be good for a 3 yr old surely. A couple of my friends bought from Germany 3 yr olds jumping huge really kicking the hind end out ( really impressive pictures) and they have turned out to be very bold great jumpers, what are your views?
 
I wouldn't want to buy a 3 yr old that had been jumped at all. I would be worried about what the future holds for their legs. It's why i buy younger than that and bring them on myself.
 
I don't see a problem with loose jumping 3 yr olds a few times before backing - in fact I think it's almost an essential part of education. I'm not sure I agree with quite how high they get on the continent, but then I think they produce specifically to sell rather than produce long term.

I'm pleased I put mine over some jumps last year to see how she coped before backing her. It taught her a lot and confirmed her potential. She learnt how to leave the ground without a rider on board and how to sort herself out down a jumping lane before we asked anything of her under saddle. A good education all round in my book.
 
Yep, they jump them quite high over here as 3 year olds. At the KWPN annual stallion grading in Feb each year they are loose jumped and most of these colts are not yet 3. The jumps aren't that high there though but they will have been worked quite hard in the months proceding this event so that they look well muscled.
This is one of the reasons we didn't send our colt to this grading. He is bred for dressage and even the dressage colts are worked very hard to prepare them. We had a place sorted to prepare him but withdrew him when we saw what he would be doing work wise from October onwards. Did not agree with it. I'd rather not have him graded and have a long and happy life then start him too early only to end up with problems later in life as a result. There are also other ways of having him graded at a later age.
 
Bedlam said:
I don't see a problem with loose jumping 3 yr olds a few times before backing - in fact I think it's almost an essential part of education. I'm not sure I agree with quite how high they get on the continent, but then I think they produce specifically to sell rather than produce long term.
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This - I think loose jumping is essential for horses to learn to think for themselves over fences and sort themselves out without a rider. I also believe that allowing a youngster to work this sort of stuff out early on in their education is beneficial mentally and possibly physically (learning to use the correct muscles / laying down the correct foundations). That said, the key is moderation and nothing too large.

I don't have much choice though - I leave Daemon out in the field with fences/ jumping chutes and he takes himself over them :rolleyes:
 
Yes my horse has a sale video of him lose jumping , that fence reaches 1.80m


http://youtu.be/qQZ4rlekTzk

He was just turned 4. When I bought him he was very established at loose schooling, knew exactly what to do and took himself round over the fences so had clearly done it quite a bit

He now 6 and not had a issue but I do worry about his legs and I've took it super slow with him jut incase

He came from Germany.
 
You can get them loose jumping without doing a lot .
But personally I don't bother.
I think there are far worse more damaging things that can be done to youngsters than abit of loose jumping top of my list would be feeding to much and not giving them enough exercise.
 
I'm in favour of a bit of loose jumping but not high or frequently at three, definately something they should do in preparation for seeing small fences at the end of their fourth/breaking year. But as others have said nothing as big as you see in the continent, I'd be thinking no bigger than 80cms loose at three big enough to get them to think about but not big enough that they would be straining to clear it.
 
Proof is in the eating as they say.

Is it worse than racing 2 year olds? Not sure.

They probably do it a few times in a season to sell, either for a video or at a show so I can't imagine trainers/yards making them do it all day everyday as if something happened to them, then there would be nothing to sell.

Also, I don't believe they are plucked out of a field, stuck in a school with jumps and chased to jump a massive hurdle on day 1.

They are bred to be showjumpers and teaching them early, can only be a good thing long term as they learn to balance and travel safely over the jumps without any rider influence.

I'm all for letting youngsters be youngsters, however, if they were bred to worked then it is the responsible thing to do, to prepare them for the life ahead whether that is to introduce them to jumps, or harness or whatever. Would rather accustom a youngster early on rather than pluck it out of a herd at 4yo and do everything in less than 6 months.
 
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There is a big difference between an animal choosing to do something and being forced, by whatever means, to do it.

I've come to training horses from training other species and there is a stage in training I like to call "awareness". This is when an animal's mind is opened up so it looks at a problem from a different angle.

So, last winter, I started feeding my youngsters a handful of hard feed in a small enclosure. Then I laid a pole on the ground across the gate way. I raised the pole a few inches every day. One yearling banged his shins on the pole at 150mm and convinced himself it was impossible to negotiate such a high obstacle! The rest just jumped in and out at will, sometimes at odd moments during the day to check they handn't missed a crumb or two!

That was rather an interesting look into the mind of the horse. The yearling did learn (became aware?) in time that he really could hop over a 6 inch pole (and a lot higher!). Once he'd started, there was no holding him. He became aware of what his capabilities are. Two ponies have since attempted to jump a five bar gate which is not so good as they are learning their limitations!

Has it done any of them any harm? I don't think so. At least, no more harm that they would have inflicted on themselves by jumping a stream or fallen tree. But it could have been a very negative experience if they'd been starved or beaten to get them to jump or had hurt themselves, but even demolishing a gate does not seem to have deterred them.

The unaware: "We can't jump that!"



Awareness awakened: "Oh yes we can!"

 
its a yay from me.

I loose jumped mine at 3. But to be fair, i knew it wouldnt be an issue. As my now 4YO had been jumping everything in his way since he was weeks old. Started with the dock leaves. Rather than walk round, he would jump them ! Then as he got a little older, would jump out his field, leaving his mum behind, then jump back in. So when i put him in the arena at 3 he jumped a small cross pole no problem, but then decided to carry on and jump out of it. His 4 YO half sister (same stallion) is exactly the same. first time i loose jumped her, she loved it. just kept bringing herself back to the fence.

They have only been loosed jumped about 3 times, so its not a regular thing i do.

Personally I wouldnt loose jump before 3. Ive no medical facts to back it up, it just doesnt feel right to me.
 
Bedlam said:
I don't see a problem with loose jumping 3 yr olds a few times before backing - in fact I think it's almost an essential part of education. I'm not sure I agree with quite how high they get on the continent, but then I think they produce specifically to sell rather than produce long term.

I'm pleased I put mine over some jumps last year to see how she coped before backing her. It taught her a lot and confirmed her potential. She learnt how to leave the ground without a rider on board and how to sort herself out down a jumping lane before we asked anything of her under saddle. A good education all round in my book.
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totally agree Bedlam, it's not like they are jumping all day everyday. Just a few times allowing them to figure out their balance. Can't really see a problem with a late 2 year old jumping an occasional single fence (as a one off to see what they can do esp if stallion potential). Not any more strain than they put themselves under in the field.
 
You will not ruin a 3yo by loose jumping in moderation over moderate obstacles. And we don't go chasing them around like loons either. At 2,yes2, we walked Cupcake over a variety of poles on the ground and through the chute with poles on the ground. She also learned how to go through the chute in a contolled manner on her own with poles on the ground. Had one other session in which she jumped a 60cm fence too. Considering I had to go and by the tall poles for a division in her field as she kept jumping to the good grass, this was not a big ask. I also turned her loose in the arena during the winter mud for a bit of fun time. She would jump on her own. Even caught her circle and come back over the fence the other way.

The benefits of loose jumping, done correctly, are many. They learn to think for themselves for a start. They build confidence. I hate seeing people chase horses through a chute. Teaching them correctly means walking to the top and letting them go. Most will trot or canter happily to said fence.

I do despair about certain comments I see over and over again. Properly done loose jumping will not ruin legs and joints. Same with properly done lunging. Unconditioned horses,fat horses, people who don't understand the above will do more harm than good. Having and using your brain helps. Not repeating things you hear without knowledge.

Terri
 
Terri speaking sense as always - I couldn't agree more about the damage done by unconditioned, overweight horses and owners who don't understand the issues or repeat ideas parrot fashion.

As for DryRot, I'd have any of his youngsters in a flash. In fact, I already have, twice ;)
 
I have a 2 yo that jumps the fallen trees in her field for fun. Started doing it at 9mo. I tried to tell her to wait until she's four but, you know, these teenagers... always think they know best :rolleyes:

No, sorry she's not for sale :D
 
Anything done in complete moderation, is a good thing and only will add more experience to them. More groundwork done and a couple of 'new' experiences is all for the better of making a well rounded horse when it's older. Think back to Vienna thinking - everything is done and schooled inhand first, to then just relate it with a rider on board when the horse is as 'made' it can be.
 
ChristmasSparkles said:
Anything done in complete moderation, is a good thing and only will add more experience to them. More groundwork done and a couple of 'new' experiences is all for the better of making a well rounded horse when it's older. Think back to Vienna thinking - everything is done and schooled inhand first, to then just relate it with a rider on board when the horse is as 'made' it can be.
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Except they don't start breaking them until they are around 6 years old
 
Tnavas said:
Except they don't start breaking them until they are around 6 years old
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I wasn't using the same workload in the same sense though just the principles...I meant applying the same lines of thinking on a 'general' level - ie, will long line anywhere, be soft, can faf around doing whatever random event you wish to with it on the ground, seen a bit of everything and generally just easy-going with anything asked of it with no confusion. Asking to pop a jump/pole/whatever once or twice sensibly loose, in the long term, really will have no huge effect done right, I've known youngsters play a lot more boisterously in the field or jump willingly of their own accord.
Jumping it constantly or more than a good handful of times however, obviously will/could potentially cause or contribute to further problems.

Me personally, with the heights of free jumping the OP I'm guessing is on about on sport horses, then no I don't personally agree with that, there's a difference to popping over a 2ft pole once or twice, to a 5ft oxer...however, for the level they've been bred to compete at potentially, I can see why to an extent for the money they'll be asking for the horse in question when it comes selling/sales/etc. However....generally speaking, the horse will swap ownership/be an investment, so 10/15/20 years down the line, they won't be the ones left with any future problems which may or may not be stemmed from that I'm guessing.
 
There's a big difference between people professionally producing horses and the average "I bought a youngster".

The producers aren't looking 15/20 years down the line, they are looking at the saleability of the horse as a youngster.

The "I bought a youngster" people I'm afraid to say include many who are simply impatient. Seemed like a good idea at the time but too long to wait when reality kicks in.

Both scenarios can lead to things not being that great for horses long term.

So better IMO to err on the side of caution.

Has anybody come up with the definitive answer as to why it's necessary for a horse to do something at 3 rather than 4 and why if that window of opportunity is missed it can never be repeated?
Do horses never gain the ability to jump if they are left till 4?

And of course we are talking about structured jumping with the trainer being involved. Not the messing around for themselves in the field.
Does anybody know any horse that won't jump something when out in a field playing around at any age?
It's hardly a sign of potential or the signal that jumping should be included in training at a young age.

My mare (at four) jumps out of fields. The amount of people who say "ooo that shows she is going to be a good jumper".
Ummm......no.
It shows that she wants to be somewhere and there's a fence in the way.
 
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