Loose Jumping - what does it do?

[Stormy123456]

As title really.

Have a five year old, who is a little bit careless over her jumps, and nosey so and so suggested it may be helpful to her. She hasn't ever been loose jumped before at all, nor have I ever done it with any other horses. Usually wouldn't listen to nosey parker, but it's been playing on my mind. :/

 

[millitiger]

i don't loose jump mine as they are all quite forward into their fences and loose jumping tends to end with them taking off 2 strides before the fence and getting flatter and faster- exactly what i don't want them to get into the habit of!

if your mare is careless (but not nutty and fast!) i would be tempted to loose jump her through a fairly short striding grid with canter poles between the fences and see if that helps...

but tbh, i would rather do the above exercise actually riding the horse rather than loose!

what exercises are you doing at the moment with her to work on it?

 

[JustMe22]

We loose jumped my ex-racer a few times before I started jumping him under saddle. Just little, to get him into the idea of what he was meant to be doing.

Now I'm jumping him under saddle so we only loose jump him once a month or 6 weeks or so, but its pretty easy for us as we have the loose ring there anyway with the jump.

I found (with mine anyway) it helped give HIM confidence over the jumps. That is, it gave him confidence in his own ability to get there and get over it with no help from me, and as a result if I put him into a tricky spot (as I did last week, HORRIBLE), he sorts himself out because he trusts his own ability.
It also taught him to tuck his knees a little, and (although I realise millitiger has just argued the opposite of this and I may look stupid ) it taught him to get closer to the base. Coupled with under saddle stuff, his jumping has got much beter. If I watch him free jump now, he fixes his own stride about 4 strides out and sort of bounces his canter a bit more.

Up to you Personally I would try it, it won't do any harm. It worked well for my boy..and its quite standard in our yard full of ex-racers but then there's a lot of things done there that aren't 'traditional'

 

[sywell]

Loose jumping correctly done is most useful in evalueating a horse for its ability to jump are its feet level and does it open its back end. Horses should be walked up to the first element so they do not get too much forward speed. Loose jumping competitions are considered a bad thing.

 

[Stormy123456]

Thanks.

Were only jumping small at the moment (2"3, 2"6), so have been putting canter poles before the jump, and little grids up (which she is still trying to figure out). I think some of the problem lies in the canter, which she's still finding a little hard. She is so bouncy (very compact), that it's difficult to sit, she tends to buck and lose the canter, and then the carelessness comes.

Nosey so and so's theory was, if there was no one on her back, she'd be able to figure out her feet a little more, plus we'd be able to see if she is just plain lazy with them, or if it stems from the canter work. She is also quite careless over XC jumps, which is weird, but then maybe she hasn't worked out they don't fall down.

She can get excitable jumping, and absolutely loves it, has scope to burn, when she does pick up she make's a lovely shape, its just frustrating!

Don't know if these pictures show it but, the rally the other day:

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee28/kimbali123/IMG_8462.jpg
^ I know my bum isn't out the saddle much, but she was bucking a bit before, so it was a attempt at not being catapulted.
http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=1PEY001L050022&po=22&pc=185
^This one also shows her being a bit useless too. :/

 

[kerilli]

loose jumping can be useful but tbh i'm with millitiger, i'd rather be on top to help the horse where necessary and leave her to her own devices where necessary. a good instructor will set up the right exercises to help you both. working on the canter (and working out why she's bucking - saddle?) will help a lot, the jump is very rarely better than the approach, and if the canter and/or bucks are upsetting the approach, i'm not surprised she looks careless etc... sometimes these sorts of horses aren't careless at all, once they sort it out!

 

[natalia]

Actually, I completely disagree with anyone who says loose jumping teaches them to jump flat. I loose jump my horses a lot. It helps them to sort themselves out over a fence rather than relying on the rider, if they make a mistake, I like them to come round and jump the fence again thinking about it and then get it right. You do need a small area for it, or a school with a chute. We have a small school purposefully for lunging and loose work. When you loose jump you make sure they don't come flat by the use of placing poles, combinations, ie small cross, one stride then jump. If you watch the big loose jumping evaluations of stallions ect they never just gallop down to a single fence. Normally they have cross pole, two strides then smaller jump, one or two strides then big fence (or something like that, if you read any guidelines on gradings they will tell you what the horse has to do!) Loose jumping is not only a good way of teaching a horse to have another leg and think for itself, its also how we evaluate all our youngstock and know what horses really can do. I wouldn't even consider buying a youngster from any breeder unless I had seen it jump loose, even if it's only tiny. In general I find a young horse that shows a good attitude to loose jumping, makes a mistake, learns from it and make a nice shape over fence, as well as coming round with ears pricked and looking happy, you can't go far wrong with. And a couple of pics for you, this is my 5 yr old having a loose jump last week-

You can't say she's jumping flat!

 

[millitiger]

Actually, I completely disagree with anyone who says loose jumping teaches them to jump flat.

nobody has said loose jumping teaches horses to jump flat- i said MY horses are already forward enough and without someone to say "wait" to them they take off further and further away from the fence.
what was said was that I find my horses learn a lot more and a lot quicker with someone on their back to give them a guiding hand.

they are still clearing it by feet when loose and it looks very impressive but sheer logic determines that the further away you take off the flatter the bascule.

a lot of NH horses show a lovely shape over the fence but it doesn't mean i want my horse to tackle jumps in the same way.

When you loose jump you make sure they don't come flat by the use of placing poles, combinations, ie small cross, one stride then jump. If you watch the big loose jumping evaluations of stallions ect they never just gallop down to a single fence.

if you have an extremely brave and forward horse though, she will take on the fence anyway she likes regardless of placing poles- sometimes she sees the pole as the place to take off!

Loose jumping is not only a good way of teaching a horse to have another leg and think for itself, its also how we evaluate all our youngstock and know what horses really can do.

there are of course, lots of horses who have won a lot of loose jumping comps and never gone on to replicate the scope when under saddle so i don't hold them in that high a regard.

its horses for courses isn't it i suppose? i've never had a horse who has improved greatly from loose jumping and get much more out of a 30 min session under saddle.
mine all have a loose jumping session for their first jump as i like them to understand how to jump before putting weight on their backs- however as soon as they understand how to get all 4 feet off the floor over the fence i would rather be on their back

 

[posie_honey]

well i tried it with my mare for the first time last night - i've lunged her over jumps quite a bit - so thought we'd try loose schooling as i'v got an enclosed arena for the first time....

she did a beautiful jump steady approach, rounded and trotted away nicely afterwards...

alas she hadn't jumepd the nice 2ft pole i'd put out.... but the 3'6 arena post and rail fence... trotted away - turned round and gave the the horse metaphorical two fingers lol- so that told me!!

so for me - it shows me the madam is not willing to entertain the idea

not much help sorry

 

[SW3]

those who use loose jumping, how would you introduce it to a horse's training? I've never asked a horse to loose jump - is it difficult to do?

 

[natalia]

Millitiger,- "if you have an extremely brave and forward horse though, she will take on the fence anyway she likes regardless of placing poles- sometimes she sees the pole as the place to take off! "

I actually really disagree with this and its up to the person on the floor to not let her do it! My horses are all very forward in to a fence and loose jumping actually helps me to help them naturally back off a bit. Mainly by doing exercises which engage their brains, rather than just letting them run at it. I can loose mine in trot or canter and can also by the use of poles and exercises help them to either stand off (which I don't want them doing) or get them in very deep and really use their shoulders. If your horse see's one pole as take off pole then add more, do a line of canter poles then jump. You can easily loose a horse through a grid which is really useful when you don't want riders interference. I agree there are a lot of horses that show a better shape loose than under saddle and don't always live up to loose jumping honours BUT how much of this is influenced by bad riding and training and having a rider on top that won't allow the horse to make it's true shape, badly fitted tack ect? When we evaluate youngsters loose, we are looking more for attitude than technique, which can be taught by exercises loose and under saddle. If they have a half basic technique but maybe drop a leg, not as good behind as you want, you can change all that, what you can't change is attitude to tackling fences and the ability to learn from mistakes quickly. As a general rule I would loose jump a horse about 20 cm over the height they are jumping under saddle as part of training, as the horse gets stronger, learns more and gets a better technique, the fence size will increase. Ie our horses that jump 1.20m under saddle will jump 1.40 loose to learn more for themselves over bigger fences. I want my horses to be able to jump from anywhere, not just the rider influenced spot, as everyone makes mistakes and the ability to get oneself out of trouble can never be underrated! In general my young horses are loose jumped or have grid work under saddle once a week. They are then popped round a course day before a show and most out once a week. They rest is a mixture of hacking and flat work and lunging. Our local BS trainer takes people and their horses for loose jumping lessons at her yard, which is a really good idea as she teaches them how to do it properly. If you are going to loose jump your horse I think its important to not go in to it with the "chase them over a fence approach" and make sure there is at least 2/3 people on the floor to help you.

 

[millitiger]

ok, how do you suggest i stop her from doing it when she is loose?

this is a mare who doesn't lunge well either as she clearly knows she is out of reach and therefore can do what she likes!

Millie can jump a fence from absolutely anywhere, on any stride, any angle etc- i have allowed her to do that under saddle though and she has always been like a cat in front of the fences, so quick to adjust.

however, loose she just likes to jump the way she wants- which is extremely fast!
i am not sure how you could back her off a fence from the floor without either overfacing her or standing in front of her- i have never known a horse so bold!

as an aside, why don't you send the horses down a grid but with a rider on?
that way you still teach the horse to think for itself, learn where to take off etc but you also educate the rider about how to sit still and allow the horse to do the above?

the bonus imo, is that the horse learns to think for itself with the weight of the rider which will be there in comps, the rider learns to sit and allow the horse to jump and you have much more control IF it is needed.

 

[natalia]

Millitiger- loose work shouldn't just be about the fences, you want her to come down through a line which includes some placing poles. Once of mine is quite similar and would like to come very quick in to a fence and run the last three strides if you let her. Loose jumping has helped. We start with pole then stride to cross, then 4 /5 canter poles to jumping out of this with a small oxer. This is teaching the horse to hit it right every stride as your setting it up. You need to work on getting your horses paces consistent when loose so lots and lots of pole work. The reason with a forward horse I would be tempted to loose jump more is that in event of her not getting her feet out the way quickly enough and you perhaps making a mistake you could end up in proper do do. Certainly the case with my grey. I'm not saying it should replace and form of ridden schooling, but can be a handy back up to it. This is why i like doing it with my forward ones as I want them to relax and come slower. Is she jumping fast to get it over with quickly? Does she actually enjoy it? Why do it loose not under saddle- easy, because if you do it both loose and under saddle then your able to see how the horse jumps yourself, teach it again to think more for itself and have minimum interference. Also, by jumping loose you can see areas the horse needs technique improving, see how it thinks and works. I am better able to spot problems early on from watching on the floor esp if I'm having to jump my horses on my own with no one training from the floor. A horse should enjoy loose jumping too, and it gives them a break. We have had several show jumpers come in that have jacked it and often getting them to jump loose really helps get them back on form and attack their fences again, often good horses who have been sold to am. homes and missed once to many times. I think it does a lot for the horses self confidence. I also think that by loose jumping a horse and establishing this your will produce a better am. horse, and therefore one that is more sellable. The main problem with horses which are only ridden by pro's is that they need very consistent placing and are much less forgiving. I really think that by teaching a horse to jump loose you can encourage it to be more forgiving of its rider. FYI we buy and sell a lot and mostly to am. homes so this is really important to our production of easy genuine horses.
Back to OP with the dangly legged pony, your pony just looks a bit clueless. I would prob loose jump under supervision but also small grids and lots and lots of V bars to get her picking her snapping her front legs up. I would be keeping XC very small until she learns to pick up properly then take her XC schooling, no boots on, let her hit herself a few times and hopefully she'll learn.

 

[millitiger]

i've already said that placing poles make no difference to her when she is loose though!
she doesn't mind if she ends up with a front foot either side of the pole etc so it doesn't regulate her stride properly.
she is very relaxed and certainly not ever worried about jumping- she jumps fast because she really enjoys it and just likes to jump as much as possible. typical opinionated mare who knows best

i'd rather ride and work on my feel as well- you can ride to a fence with absolutely no interference- it just requires a bit of mental strength to see they are about to make a mistake and allow it to happen so they learn.

i'm certainly not a pro and as i said before Millie (and all of my horses before her) can jump off any stride you like and a few you wouldn't! she knows how to save my bacon if necessary!

as i said in my last post, i think it is horses for courses.
mine don't jump loose as it doesn't teach them anything and i would rather be sat on their backs and feeling what is right or wrong.

perhaps its because my lot seem to have plenty of self confidence?
perhaps i would feel differently if i had a horse who was unconfident but in that situation i would probably rather be on its back so i can 'hold its hand' as i find that seems to work when they are lacking confidence.

you find loose jumping really works, i don't and tbh i think we could be here till dawn discussing it!

 

[siennamum]

well i tried it with my mare for the first time last night - i've lunged her over jumps quite a bit - so thought we'd try loose schooling as i'v got an enclosed arena for the first time....

she did a beautiful jump steady approach, rounded and trotted away nicely afterwards...

alas she hadn't jumepd the nice 2ft pole i'd put out.... but the 3'6 arena post and rail fence... trotted away - turned round and gave the the horse metaphorical two fingers lol- so that told me!!

so for me - it shows me the madam is not willing to entertain the idea

not much help sorry

Brilliant...

 

[Stormy123456]

Thank you for your help. Think we'll leave it for a while, get some more experience and schooling, and then have a rethink. Apprciate both sides of the fence.

Millitiger: Have no idea about the bucking or where it's coming from really, she's had her saddle checked in April, he said it was a near perfect fit and back lady came yesterday and said she was fine. She hasn't always bucked, but once she starts she lost her concentration, and apparently I ride defensively (have come off once so far) when she bucks, but I don't really know how else to ride, Just focus on staying on. :/

 

[3DE]

It could be that you are overfolding on what are quite small jumps. If you fold a little too soon it could put your mare offbalance causing her to knock the fence

 

[sophs_c]

I tried loose jumping mine over a small grid of 2ft 6 fences, to which he cantered off round the school and popped over the 1.40 gate and back to his stable..
Needless to say he can jump!