Lucinda green Clinic - I Confess to Being a Little Disappointed.............

[charlimouse]

..............But not in my horse, she was awesome !

First up this morning was a session in the arena, over loads of skinnies, arrowheads etc. Working on control, so starting off in trot, before progressing to canter. Once all the horses amd riders were focused on the job inhand, we did a few combinations on unknown distances to improve the horses footwork. We then progressed onto jumping from walk over some blocks. Jem being a horse of minimal effot just walked through the blocks pushing them out of her way ! We then worked on doing an emergency stop on long reins slightly Mary King style, fro when we have to slip our reins XC. Morning session over, it was a long wait for XC this afternoon.

Off XC, we spent 5 minutes just jumping some straightforwards fences, getting them into a rhythm, and to blow away the cobwebs. I was disappointed to find most of the fences were off limits due to the BE event being run at the venue at the end of March , so we were pretty limited in what we could do, and most of the fences were only about 90cm. Started off walking over a ditch. Jem took Lucinda a little too literally when she said she didn't mind if the horses put a foot in the ditch, by climbing down into it hoof by hoof ! We then added a sheep feeder after, before jumping the full coffin. Jumped a few lines of fences incorporating the coffin, and some angles. Found a couple of bigger fences so I headed off and jumped those, before coming back and jumping a log, turn to a fence in the hedge line, then a turning 3 strides to an arrowhead.

Back to a combination incorporating barrels, to an into space, down a drop turn to a skinny single barrel. Jem caught me out first time by runnung past the barrel . Made her jump it from a very tight turn back, before jumping the whole combination well. Finally we went to play in the water. had a paddle first, before jumping out up a step in walk. We then jumped in over some blue barrels, before finally jumping over the blue barrels that had been put in the edge of the step. I then linked a corner and log in just to make sure Jem was on the ball.

Now if you have got this far you may have noticed, whilst describing the exercises we did, I haven't said much else. This is due to the fact there really isn't anything else to say . I didn't get any feedback, I just did the exercises I was told to do, competently and that was it. I don't think it helped I was the only one in the group wanting to progress beyond BE100, and Lucinda was just kind of like, 'well you can jump that fence if you want'. Nobody else in the group did, but despite this I still got no feedback from LG when I took myself off to jump the more difficult fences. I don't know weather this is a good or bad thing. I didn't earn a single well done, nor were any corrections or comments made. It was like I wasn't there . I just feel for £120 I didn't get much out of it. It would have been more productive to have taken myself off to Somerford Park on my own to jump some more combinations and play round some more interesting fences.

Ho hum, at least I know my horse was brilliant ! A flat/SJclinic with Ginny turnbull next week and then off to Somerford BE100 to kick off the event season, can't wait !

 

[FrodoBeutlin]

Uhm, what do you mean, no feedback? No comments or corrections made at all? What about the other participants, did they get more feedback? That does sound a little disappointing, £120 is a lot of money for not a lot of training

 

[LEC]

I would be rather peed off if me. Not to say anything, even to talk about your aims and discuss them is pretty poor. £120 is a lot of money as well especially if there is 4 in your group that is £620!!

 

[teapot]

Gah that's disappointing, think this is the first negative feedback I've read or been told about an LG clinic

Hope next week's one is better

 

[charlimouse]

Uhm, what do you mean, no feedback? No comments or corrections made at all? What about the other participants, did they get more feedback? That does sound a little disappointing, £120 is a lot of money for not a lot of training

No nothing, no comment was made, it was like I wasn't there

I would be rather peed off if me. Not to say anything, even to talk about your aims and discuss them is pretty poor. £120 is a lot of money as well especially if there is 4 in your group that is £620!!

We had a brief minute at the beginning just saying what we had done, but nothing else. I did keep trying to remind her I plan to go Novice this season, but we were very limited by the fences available, so we made them as difficult as possible, but just a little feedback would have been nice. There were 5 of us in the group !

Gah that's disappointing, think this is the first negative feedback I've read or been told about an LG clinic

Hope next week's one is better

It should be as it is free !

 

[vicky86]

I had a lesson with lucinda a few years back, had a good lesson but not tonnes of feed back i have to say. My horse did not get the walk to a ditch concept either, however it was a bit more problematic with him as the ditch was deep (and quite sizey) he put his foot down it, i fell off and he scared himself to death. Subsequently he stopped and the next ditch I attempted which he had never done,in his life, not even the first time he did one, it took me a good long while to get his confidence back and up to the last event I did on him was a bit suspicious of them.
I understood the concept behind why we were doing it and don't blame lucinda it was just one of those things but I kind of wish I'd never done it. Btw he had evented for about 6 years by then up to novice level and had never misjudged a ditch before so I don't feel he was unsafe or too blarzay about them.
Sorry your lesson wasn't great but your horse looks lovely.

 

[Rosiefan]

How would walking an experienced eventer through a ditch be useful? Genuine question, I'm not trying to be clever.

 

[oldvic]

I suspect that LG is more geared to giving confidence to less experienced horses and riders. As a rider she is more instinctive than a technician so her way is fairly surface. She tends to select shorter striding types that suits her "get behind them and kick" style and always said she found the rangier types harder to ride. These are the ones that require technique as well as instinct.
Frustrating but take it that you weren't giving her too much obvious to say.

 

[vicky86]

How would walking an experienced eventer through a ditch be useful? Genuine question, I'm not trying to be clever.

Apparently it was to make him realise where his feet were. He obviously could only work out his foot positioning at trot or above .

 

[opinionuk]

I must confess that i went to one of her clinics last year and was also a little disappointed, I found it was a little ' going through the motions' and wasn't offered much feedback as to what I was doing right or wrong while my horse bounced about on her hind legs, I wouldn't go to one of her clinics again I didn't feel as if I actually learnt anything.

 

[fayemouse123]

I couldnt agree more, I was really disappointed in my Lucinda Green clinic too. The most fun and beneficial part like you say was going off and jumping some fences on my own! I do think her clinics are good if you have very young horse, or are struggling a lot with straightness, skinnies and rushing, as the exercises from walk give young horses time to take everything and work things out for themselves and the skinny work in the arena definitely gets them straight and channelled between hand an leg. However even though I was riding a friends green horse I still found the clinic too slow and whilst she did give me a few useful pointers these were few and far between x

 

[LEC]

I suspect that LG is more geared to giving confidence to less experienced horses and riders. As a rider she is more instinctive than a technician so her way is fairly surface. She tends to select shorter striding types that suits her "get behind them and kick" style and always said she found the rangier types harder to ride. These are the ones that require technique as well as instinct.
Frustrating but take it that you weren't giving her too much obvious to say.

That is a really interesting summary OV - who do you think are the modern xc gurus? I would love a session with Blyth Tait but I understand he is not a big fan of teaching. I always loved his books.

 

[avthechav]

Sorry to hear that this was not quite what you needed. I think that XC clinics are sometimes very expensive for what you get out of them. I am also very wary after a horrific clinic at Moreton Morrell where I was reduced to tears for about an hour and half by a really nasty and unhelpful BHS instructor. I think that nowadays instead of risking a confidence blowing session or at best an ok session I would rather save up and pay for a lesson with an instructor who knows me at a local xc course.

 

[DarkHorseB]

That is a really interesting summary OV - who do you think are the modern xc gurus? I would love a session with Blyth Tait but I understand he is not a big fan of teaching. I always loved his books.

I have had 4 lessons with Blyth Tait (all in an arena) and have to say have found him to be a very inspiring and interested teacher

 

[soupdragon71]

That is a really interesting summary OV - who do you think are the modern xc gurus? I would love a session with Blyth Tait but I understand he is not a big fan of teaching. I always loved his books.

Have had a couple of lessons with Blyth, at Mistatiger's place (admittedly in indoor school, but definetely related to xc as well as sj) and he is a brilliant teacher - so encouraging, enthusiastic and makes the lesson a lot of fun! He got on my horse as he was being a prat to start and all I could think was 'a world champion is riding my horse!'. Of course he made him look amazing (as always;p). I don't know how much teaching he does, but if you get a chance do it, as he really is good an wasn't stupidly expensive either.

 

[kerilli]

OP, i've had the same in a LG clinic (have been on quite a few), and the one where she ignored me, I was on my very nice obedient but unflashy little homebred (rock solid Intermediate horse) and we did every exercise totally competently as instructed, but with no 'wow' moments (including when LG wandered in front of the skinny she'd just told me to jump, oops). she doesn't seem to have a lot to say if you are doing a decent job (and the best in the group?) i suspect... she's very very good, as oldvic says, at instilling confidence and a bit of verve though, I think.
frustrating to be restricted to the small fences, but it sounds as if you and Jem went really well.
tbf it's better than being ripped apart!

 

[DarkHorseB]

That's disappointing CM
How did you feel it differed to the lesson you had with Millie which you felt really gave you the impetus to get to the next level?

 

[TopTotty]

Well.....please don't get me started.....I went for a two day clinic at Arena Uk, with two horses, two years ago.... stayed the first day for the indoor jumping but was so downhearted by the end of it I just wanted to cry. She spent all her time on the 'professionals' in my group and I just felt crap and left out.....we left and drove 4 hours home! I complained and she told me that no one had EVER complained before!!!! I told her that if I had given a lesson and someone came away feeling like I did I would be gutted........no reponse!!
I had been the previous year with one horse as I won a lesson with her and it was good....but as Charlimouse says....no feedback just a raz over some fences and then jumping xc out of walk.

Charlimouse.....I have just been to Somerford this week.....we decided after that lesson that we would just do it ourselves!!

On another note whilst I was at Somerford this week we saw another BIG name giving a lesson and it was carnage.....overfacing of horses.....a nightmare from where we were standing....

 

[soupdragon71]

I have had 4 lessons with Blyth Tait (all in an arena) and have to say have found him to be a very inspiring and interested teacher

- snap!!

 

[JoJo_]

Gosh that doesnt sound worth the money. You probably would have been better to hire an xc course on your own to practice! I have to say when I watched the LG clinic they have put on H&C tv many many times, she seemed to only have anything to say when a combination was really struggling.

 

[Fools Motto]

Not had a LG clinic yet, want to do the Downlands one, but expense of it puts me off, now this news has put me off further.
I have had a Nick Gauntlet clinic at west wilts. I was REALLY disappointed by him arriving 30 mins late, and within 10 mins we moved outside to start jumping. I really wanted advice on the flatwork as that is our weakness. He only told me to smile more and enjoy it!!!
Anyway, the showjumping was great, and the XC - well, I was just used as a 'lead horse' as several others were very ditch shy..... after giving about 50 leads over several ditches, and getting bored I took my chance while being told to link 2 jumps and a ditch together I added some of the other jumps into the mix!! I think, if I looked closely, I may have got a nod of approval!! Nick was fine at the end, but the lack of flatwork for me (promised 2.5 hrs of all three phases combined) did make me feel a little let down.
Anyway, going back to LG, I guess she is a lady of little words when things are done so perfectly, so you are obviously total stars!!!

 

[charlimouse]

I suspect that LG is more geared to giving confidence to less experienced horses and riders. As a rider she is more instinctive than a technician so her way is fairly surface. She tends to select shorter striding types that suits her "get behind them and kick" style and always said she found the rangier types harder to ride. These are the ones that require technique as well as instinct.
Frustrating but take it that you weren't giving her too much obvious to say.

I assume I wasn't doing anything hideously wrong ! Interesting thoughts.

I must confess that i went to one of her clinics last year and was also a little disappointed, I found it was a little ' going through the motions' and wasn't offered much feedback as to what I was doing right or wrong while my horse bounced about on her hind legs, I wouldn't go to one of her clinics again I didn't feel as if I actually learnt anything.

Yes, there was definately a 'going through the motions' feel to it !

OP, i've had the same in a LG clinic (have been on quite a few), and the one where she ignored me, I was on my very nice obedient but unflashy little homebred (rock solid Intermediate horse) and we did every exercise totally competently as instructed, but with no 'wow' moments (including when LG wandered in front of the skinny she'd just told me to jump, oops). she doesn't seem to have a lot to say if you are doing a decent job (and the best in the group?) i suspect... she's very very good, as oldvic says, at instilling confidence and a bit of verve though, I think.
frustrating to be restricted to the small fences, but it sounds as if you and Jem went really well.
tbf it's better than being ripped apart!

Agree with this competely. Jem is very obedient, but is a very unremarkable bay TB mare. She is very rhythmic and just puts in the required effot over a fence. Nothing flashy or hugely inspiring, but correct.

That's disappointing CM
How did you feel it differed to the lesson you had with Millie which you felt really gave you the impetus to get to the next level?

The situation with Millie was a bit different. I was far less experianced. I had only done 2 PN's and due to some c*ck up when doing the groups I ended up in a group with Intermediate horses . Little Millie pulled out all the stops, and not only kept up with the other horses, but put a couple to shame . LG was raving about her, because we were expecting nothing, and she surprised us.

 

[Third_Time_Lucky]

OP - After reading your post I'm slightly relieved I wasn't able to get a place for today's clinic. I applied but it was full and was put on the wait list, received a call Wednesday this week and asked if I wanted to attend tomorrow as she was running an additional day at Thirsk as they had been inundated with applications.

I wasn't able to take up the place for tomorrow as had other plans so instead (as I had already booked the day off work) went with friends XC schooling and had a really good session (concentrating on jumping skinnies/ditches etc). Certainly seems I had the better deal, only cost me £15 to go schooling, the money I've saved (£105) not going to Thirsk will get me a few extra lessons with my dressage trainer.

 

[georgiegirl]

OP - After reading your post I'm slightly relieved I wasn't able to get a place for today's clinic. I applied but it was full and was put on the wait list, received a call Wednesday this week and asked if I wanted to attend tomorrow as she was running an additional day at Thirsk as they had been inundated with applications.

I wasn't able to take up the place for tomorrow as had other plans so instead (as I had already booked the day off work) went with friends XC schooling and had a really good session (concentrating on jumping skinnies/ditches etc). Certainly seems I had the better deal, only cost me £15 to go schooling, the money I've saved (£105) not going to Thirsk will get me a few extra lessons with my dressage trainer.

where did you go schooling out of interest as were hoping to get out and about soon but quite a lot of courses are normally not open until the end of april round here

charliemouse - sorry to hear the lesson sounded rather uninspiring! had we been fit enough I probably would have booked autumn in for it but kind of glad I didnt now! Its a shame the one gary parsonage is running at bishop is straight after the BE - would have liked to have found out what his teaching is like.

 

[TarrSteps]

Interesting. I went to one of her clinics years ago now . . . with a plain bay, big striding horse who always did the minimum (but was very competitive) and had a similar experience. I had one specific issue she did address when I asked but it was mostly to tell me not to worry about it, which was helpful for me to hear from someone of her stature at the time. At the end she went down the line, giving everyone compliments and things to work on, got to me and said, "Well, you have a good rapport with your horse." I took this to mean "You're pretty awful but somehow your odd horse jumps for you." I have to say, I know she didn't mean it the way I took it but it really upset me and put my overall riding back. That was in the days when her clinics tended to be quite scary - there certainly was little discussion of analysis or technique but I'm interested to hear it's still an issue with some people.

I do know people who have got a great deal out of her clinics though, so I don't think it should necessarily put people off. Her approach works very well for some, especially people without a deep xc background. I find all clinicians (and instructors) have people they work better or worse for and it's a rare person who can really help everyone, including people who ride in a way they don't usually teach or horses they don't like. (Mark Todd told me straight out he didn't like the horse I was riding - fair enough, I didn't much either but I wasn't paying - and I still got a lot out of the clinic though.)

 

[oldvic]

That is a really interesting summary OV - who do you think are the modern xc gurus? I would love a session with Blyth Tait but I understand he is not a big fan of teaching. I always loved his books.

A hard question to answer as there aren't really the XC gurus like there were in the days of Lady Hugh Russell, Bertie Hill, Lars Sederholm, etc. I would agree about Blyth. Like all the good kiwis, he instinctive but backed by excellent technical knowledge. David O'Connor would be one but that is no help over here! I haven't seen the likes of Caroline Moore, Emma Fisher, Lizzel and Eric Winter teach so can't comment although they are high in th BE system as,of course, is Yogi. From hearsay all have a lot to offer some but aren't for everyone - but then who is?
Just remember that success doesn't necessarily mean a high level of technical knowledge and this is a requirement for teaching.

 

[TarrSteps]

In fact it can be argued that people who have developed their successful approach organically, rather than from a system, through study (even after the fact) are perhaps less equipped to analyse and assist other riders because they don't always know how and why they do what they do. I don't think it's a coincidence that David O' Connor's mother was herself a renowned teacher and author on the subject of eventing. He also worked with a wide range of other people and had always been markedly open to other approaches. (Even the dreaded Parelli! )

Also pedagogy is a skill in itself, separate from whatever skill is being taught. As with any other ability, not everyone possess it to the same degree. Like riding, it takes practice but, also like riding, simply doing a lot of it does not guarantee excellence.

 

[Circe]

Also pedagogy is a skill in itself, separate from whatever skill is being taught. As with any other ability, not everyone possess it to the same degree. Like riding, it takes practice but, also like riding, simply doing a lot of it does not guarantee excellence.

Had to google pedagogy , but yes, it might be a simple case of not being a skilled teacher, even though LG is obviously an extremely skilled rider.
I dont know about LG, but I certainly know extremely intelligent people who find it extremely hard to explain something, mainly because they "get it," and cant understand why others don't.
Kx

 

[Rosiefan]

Apparently it was to make him realise where his feet were. He obviously could only work out his foot positioning at trot or above .

Thank you for trying to explain .

I think Rosie will only ever pay for training herself with the one-to-one trainers she uses most of the time. She hasn't got a great deal from any of the names she's done clinics with as far as I know - even the junior team trainers except for Lizzel and Yogi - but if someone else is paying she'll give it a go .
Everybody's different though so it's worth a go but annoying if it doesn't help when it's so costly

 

[kerilli]

In fact it can be argued that people who have developed their successful approach organically, rather than from a system, through study (even after the fact) are perhaps less equipped to analyse and assist other riders because they don't always know how and why they do what they do. I don't think it's a coincidence that David O' Connor's mother was herself a renowned teacher and author on the subject of eventing. He also worked with a wide range of other people and had always been markedly open to other approaches. (Even the dreaded Parelli! )

Also pedagogy is a skill in itself, separate from whatever skill is being taught. As with any other ability, not everyone possess it to the same degree. Like riding, it takes practice but, also like riding, simply doing a lot of it does not guarantee excellence.

Absolutely. I've been taught by people who were such naturals that they just couldn't understand why/how I was having a problem, let alone how to sort it. Very frustrating all round...

DO'C was very hot on the difference between instinct and technique at the Hartpury lect/demo. He said the guinea-pig riders had great instincts but needed to improve their technique. fascinating stuff.

LG is a weird one, because she's really ace for certain people (i saw her turn a stiff, nervous only-ridden-at-a-riding-school rider into a keen, competent-xc-rider in 2 hours once) but ignores others - she gets distracted by a few and then ignores the others. (a couple of people fell off at MK when I did a clinic with her there, she hadn't been paying attention, turned to us and said 'did anyone see what happened?' ermmm....) sometimes she's just not paying attention (as when she stood in front of the skinny she'd just told me to jump, she was chatting to someone else, forgot she'd told me to come and jump it, i came round the corner and had to suddenly circle away because i assumed she'd move, and she didn't. she apologised though!)
i'd only send a specific type of rider for 1 of her clinics now. fof had a bad fall at MK in a LG clinic, going down PN steps on buckle end (on purpose, that was the exercise) she lost balance and came off the back, ouch. i know of someone who had an absolutely horrific purler of a fall at a LG clinic too, having been told to jump a fence the wrong way.