Lucinda's comment about Toytown getting it wrong in the SJ.

kerilli

kerilli

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Was anyone else surprised by this? Lucinda (who i have enormous respect for, she's a great rider, a great trainer and usually tells it just how it is!) wrote:
"Poor Zara Phillips had to contend with Toytown having a blond moment as he spooked on take-off and landed in the middle of a show jump. I like to blame the rider if possible, but this was a rare incident of horse miscalculation."
Umm, with all due respect to Zara, who is also a great rider (i wish i rode that well), i think the horse, like many others, landed a bit short over the previous small oxer, she then rode for a normal 4 strides, and just didn't get the distance. basically, she missed. i don't think it was the horse's fault at all! okay, if he'd had his brain in (or been more used to his rider missing!) he could have flung himself in the air from the spot he was at, but i don't think it was his fault.
Mary nearly did the same thing, realised 2 strides away that she was off the fence, and went for a brave long one... thank goodness!
what does everyone else think? and i really am not criticising either of them... maybe the editors at the Telegraph rehashed her words. hmm.
 
I think that is a huge insult to Toytown. I think that Zara was not going in any sort of a rythym whatsoever and sat there like a rag doll when she should have been pushing forwards fast and quick to try make that four strides. She landed short at the oxer before so she must have realised that she was not going to make the distance.
 
It really is unfair of her to say something like that I agree! A horse like Toytown does not have 'blonde moments' they know their job backwards!
 
But I saw more than one rider 'get it wrong' but their horses helped them out and either fiddled strides or went on a very long one!

As he came to the jump I thought he was looking at the crowd behind the fence.
 
agree with SM - Toytown could have helped his rider out a bit more - and certainly didn't need to knock the d**n thing down at the 2nd attempt.

so I reckon it was 50:50 - maybe more zara at first attemp and more tt at 2nd attempt.

either way - Lucinda was wrong.
 
From what I remember, I actually think he came to the fence before wrong too - it looked like he either went disunited or came back to trot for a couple of strides, then landed and was going nowhere. Think TBH it was a combination of the two (Zara and the horse!). As Zara was clearly gutted, and has worked so hard on Toytown's SJ, and must have been thrilled he did not blow up in the dressage, perhaps Lucinda is giving her the benefit of the doubt - after all it would be rubbing salt in the wound to read in a national paper that a highly respected horsewoman like Lucinda is saying 'and if she'd just done X it may have been ok'.

Do you see what I mean? Trying to soften the blow a bit, given that also the world's media are obsessive about the Royals and would not have missed a chance for a Daily Mail moment...
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As soon as she landed over the oxer I said out loud "ride forwards Zara" and I had my hands over my face as she sat and faffed a bit - TT could deffo have helped her out more, but for me it was just an unfortunate "oooooh sh*t" minute from both rider and horse.
 
I actually said to OH as she came round the turn to the upright that she had started riding him backwards. It was no surprise that she missed at the oxer therefore. TT was about 3/4's of a stride short at the oxer and to those who think he could or should have gone from there, I might just remind you that the fence was 1.30m with a good spread on it.....even though it didn't look much more than a Newcomers on TV due to the width of the poles
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Actually, I watched about the last 6 or 7 showjump and was quite shocked at how poor some of it was...the obvious exception was the winner, Nicholas Touzaint, who rode a SJ'ers round on a horse that looked like a SJ'er
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I agree, Zara got it wrong for not riding forward. She lost a lot of momentum just before the fence before THE fence(!) and therefore landed short and needed to push on but didn't. That was definately her fault but having got it wrong, Toytown could so have helped her out from where they were - very unlike him not to too! I bet Zara really thought he would as she approached. Such a shame. He seemed a little pre-occupied looking beyond the fence, as he did the second time.

I agree with the person above that Lucinda probably thought it would be too harsh to pile all the blame on Zara when she is clearly devastated already!
 
There were several riders who came down that line and appeared to be rather backwards, Zara was not alone though she perhaps did rather close the canter completely at the fence before. Should imagine she is quite cross with herself.
 
I agree with a couple of others. Zara made the mistake at the previous fence by over checking, for me it was this that created the problem in the next distance. BTW what was with the comment of 4 for a refusal & 4 for knocking it down (whilst refusing) Surely they either presented or they didnt or have the rules changed in eventing?
 
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BTW what was with the comment of 4 for a refusal & 4 for knocking it down (whilst refusing) Surely they either presented or they didnt or have the rules changed in eventing?

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that's what I thought too Freshman - I was like what is Tina talking about, which is what Clare Balding was saying too - you either knock it down or refuse, you surely don't get faults for both, do you?
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To me it looked like Zara checked too much at the fence before and Toytown half trotted behind. Then she landed slightly short and didn't ride forward enough. Maybe nerves got to her.
 
Kristina was talking rubbish, it was kjust 4 for the refusal and then time faults ifshe went over the time. From what I remeber she started hooking like mad before the upright, he crawled over it and was never going to jump the oxer cleanly. He probably made the right descision in stopping
 
Nah, you only get time faults on exceeding the time allowed. In some sj speed classes a knock down when jumping the fence can count as 4 secs added. Do any of the eventing bods know the ruling on this one? I really would be interested to know.
You would think Lucinda would get abreast of the rules if she is going to commentate. Bet it's a well paid job.
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you get 4 faults for the stop, irrespective of whether the horse bumps into it and knocks it down or not. Tina was making it up as she went along!
if he'd made a bid to jump it and gone through it immediately, instead of stopping, knocking it down, and then going, the judges wouldn't have rung the bell, stopped her, made her do it again etc. she could have gotten away with just the 4 for a knock-down then.
(as did Pippa when she won the Euros on Supreme Rock and fluffed the distance to the last, and they ploughed through it! faults for hitting the fence only)
 
I was the same as Weezy when she came to the fence before and almost came to a standstill. It was painfully obvious (with the luxury of being sat on the sofa watching of course!
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)that there was no momentum and they were lucky to get over the upright, never mind the oxer.

Really sad for her as she didn't deserve to drop down to 6th after doing so well in the dressage and XC.

Maybe TT could have tried a little harder, it did look like he was a bit distracted, but he certainly wasn't on a perfect stride to it.
 
I think you're right, I knew there was a rule like that if the fence has to be rebuilt. The thing is whenever Zara's managed to get TT to jump clear she HAS to keep the throttle really low, if she rides him forwards he's quite happy to have them down. I guess she didn't want to kick him down that distance because she thought he'd have it down if she did, instead relying on his scope to jump them out of trouble when they got there. I am sure she has reridden it a million times in her head, I still think a first and a 6th in european championships and a world title too in the last 24 months isn't bad
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As he came to the jump I thought he was looking at the crowd behind the fence.

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Yes, this was what I thought too - his eye seemed to be clearly taken off the fence by something in the distance imo.
 
She got it wrong, she landed and was way off and sat still. Mary did a similar thing, however realised and pushed on to get the longer stride in to the fence and made it

It didnt look the easiest line to ride, but I would say Zara didnt have the best of rounds
 
Yeah I just watched it again. She overchecked way too much at the fence before, landed too short, and then just sat there instead of reacting and pushing him onto to make up the ground.

I am sure he would have helped her out if she'd actually pushed him for it like Mary King did.
 
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In showjumping rounds you get 4 seconds added to the time if the judge has to stop the clock...then if that takes you over the time allowed, you get time penalties...perhaps thats what Tina meant.

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The above also applies to the show jumping phase of eventing under B.E. rules (68c)

 
Maybe Lucinda was just being nice as I expect Zara is beating herself about it.
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She looked as if she was worrying about having something down if he got too quick so was fiddling lots, but forgot she actually had to get over everything.
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I suppose when your on such a bold horses you don't think about stops in the SJ. It's got to be hard under soooo much pressure!!! I couldn't cope at all!!
 
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