Lumps on horse’s forehead, EMS?

[ponyparty]

Bruce has come up in some weird lumps on his forehead. They are not bothering him and he’s behaving normally.
Someone on an EMS group on Facebook posted that her horse had the same thing a couple of days ago. He’s been going out on grass for a bit longer this week (muzzled, up to 4 hrs per day) as my Laminitis App was on green; but today it has shot up to red, so I can only assume as the sugars are so much higher in the grass it’s some sort of metabolic response. Just wanted to know if anyone else has seen this before?

Sorry it’s a rubbish photo, hopefully you can see what I mean but if not I will screen grab the other person’s photo as you can see it on her horse much more clearly - it’s EXACTLY the same as my boy tonight!

Going to keep him off grass altogether tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[ester]

If you do a search for user BBP and temporalis muscles a similar thread will come up.

I’d actually wonder if it’s a result of how he is using the muzzle.

 

[ponyparty]

I’ve got up this morning to find he has 3 fat, hot legs too. He pulled a shoe the other day - the only leg with no inflammation is the one with the shoe still on.
Walked him for 10 mins and cold hosed while I waited for vets to open, to no effect. Vet will be here about 10am.
One thing after another with this horse!!

Will have a read of that thread while I wait for the vet, thanks ester!

 

[ponyparty]

Fat legs are lymphoedema but vet stumped as to why only 3 legs. Vet also stumped as to why his temporalis muscles are enlarged. I am deffo going to investigate this further. Heat in the fat legs so she’s injected with ABs and bute, advises exercise him and cold hose again and let her know how he is tomorrow.

I’ve decided to put a hoof boot on the hoof he’s lost a shoe from in front, in case this has anything to do with it?! And have lunged half heartedly - I didn’t really sleep last night and or night before and feel like a zombie.

Going home for a nap now, he’s turned out on hard standing so he can move around, with soaked hay. Will come back and exercise and cold hose again this afternoon and reassess.

 

[ester]

Have you watched how he eats in the muzzle, mine tends to bite down quite hard on the ground in his and Id suspect that may have caused muscle enlargement but he has too much forelock that I’d have noticed

 

[racebuddy]

Strange and only 3 legs too bless him hope he’s better tomoz

 

[BBP]

Hi, yes my pony had these temporalis muscles very pronounced. They are one of the major muscles involved with chewing, along with the big masseter muscles. Apparently if the horse has changed it’s bite pattern and is doing more of an up down bite than a side to side chew then the temporalis can be overworked and start to hypertrophy/grow more pronounced. With my horse, he was suffering terrible hayfever (plus sacroiliac and ulcer pain) and I believe he got bad headaches, which I think then led to tension in his jaw and TMJ pain. I treated all these pain sources and his temporalis muscles smoothed right down to nearly flat as a result of reduced tension. But in summer if the hayfever comes back the muscles start to over develop again and his eyes get a pained look.

So I’d suggest your horsehas developed some sort of bite disfunction for some reason if this is new to him. I see loads of images of horses with big temporalis muscles and their owners say they are perfectly happy but having seen mine go from huge to flat I can’t help but wonder if those horses also have some sort of dysfunction.

I’d suggest dentist check and then some sort of osteopath check for tension in the jaw.

 

[ester]

glad you spotted it BBP, I was on my phone yesterday so it wasn't so easy to search and I couldn't offhand remember what the conclusion was!

 

[BBP]

Weird pony issues are my speciality apparently! 😀

 

[ester]

I nearly said something along the lines of 'as part of BBP's long list of odd issues'

 

[racebuddy]

How is he today xx

 

[ponyparty]

Sorry for delayed response!

His legs had returned to normal by yesterday morning.

His temporalis muscles are still enlarged - I couldn't find BBP's previous posts, as I was on my phone rather than laptop and I can barely work the mobile site. I will have a look today, thanks for the summary though BBP and the advice. Looks like there is something else going on, whether that's related to his other conditions or not.

He last saw the dentist in March, dentist said he shouldn't need to see him for 12 months. But if something has changed then I will do that. Funny that the vet was stumped by it too and didn't have any suggestions.

Awaiting the invoice from the vets this morning, sigh. It would be a weekend callout wouldn't it. Bleddy horses.

To top it off, turned him out with his muzzle on yesterday, forgot to put fly mask over the top and he got it off. So he potentially had up to 3.5 hours on grass with no muzzle on... Hoping no ill effects from that either!

 

[ponyparty]

Have messaged my equine dentist, and sent the photo, to see if he can shed any light on the matter and to book an appointment.

 

[ester]

https://forums-secure.horseandhound...ictures)-anatomy-experts&highlight=temporalis

 

[ponyparty]

Thanks ester - it came up as soon as I searched it, on my computer. Not when I tried on my phone though, grr.
Definitely the same - dentist getting back to me with appointment, will try and observe him eating tonight as well to see if I can detect anything odd.
If dentist says nothing wrong with teeth... allergy maybe?

 

[ester]

I would if I were you film him eating with the muzzle on so that you can show it to the dentist.

 

[ponyparty]

I would if I were you film him eating with the muzzle on so that you can show it to the dentist.

Ooh good shout! Will definitely do that.

 

[ponyparty]

Dentist has been today - no evidence of anything that should be causing him discomfort in his mouth, odd bite action etc.

She has cautiously suggested it could be sinus/pollen/allergy related, and that the enlarged muscles feel more fluid-filled than hard/spasming muscles. There is one tiny possible spot of decay on a tooth but so mild that she can't imagine it could be causing this swelling, and not on both sides. She's said the vet might want to look at that to confirm.

He was very good for the dentist back in March, stood really nicely, but today he was restless and trying to evade her, to the point I had to leave the stable for fear of the bump getting squished. He was only like it with the gag on though - he was fine with her hand rasping without the gag. So having his mouth opened like that was clearly uncomfortable for him, bless him. He was really trying to be good, I could see the whites of his eyes and he was just looking at me over the stable door, I was in bits (I'm crying at the drop of a hat anyway today!).

Vet is coming out next Friday anyway, to reassess kissing spines/hock arthritis, so I'll ask him then.

He's got a myofascial release massage booked for Saturday - I wanted him to have a treatment in any case, as he's been doing all this rehab work, just thought it would be a good time for it. So I'll see what she thinks too, and possibly get her to write a report for the vet.

Odd that the vet I had out for the lymphoedema/lymphangitis didn't really comment on it at all, she had no suggestions as to what it could be. I should have pushed it, but was more concerned about the fat legs at the time.