lunge aids/training aids?

[bubblensqueak]

hi, i was wondering what everyone's opinions on lunge aids/training aids. side reins, draw reins, pessoa, bungee, the 'soft lunge aid', the de gogue, the chambon, and i know theres many more, those are just ones off the top of my head. what does everyone think of them? which are gentlest? and which should be avoided? *im not going to use them i prefer hard work than short cuts, im just wondering*

 

[windand rain]

I dont like any of them by definition anything that speeds up training is force. hard work never hurt anyone and short cuts often do

 

[bubblensqueak]

I dont like any of them by definition anything that speeds up training is force. hard work never hurt anyone and short cuts often do

exactly my thoughts!

 

[tallyho!]

They are falling out of favour because they yield short term "results" with lasting bad effects.

When you look at at the beautiful perfect anatomy of a horse and build exercises based on the biomechanics of this glorious beast... whilst hard, you will get so much more out of him/her. No gadget further than a cavesson is needed really.

May I suggest the book by Klaus Schoneich - correct movement in horses - if you can get one. It'll give you a great foundation and refine your training.

Training is all dressage is. Doing it without force is better.

 

[bubblensqueak]

i see them all over social media, pinning the horses head down. its a short term short cut.

 

[tallyho!]

I didn't see your end bit.. ha ha sorry!

Absolutely. People are trying to make money and they have every right but we have the right to choose not to buy and and not be swayed, learning to blinker out ads like that.

There's no law against it sadly. Perhaps there ought to be a label wit traffic light system to owners on a scale from least cruel to most cruel.

 

[milliepops]

well I would not be as black and white as some, I think some have a place in training or more usually retraining a horse, but you need to be careful, observant and thoughtful about what you are using and when. same as anything really. you can misuse a headcollar.

I don't have a problem with correctly fitted side reins for lunging occasionally. I don't tend to lunge horses very much and I normally use 2 lines. but sometimes side reins or vienna reins can be useful to just guide the horse in the right direction while you concentrate on something else. Accepting that they aren't going to teach the horse how to take the contact perfectly, there's a place for something giving light guidance to a horse that is learning the job.
i'd probably put side reins on my welsh if I was going to do piaffe work in hand, it would allow me to retain control of the front easily so I could work on the hindlegs.

I will probably be evicted from HHO for the transgression but I used draw reins on my ex racer to stop him from shooting across the school every time something caught his eye. I couldn't teach him a better way of dealing with things because he hollowed so fast and so determinedly that I was instantly out of control and it happened multiple times every session. A few months later and he's developing nicely, is calmer, because he is more able to listen to me so doesn't do the erupt first-think later thing. I'm happy that it was the right choice at the time, it was safe and he has come out of it understanding much more of what he needs to know.

so there's a time and a place, to me, but you do have to be a fairly competent person and also question what you are trying to achieve and how it fits into the bigger picture of training your horse. I see them as tools that might bridge gaps - you still need to fill in the gaps but sometimes the order of things has to be changed away from the ideal in order to do so.

 

[bubblensqueak]

well I would not be as black and white as some, I think some have a place in training or more usually retraining a horse, but you need to be careful, observant and thoughtful about what you are using and when. same as anything really. you can misuse a headcollar.

I don't have a problem with correctly fitted side reins for lunging occasionally. I don't tend to lunge horses very much and I normally use 2 lines. but sometimes side reins or vienna reins can be useful to just guide the horse in the right direction while you concentrate on something else. Accepting that they aren't going to teach the horse how to take the contact perfectly, there's a place for something giving light guidance to a horse that is learning the job.
i'd probably put side reins on my welsh if I was going to do piaffe work in hand, it would allow me to retain control of the front easily so I could work on the hindlegs.

I will probably be evicted from HHO for the transgression but I used draw reins on my ex racer to stop him from shooting across the school every time something caught his eye. I couldn't teach him a better way of dealing with things because he hollowed so fast and so determinedly that I was instantly out of control and it happened multiple times every session. A few months later and he's developing nicely, is calmer, because he is more able to listen to me so doesn't do the erupt first-think later thing. I'm happy that it was the right choice at the time, it was safe and he has come out of it understanding much more of what he needs to know.

so there's a time and a place, to me, but you do have to be a fairly competent person and also question what you are trying to achieve and how it fits into the bigger picture of training your horse. I see them as tools that might bridge gaps - you still need to fill in the gaps but sometimes the order of things has to be changed away from the ideal in order to do so.

hahah i dont think im going to be doing piaffes anytime soon! i do understand your point though, and from a safety point of view, i can see how they are a very valuable aid.

 

[milliepops]

hahah i dont think im going to be doing piaffes anytime soon! i do understand your point though, and from a safety point of view, i can see how they are a very valuable aid.

well yeah. I don't think you can really do anything in the way of training until you are safe on a horse. I am sure many will disagree with the approach I took but it sits fine with me, when he couldn't take control in that microsecond he was able to hear an instruction instead and so started to learn what it was I wanted.

The measure for me, is how does the horse go in between times. If it's getting steadily better than the aid is doing its job, or at least is not detrimental to your training. if it's not improving, then it's the wrong tool or the wrong time or the wrong application.

 

[tallyho!]

I think the reason why these gadgets have come about (side reins too) is that in-hand training fell out of fashion after the 1st war. It was all about quick training. Before that you would see in-hand a staple - the long way but the sure way. It's only just coming back thanks to the dedication of a handful of people in Europe trying to preserve these valuable teachings.

I'm not sure if we have overcome the war hangover though - afterwards the BHS (50's 60's manuals) was all about quick results so many people still hold this as gospel.

We are no longer at war.. what is the rush?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

hi, i was wondering what everyone's opinions on lunge aids/training aids. side reins, draw reins, pessoa, bungee, the 'soft lunge aid', the de gogue, the chambon, and i know theres many more, those are just ones off the top of my head. what does everyone think of them? which are gentlest? and which should be avoided? *im not going to use them i prefer hard work than short cuts, im just wondering*

I have used all in the past and still have all in my trunk only use them rarely but side reins more often

 

[ycbm]

I think the reason why these gadgets have come about (side reins too) is that in-hand training fell out of fashion after the 1st war. It was all about quick training. Before that you would see in-hand a staple - the long way but the sure way. It's only just coming back thanks to the dedication of a handful of people in Europe trying to preserve these valuable teachings.

I'm not sure if we have overcome the war hangover though - afterwards the BHS (50's 60's manuals) was all about quick results so many people still hold this as gospel.

We are no longer at war.. what is the rush?

I'm pretty sure the classical riders have been training horses in side reins and running reins for centuries.

 

[ycbm]

I'm with MP, some gadgets are fine for safety. A lungee bungee on a newly broken horse to give the rider confidence, draw reins on an overreactive one to prevent accidents, but everything in moderation.

There's a thread running about the pessoa at the moment and nobody commenting thinks that's a good idea at all.

.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Many years ago, a friend of mine went to stay with a friend in Germany. While there she had a riding lesson. She rode a little British bred mare and was horrified to find that the horses were ridden in tight side reins. Was not impressed at all. This would have been in the 80's.

 

[Shay]

I'm with Milliepops. Training aids do have a place but only when the user knows how to use them, knows how to fit them and when to stop. I have used pretty much most of them I think over the years - the only exception being the pessoa which has sat pretty much unused in its bag (Anyone want one?). And I never bought its cousin the equi-ami. But there is a place for the suitable and appropriate use of aids. Lunge lines and a cavesson are also a training aid!

 

[wren123]

I've used a chambon for reschooling a hollow horse, after it had a full vet check. It served it's purpose on that horse as a means to get it working long and low on the lunge, I could push the horse forward without it hollowing, but I wouldn't use it for some horses who it can just push further on the forehand. I think it has a use as a relatively quick fix, I'm not so keen on side reins unless they are adjusted for different paces plus there is no give in them like a good riders hands.

I'd never use a pessoa.

 

[bubblensqueak]

does anyone know which is the harshest and which is most gentle?

 

[Otherwise]

does anyone know which is the harshest and which is most gentle?

That all depends on whose hands it's in

 

[tallyho!]

does anyone know which is the harshest and which is most gentle?

I started training in classical lunging and in hand training roughly 15 years ago and I've found it very hard to convince people it's really easy and teaches horses how to use their own body really quite quickly. It's as if it's some mystery that has lots of scary knowledge - it really isn't. The amount of horses my teachers have had to correct because they've had these gadgets imposed on them early in their training just shows how bad it can get.

Anyway, I don't know if the lady/man that wrote sustainable dressage is still updating their website but it's still up http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php good info.

If anyone want's to learn in hand, you could try straightness training or legerete.