Lunging the Kerilli way - any photos?

Lady La La

Lady La La

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I've been trying to lunge little tb the 'Kerilli way' for a while now, in a bid to encourage her to work longer and lower. She just doesn't seem to get it :o I've persevered with it for a while now, with no success. If the draw reins are attached to a cavesson she'll just blindly ignore any pressure and go around with her head as high as she can manage, if they are attached to the bit, she will sock herself in the gob and then persuade herself she can no longer go forwards..
Do you have photos that I can scrutinize to ensure that my draw reins are the correct length/generally study to see if I'm doing anything I shouldn't be?

Is it just a case of practice makes perfect, keep going and one day she'll grasp it?
 
there have been lots of threads about it in CR if you do a search, with lots of pictures, and i put a couple of vids on youtube yonks ago iirc.
there is the odd one that just doesn't get it, but most do. i'd definitely keep it to a cavesson until she understands. it sounds as though you have it too long if she just ignores it. fwiw i usually knot my draw-reins to make them the right length, and shorten them by roughly 10" ish total.
btw, it wasn't my idea, it's as used by Laura B, and was first mentioned on here by another poster anyway...

vid at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkCuVUSt4OM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0tGUV-jW4Q
 
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kerilli said:
there have been lots of threads about it in CR if you do a search, with lots of pictures, and i put a couple of vids on youtube yonks ago iirc.
there is the odd one that just doesn't get it, but most do. i'd definitely keep it to a cavesson until she understands. it sounds as though you have it too long if she just ignores it. fwiw i usually knot my draw-reins to make them the right length, and shorten them by roughly 10" ish total.
btw, it wasn't my idea, it's as used by Laura B, and was first mentioned on here by another poster anyway...

vid at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkCuVUSt4OM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0tGUV-jW4Q
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I know, sorry :o Its just I saw your videos on youtube and as I dont know the correct name for it (if there is one?) I named it the Kerilli way in my head :p
I'll do a quick search in CR now, thanks. I think it might just be that I need to shorten the draw reins. I have a full sized set on her and although I've knotted the end I think perhaps I need to shorten them a tad more.
 
no probs, i wasn't telling you off! i just don't want credit where it isn't due at all. ;) ;) it was Bossanova who first posted about them on here, I couldn't remember who it was 5 mins ago!
i'd definitely try them a bit shorter. obviously don't concentrate on the front end though, the horse needs to be swinging through from behind etc etc.
 
Have watched both videos and what I see is the both horses being exercised in a low frame - however without the channeling of the side reins neither horse was able to work correctly, - that is being bent uniformily around the circle - what I saw is both horses looking out of the circle most of the time.

The pressure on the whither will be the reason why the horse will drop it's head down to loosen the reins, try pressing hard on the equivalent bone in your neck - it hurts.

Will stick to my side reins. If it's good enough for the Spanish Riding School - then it's good enough for us mere mortals. They have after all been around for centuries unlike Laura B (can't spell her name).
 
the pressure is not on the wither, the reins sit further back than that, especially in canter they move back a little. they aren't anchored anywhere, which is deliberate - they can be anchored by a roller.
i like the horse to swing along in a relaxed way, long and low-ish... i don't mind whether you call that 'exercise' or 'work'! ;) ;)
 
Evelyn said:
Have watched both videos and what I see is the both horses being exercised in a low frame - however without the channeling of the side reins neither horse was able to work correctly, - that is being bent uniformily around the circle - what I saw is both horses looking out of the circle most of the time.

The pressure on the whither will be the reason why the horse will drop it's head down to loosen the reins, try pressing hard on the equivalent bone in your neck - it hurts.

Will stick to my side reins. If it's good enough for the Spanish Riding School - then it's good enough for us mere mortals. They have after all been around for centuries unlike Laura B (can't spell her name).
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I fail to see how side reins are going to teach my horse to work 'long and low' which you'll see from my initial post is what I'm hoping to achieve.
She goes beautifully in side reins (if a little on the forehand) she also goes in a correct outline under saddle.. it's just we've hit a bit of a mental block with working in a longer, lower frame.
 
Lady La La said:
I fail to see how side reins are going to teach my horse to work 'long and low' which you'll see from my initial post is what I'm hoping to achieve.
She goes beautifully in side reins (if a little on the forehand) she also goes in a correct outline under saddle.. it's just we've hit a bit of a mental block with working in a longer, lower frame.
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What length do you have the side reins? I've never had problems with not getting on the ground long and low in side reins, but it does mean that the reins have to allow the horse to be able to take the contact forward and down. Try Lengthening the side reins and lunge her forward into the contact you've set up.
 
Evelyn said:
What length do you have the side reins? I've never had problems with not getting on the ground long and low in side reins, but it does mean that the reins have to allow the horse to be able to take the contact forward and down. Try Lengthening the side reins and lunge her forward into the contact you've set up.
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I'll have a hunt for some photos to try and show you what I mean, but I find with sideys it's where they are positioned on the roller that causes her to fall onto her forehand and lean on the bit, rather than the length -if that makes sense?
When ridden she needs a strong leg to keep her active behind as she does have a tendencey to drop down infront and lunging her in side reins seems to aid her in doing this.
Sorry, I know I've gone totally off the long and low topic.. I'll try your suggestion with the side reins and will compare it to the draw reins and see what I end up with! If I could jUST learn to ride better there'd be no need for any of this :o
 
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Is this not just like lunging with a harbridge, or side reins between the legs? but with out the risk of rubbing the horses elbows/arm pits? Which I guess could also effect the horses movement and they might not want to bring the front leg back far enough??
 
Erin said:
Is this not just like lunging with a harbridge, or side reins between the legs? but with out the risk of rubbing the horses elbows/arm pits? Which I guess could also effect the horses movement and they might not want to bring the front leg back far enough??
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quite new to the long and low way of working so i find all techniques really interesting have to say was taught recently to use a chambon and really like this method as it really encourages the horse to work down and forward but i suppose its personal and horsey preference and how you think your horse should be working
 
Lady La La said:
I'll have a hunt for some photos to try and show you what I mean, but I find with sideys it's where they are positioned on the roller that causes her to fall onto her forehand and lean on the bit, rather than the length -if that makes sense?
When ridden she needs a strong leg to keep her active behind as she does have a tendencey to drop down infront and lunging her in side reins seems to aid her in doing this.
Sorry, I know I've gone totally off the long and low topic.. I'll try your suggestion with the side reins and will compare it to the draw reins and see what I end up with! If I could jUST learn to ride better there'd be no need for any of this :o
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I know what you mean by her going on the forehand when the side reins are low down - I realised that I only use this in the very early days of lungeing. After that I have them on the top ring on the roller and sometimes crossed over at the wither - right hand side rein goes over the neck to left bit ring and left hand side rein to the right bit ring.

The reins do need to be long and the handler needs to drive the horse forward well with plenty of transitions and half halts.
 
I use this technique with my horse. He responds well when it is attached to the bit but the other day I tried it attached to the cavesson and he just stuck his head in the air and ignored it. Even when I tightened it quite a lot.
 
The best way to work a horse long and low on the lunge is with vienna reins (long reins with a buckle at either end that fit like draw reins or running reins depending on what you want). They don't need to be tight but it is hard for them to avoid the contact and they learn to face it and look to take the contact forward and down. By quietly pushing them forward with the lunge whip, making transitions and decreasing and increasing the circle you can work them to come up in the shoulder and into a better balance. The advantage of this over a chambon is that the horse learn to connect up and accept the contact whereas the chambon releases when they stretch so, although the head comes down, it is very easy for the horse to drop the whole front end and stay flat and stiff in the back.
 
Evelyn said:
I know what you mean by her going on the forehand when the side reins are low down - I realised that I only use this in the very early days of lungeing. After that I have them on the top ring on the roller and sometimes crossed over at the wither - right hand side rein goes over the neck to left bit ring and left hand side rein to the right bit ring.

The reins do need to be long and the handler needs to drive the horse forward well with plenty of transitions and half halts.
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Just out of interest, why do you cross the side reins over at the withers?
 
Evelyn said:
Will stick to my side reins. If it's good enough for the Spanish Riding School - then it's good enough for us mere mortals. They have after all been around for centuries unlike Laura B (can't spell her name).
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The horses, instructors and students at the SRS train for years, and are immersed in the classical style of dressage. IMO side reins should never be used by "mere mortals" who have absolutely no idea what they are looking for in the horse when they are using them. It is for me equivalent to saying "i use draw reins cos so and so uses them" and blat around on an overbent horse with its backend in some part of next week.

Any gadget is only as good as the person using it. IMO side reins used by "mere mortals" only produce a horse that sits behind the vertical and helps to deaden the mouth.

At least with the "laura b (me either:D)" method the horse has some freedom on the contact.

:)
 
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