LWVTB. Safe To Do As A Seller?

[Elsbells]

I have buyer for my pony. Theyve tried him this afternoon and are very keen to have him. They appear to offer the perfect home and for him to go to a young girl and go out and have fun I couldn't be happier with although I know it will be a hard wrench to my heart to let him go.
They could clearly see that hes my boy, everyone coments on it so I'm not suprised and because of this, they have said that they would like to have him on loan for 4 weeks, just enough to see him settled.
They are clearly caring people but my concern now is, ok, what happens if they break my not so cheap pony and lame him in those 4 weeks? Not saying they will, or god forbid it would be through lack of care, but horses are horses and ponies are ponies and 13 year old girls like to have fun after all and things can and do happen.

 

[Hipo]

Are they close enough to come to you for that period of time rather than taking your pony away? I wouldn't be that keen to send my pony off on trial, but we have in the past had one on trial, everything worked well and we bought the pony.

 

[gallopingby]

No! Not safe however keen they are. Best option, if they are keen and you as well, is that they have him on trial from your yard. You simply don't know what may happen once he's left you.

 

[FfionWinnie]

If it's a decent price and will be a sought after type you won't need to LWVTB. If it's been for sale for a while and no takers and the home is a great one, that's when it's worth considering.

 

[Elsbells]

They are an hour away. The pony is not the issue, its me they are concered about and the tight relationship I have with the pony, they are concerned he will not settle with them as he's so attached to me. I get those longing looks from him and he's like my big puppy dawg. Great daft thing!
I am concerned at sending him out of sight tbh.

 

[Elsbells]

If it's a decent price and will be a sought after type you won't need to LWVTB. If it's been for sale for a while and no takers and the home is a great one, that's when it's worth considering.

I do have another interested buyer who I'm sure would just buy as he is with no LWVTB. However I did like the young rider and so did he I think. It's a tricky one. They're coming back tomorrow with daddy to do a deal, I need to make my mind up and stick to it.

 

[catroo]

Safer for a seller to take money in full and offer to refund if he doesn't settle.

 

[Elsbells]

Safer for a seller to take money in full and offer to refund if he doesn't settle.

Yep. I think this is the way to go. Thanks

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Yep. I think this is the way to go. Thanks

But please please please, for your sake and theirs, if you decide to do this make sure you have it all in writing. X amount for the horse, paid on X date. The 4 week period ends on X date, in which time if the horse is not as desired, a full refund will be awarded upon the return of the horse safely to X premises. The horse has X, X, and X vices, disclosed in the attached advert, along with photos of any blemished etc.

I know this may seem OTT, but any selling of a live animal which is likely to be a prolonged process, where things are subject to opinion make me nervous. You don't want him to throw a splint within 2 weeks, that he did not leave your yard with, and then have to refund and take the animal back for example. (Although it sounds as though you have such a bond that you would, but you know what I mean)

 

[Elsbells]

No vices and no blemishes, not even sweetitch! Yes, hes a sought after type and a Mr chilled out boy so I don't see any issue with his move to a new home. Mmmm, I'm thinking no LWVTB or the promise of return should it not work out, though of course I would do just that for the pony sake and my aching heart ....sniff!

 

[Wheels]

I have done before but not under these circumstances. Mine was actually a loan for three months where they would buy if he suited, keep on loan for a longer period or return if he didn't suit. He wasn't really for sale but a friend of a friend approached me to lwvtb and this was the arrangement

Your potential buyers are really after a trial and as you have other interested parties I would just say no in this instance.

It sounds a bit like they are playing to your sensitivities about this horse saying it's because of his attachment to you - sounds a bit fishy

 

[Shay]

Even the firm offer of a refund is fraught with risk - as you say.. what if they break him? You could I suppose have him 5* vetted before he goes so you have a record of his condition to compare against. And a previous poster has mentioned a tight contract.

In practice if he doesn't settle you would probably want to have him back anyway rather than have him passed pillar to post. But my experience with LWVTB (From the buyer's perspective) is that you are never fully committed to the horse. You have a set period of time within which you want to try everything so you don't give the horse any time or space to settle. You just crack on, every day with the question "is this for me?" in the back of your mind.

I have done it several times - as a buyer only. Mostly with SJ competition ponies which, to be honest, you tend to treat as a tool more than something to build a relationship with. It has to move on when the child turns 16 so it isn't going to be a horse for life. But also more recently with 2 for hunting. (One worked - the other vetted out). It isn't - in my view - a good way to begin a relationship. Especially one where there could be issues settling. Yes I did it. I might well do it again. But I would never sell something that way.

 

[Equi]

I had lwvtb and worked well. I wasn't 100% sure I wanted the horse due to several issues but I wasn't willing to send him back to that owner either.

 

[OldieButGoodie]

I did it and never saw any money. To make matters worse I didn't get the pony back either! I would never be so trusting again. Thankfully I'm much older and wiser now.

 

[twiggy2]

I wouldn't, you either want to sell him or you don't, they either want to buy him or they don't?
If you don't want to sell him then offer him on full long term loan but it sounds like both parties need to make a decision and stick with it.

 

[MagicMelon]

No! Not safe however keen they are. Best option, if they are keen and you as well, is that they have him on trial from your yard. You simply don't know what may happen once he's left you.

This. I get asked this over and over every time I offer a horse for sale, drives me nuts. I just say to people they're welcome to try the horse at my place as many times as they like - even if they want to come and basically have him as their own for a month is fine by me but he doesnt leave my yard and I keep a close eye. He's your horse, they could do so much damage to him and then you have to pick up the pieces either in retraining or financially.

I once allowed one of mine to go on a 2 week trial to a lady a 3 hour drive away, biggest mistake ever. The day before the 2 weeks was up she emailed me to say she was returning him because her farrier had said his "pelvis was out", I mean WTF bizarre excuse is that! Anyway, I told her I wanted my horse returned within 2 days so she sent him on a lorry with a friend driving it. The lorry seemed to disappear for several hours so I had to make frantic phone calls to find out where my horse was as I knew what time he'd left hers, she just kept saying the lorry driver was on a lunch break (?!?!) so poor horse arrived with NO travel stuff on (even though Id provided it all and it was in the cab part!) so he'd rubbed his tail and about 6 hours later that he should have arrived. He was extremely thirsty and hungry, I was so mad. Then to top it off she'd seemingly only chucked in some of the tack Id lent her - so she's basically stripped my saddle and bridle and hadn't given back my stirrup leathers, stirrups, reins, bit etc. I was so mad, she just said "oh are they yours?" OF COURSE THEY ARE. I then couldnt ride my horse for a week since half his tack was missing until she eventually bothered to return all of it. She seemed perfectly nice and trustworthy, Id checked the home prior and dropped the horse off to her - NEVER AGAIN!

On another occassion, I had a lovely horse who was mechanically lame but enjoyed hacking still. I offered him on permanent loan (so I would have him back once he wasnt hackable basically) to a lady who seemed very nice. I checked the livery yard (again 3 hours away) and all seemed ok. I let her have him and told her Id return to check him in a month but she was meantime to keep in touch very regularly with photos etc. so I could check he was ok and settling etc. Within that month I was contacted out of the blue by two people who had been on that livery yard telling me to get my horse out of there. Turned out the family was a total nutjob who had been done for assault and abuse The husband was about to pack his job in as he could "earn more on benefits". They'd seen the lady leave warm rugs on my horse on hot days to the point he was sweating and he'd got pinworm which they weren't treating. I contacted her immediately giving an excuse that I missed him too much and wanted him back so was collecting him the very next day. She cried and knew something was up, she asked if someone had slagged her off to me etc. but due to their history of assault etc. I didnt want an arguement at the yard or for them to harm my horse so I just pretended i knew nothing. It was very awkward picking my boy up lets just say! The death glares I got from them was pretty horrific. I took him home with the trailer swinging from side to side the whole way home as he was itching his tail so badly due to the pinworm and will never loan in any form again.

 

[Leo Walker]

My instructor did it when she was a kid. The pony ended up broken and being returned. She never came back into work and her parents paid for her to be kept on retirement livery for decades!

The only way you could do it, is to sell and receive payment and then agree to refund if it doesnt work out, but only if the horse is sound and as sold. Its only what most people would do anyway.

 

[sidsmum]

People do lwvtb but personally I wouldn't. I had a youngster who I had bought as a project to back and then sell and my answer was always to say that they were welcome to come and try him as often as they liked but whoever passed me the money first (so long as they were suitable of course - I had to turn a fair few novices away who wanted a just lightly backed youngster) could buy him.

Too many people can't make decisions and expect you to take the horse off of the market whilst they think about it!

I think horses will settle eventually - it just might take longer if you have a strong bond, but they do adapt. So long as the new people are willing to take the time to get to know the horse and not just get on and immediately expect a fantastic rapport - it just takes time.

Good luck!

 

[JillA]

Really what they are asking is a months trial, and I would only ever allow a trial if the horse stayed with me. They can come and catch, groom ride whatever but under my supervision.
They can do a lot of damage in a month and then send it back less of a horse than it was. If they insist on LWVTB, make it a far longer period, such as six months with a hefty deposit and a properly worded agreement (I can let you have one I have used in the past). That way if they find he isn't the horse for them and they have spoiled him in some way (handling, riding, schooling, it all has the potential) they will have to get him back on track instead of just sending him back.

 

[Irish gal]

Don't do this, you're asking for trouble. However nice these people seem you don't know them. Even through no fault of theirs he could have a field accident and be returned to you broken and worthless.

If they are any way good horse people your pony will settle fine. I don't mean to sound harsh but your attachment to the pony could get you into trouble here. Either you want to sell him and give him over to another entirely or you want to keep him - its one or the other I'm afraid.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I wouldn't, you either want to sell him or you don't, they either want to buy him or they don't?
If you don't want to sell him then offer him on full long term loan but it sounds like both parties need to make a decision and stick with it.

This. Are you completely sure that you even want to sell him, OP? It sort of sounds from your posts that you don't.

 

[Equi]

I guess I'm the exception then hahaha I have made the horse ten times better than he was givin to me. This seller does it a lot tho, sends them out on loan for a year to get fattened up and worked then tells loaner they are for sale and need returned or bought.

 

[Clannad48]

Please, please don't do it. We did this - let our pony go on a month lwvtb to a family from our pony club - all recommended by DC and instructors - we made clear the couple of issues that the pony had - three weeks later she comes back to us, hopping lame having been thrashed around the school every day by their daughters. Their reason for not buying - the issues we had told them about prior to the loan - they just wanted a pony for their daughter for the month prior to another purchase arriving. I was absolutely furious.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

And on the other hand I asked for a pony on LWVTB as it was for my young son. Had a loan agreement drawn up and price agreed upon. The seller was more than happy and I actively encouraged her to visit. I kept in contact with the owner and transferred the money when we wanted to purchase.

We have another on loan now with a view to buy if we want. It is a case of finding the right people. If you feel uncomfortable then don't do it. Simple!

I've let one of my ponies go for loan with an agreement, they ended up buying her. I'm not sure I would let another go out on loan now though. The horror stories do tend to worry you.

 

[CazD]

I've just bought one after LWVTB. I wouldn't have bought her without the loan period first as she has slight sweet itch and, having never dealt with sweet itch and having read the horror stories about it, I wouldn't have even considered her. The trial period made my mind up that the sweet itch wasn't too bad and I was happy to buy her. We had an agreement signed up and full insurance, just in case something went wrong though.

 

[Elsbells]

Thankyou everyone and I guess that's a no then?! ��.
Well I have an update. Poor boy came up from the field lame this afternoon so no sale obviously and an embarrassed me! I know why so I'm not to panicked. I have a badly broken wrist and that is the reason that the boy had been put up for sale. I probably won't be able to ride or do a lot of anything until the spring according to the surgeon, so I thought to sell would be the best option for me and the pony,
The buyers turned up after several weeks of nothing and also after I'd had the ponys shoes removed for the duration! If I slap a set back on he'd be fine but dashing up and down the track and jumping yesterday, has left him foot sore and we are back to square 1. Do I get him shod and call them or let him go and spend the winter with a friends horse in the field 24/7 and come back to me in the spring? I'm thinking the latter TBH.
Horses....who'd have them!

Thankyou for helping me see the light and all your replies have been most helpful.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Thankyou everyone and I guess that's a no then?! ��.
Well I have an update. Poor boy came up from the field lame this afternoon so no sale obviously and an embarrassed me! I know why so I'm not to panicked. I have a badly broken wrist and that is the reason that the boy had been put up for sale. I probably won't be able to ride or do a lot of anything until the spring according to the surgeon, so I thought to sell would be the best option for me and the pony,
The buyers turned up after several weeks of nothing and also after I'd had the ponys shoes removed for the duration! If I slap a set back on he'd be fine but dashing up and down the track and jumping yesterday, has left him foot sore and we are back to square 1. Do I get him shod and call them or let him go and spend the winter with a friends horse in the field 24/7 and come back to me in the spring? I'm thinking the latter TBH.
Horses....who'd have them!

Thankyou for helping me see the light and all your replies have been most helpful.

I'd hang onto him. Well, not literally, with the wrist and all, but you know what I mean! Hope you're both soon on the mend.

 

[Elsbells]

I'd hang onto him. Well, not literally, with the wrist and all, but you know what I mean! Hope you're both soon on the mend.

Thankyou. I blow hot and cold and need to sort my head out, it's unfair on everyone else I know that. Loosing my mare last Year and becoming so attached to a 14.2 pony during such a difficult time, was certainly not in the plan and now this break?!?? Makes me want to scream!

 

[Circe]

Really, from what you say, I think you will regret selling him. I'd be inclined to turn him away and bring him back on in the spring. Then think again if you want to sell.
Kx

 

[southerncomfort]

Agree with the above. You have very sound practical reasons to sell, however you adore the pony and I think you will hugely regret it if you let him go. From what you say, the family really don't sound ideal at all and I think any arrangement will cause you more stress in the long term.

Just turn him away for the Winter and you'll have something to look forward to in Spring when your wrist is all mended.