Maintaining the trot

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Cassy

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My cob will now go from walk to trot after one ask of my legs but the quality of the trot is poor. I don't want to be nagging at her every few strides and she bucks if I use a schooling whip. The only thing that makes her move on in trot is swinging the reins across her neck like a cowboy! This is not easy as I have then ride with the reins in one hand and then the steering goes to pot! I have tried transitions: walk to trot and halt to trot but things don't seem to be improving. She is 10 years old and was in a riding school for the last 5 years and sometimes used for the RDA. I wanted a steadier Neddy as my last horse but need a bit more go!
 
Have you tried out hacking? It isn't uncommon for horses to lack impulsionn in the school but they often step out better when out and about with others. If she still shambles along even out hacking then you might want to check for hock or SI problems. Don't assume there isn't pain behind this and keep hitting her. It could be (and probably is) just cob stubborness. But you need a better way to work through this than violence. But if she steps out just fine when she's out then spend some time with a good instructor so you can learn how to get the best out of her.
 
as soon as the trot goes dull stop and immediately (it is important it is immediately) ask for trot again.

But - and this is the important bit - if you get a few strides of good trot stop and reward your horses - for your horse that may mean just doing nothing for a whole minute or so.

Look for progression of good strides before you reward.

its that old training mantra "make the good things easy and the bad things hard"

It takes so much patience to begin with but you horse will get the pattern if you persist. Your aim is to teach the horse it is its responsibility to maintain a good trot.
 
Shay said:
Have you tried out hacking? It isn't uncommon for horses to lack impulsionn in the school but they often step out better when out and about with others. If she still shambles along even out hacking then you might want to check for hock or SI problems. Don't assume there isn't pain behind this and keep hitting her. It could be (and probably is) just cob stubborness. But you need a better way to work through this than violence. But if she steps out just fine when she's out then spend some time with a good instructor so you can learn how to get the best out of her.
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We have very limited hacking near us but she is forward when hacking but very 'looky. But when my daughter took her out on her own with me on foot she was very reluctant to go, obviously used to company. She is fit and healthy and tack all checked and ok.
 
My Welsh is very stubborn too. She bucks if I tickle her with a schooling whip and what makes it worse is that she spooks and naps in the school too. I get your pain but there's not really anyway I can help it. Sorry! :p
 
canteron said:
as soon as the trot goes dull stop and immediately (it is important it is immediately) ask for trot again.

But - and this is the important bit - if you get a few strides of good trot stop and reward your horses - for your horse that may mean just doing nothing for a whole minute or so.

Look for progression of good strides before you reward.

its that old training mantra "make the good things easy and the bad things hard"

It takes so much patience to begin with but you horse will get the pattern if you persist. Your aim is to teach the horse it is its responsibility to maintain a good trot.
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Thanks. I was trying your method but I didn't seem to be getting anywhere because she doesn't take much notice of my leg to go forward and I am not confident enough to risk getting bucked off if I use a schooling whip. I have started having some lessons but not sure they are helping as my instructor is at the moment only interested in correcting my position!
 
WelshCManiac said:
My Welsh is very stubborn too. She bucks if I tickle her with a schooling whip and what makes it worse is that she spooks and naps in the school too. I get your pain but there's not really anyway I can help it. Sorry! :p
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Keith_Beef said:
Ten quid for that? Looks like money for old rope, if you ask me.
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Yes I thought that but I bought one and it is very well made and very soft. Just need the confidence to try it out!
 
Cassy said:
Thanks. I was trying your method but I didn't seem to be getting anywhere because she doesn't take much notice of my leg to go forward and I am not confident enough to risk getting bucked off if I use a schooling whip. I have started having some lessons but not sure they are helping as my instructor is at the moment only interested in correcting my position!
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Yes and position is most caused by how lazy they are. My Welsh canters too fast and will leap at the opportunity to canter but if you ask her for trot... Oh no she won't do that! I have got used to her bucking by now as she's nappy anyway so I'm fine about getting bucked off :p
 
Cassy said:
We have very limited hacking near us but she is forward when hacking but very 'looky. But when my daughter took her out on her own with me on foot she was very reluctant to go, obviously used to company. She is fit and healthy and tack all checked and ok.
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This is interesting. I've formed the impression over the years that 'lookiness' is common in horses with PSSM, and PSSM is common in heavier horses. And is often discovered after people describe a horse as lazy. The constant high level of work in a riding school may have kept it at bay somewhat.

If she was mine, I would put her on 10,000 iu a day of natural vitamin E, and see if that makes any difference to her. If it does, you may be able to reduce it quite a lot, especially in summer.
 
Cassy said:
Thanks. I was trying your method but I didn't seem to be getting anywhere because she doesn't take much notice of my leg to go forward and I am not confident enough to risk getting bucked off if I use a schooling whip. I have started having some lessons but not sure they are helping as my instructor is at the moment only interested in correcting my position!
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Do the training from the ground then - use a fence line to help keep straight and then you can use a schooling whip. I would try using a sequence for trot that you can transfer to ridden work ie raise your energy, say trot, hit your boot with stickt, then whatever you need to do to get the horse to trot. I am sure it will try a few tricks but just remember stopping and doing nothing is a reward!!!
 
OP it really sounds as though you need some lessons with a good instructor, beating the horse into trotting (regardless of the implement) is not the answer.

WelshCManiac said:
Yes and position is most caused by how lazy they are. My Welsh canters too fast and will leap at the opportunity to canter but if you ask her for trot... Oh no she won't do that! I have got used to her bucking by now as she's nappy anyway so I'm fine about getting bucked off :p
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Have to say that is typical behavior of a horse that is in pain.
When my hunter started with his stifle and SI issues the first sign was a reluctance to trot but absolutely happy as Larry in walk and canter. When pushed into trotting he bucked.
My Welsh C gets nappy if his saddle isnt fitting properly.
 
WelshCManiac said:
Yes and position is most caused by how lazy they are.
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Whilst I don't disagree with this, it's also true that position influences the horse, and a poor position could well cause a horse to be, or appear, lazy.

How does the horse go when your instructor rides it? I'd definitely want someone to ride the horse who wasn't afraid of getting bucked off and was happy to send it forwards (with conviction - but not by beating!).
 
what i found worked for my boy was to nag softly with the schooling whip. A quick flick would often result in a small buck or strop. I then found a video and the instructor used the whip as soon as the leg was ignored directly behind her leg, constantly tapping lightly (barely a touch to be honest). As soon as the horse moved forward the tapping stopped. After a few mins the leg was respected once more and there was no need to tap. Must be consistent though, tap tap tap tap every time leg is ignored, the slightest try stop tapping.
I think if i was a horse and was randomly smacked i would get the hump if i didn't understand why it was happening so it made sense to me :)
 
JFTD-WS said:
Whilst I don't disagree with this, it's also true that position influences the horse, and a poor position could well cause a horse to be, or appear, lazy.

How does the horse go when your instructor rides it? I'd definitely want someone to ride the horse who wasn't afraid of getting bucked off and was happy to send it forwards (with conviction - but not by beating!).
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I'm a bit confused by the second part... My instructor never rides my horse and the bit about a horse that's not afraid about getting bucked off is a bit confusing. Did you mean a rider that's not afraid of getting bucked off? Please clarify
 
WelshCManiac said:
I'm a bit confused by the second part... My instructor never rides my horse and the bit about a horse that's not afraid about getting bucked off is a bit confusing. Did you mean a rider that's not afraid of getting bucked off? Please clarify
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Maybe your instructor should ride your horse?? Mine does, and it means that they can tailor our lessons exactly to both of our needs, and we are both improving no end.
 
conniegirl said:
OP it really sounds as though you need some lessons with a good instructor, beating the horse into trotting (regardless of the implement) is not the answer.



Have to say that is typical behavior of a horse that is in pain.
When my hunter started with his stifle and SI issues the first sign was a reluctance to trot but absolutely happy as Larry in walk and canter. When pushed into trotting he bucked.
My Welsh C gets nappy if his saddle isnt fitting properly.
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Her saddle is fine and she has bet check ups. She is just a brat.
I think the reason why she likes canter is we canter into jumps and you have no idea how much she loves jumping! She never bucks into a trot, is just a bit reluctant. Also my instructor would tell me if she thought that napping was out of pain but she reckons she is insecure( her old owners just threw her over jumps without any schooling) and she still is very young and green
 
HeyMich said:
Maybe your instructor should ride your horse?? Mine does, and it means that they can tailor our lessons exactly to both of our needs, and we are both improving no end.
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She has taught another Welsh c just like mine, insecure and green and got her to hoys level (no joke) and I think my instructor would be rather big as my Welsh is more on the delicate side and barely even 13hh
 
WelshCManiac said:
She has taught another Welsh c just like mine, insecure and green and got her to hoys level (no joke)
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Well, from your OP it sounds like your instructor isn't doing a very good job with you and your pony, even if they have trained others to hoys level (what discipline at hoys by the way? There's a vast difference between a games pony and a show/dressage horse...). If your instructor is worth their salt, they would have given you the right 'tools' to get a controlled, steady trot easily enough by now.
 
HeyMich said:
Well, from your OP it sounds like your instructor isn't doing a very good job with you and your pony, even if they have trained others to hoys level (what discipline at hoys by the way? There's a vast difference between a games pony and a show/dressage horse...). If your instructor is worth their salt, they would have given you the right 'tools' to get a controlled, steady trot easily enough by now.
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Hey no need to be aggressive. My Welsh has just moved yard! Also it wasn't a games horse it was showing at hoys the woman who rode it uses my instructor for her other horse and got the hoys for dressage.of Course she didn't win, it's harsh competition.


My pony has just passed a month at the new yard and she is going out every day here. She had no problems with trot at my old yard but she was there for about 10 months
 
WelshCManiac said:
Hey no need to be aggressive. My Welsh has just moved yard! Also it wasn't a games horse it was showing at hoys the woman who rode it uses my instructor for her other horse and got the hoys for dressage.of Course she didn't win, it's harsh competition.


My pony has just passed a month at the new yard and she is going out every day here. She had no problems with trot at my old yard but she was there for about 10 months
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Ok, so that's all information we didn't get in the OP. No aggression intended.

I'm glad you are happy with your instructor, and they have had success with other horses. Maybe do as others suggest above, and check your pony over for possible causes of pain - saddle fit, hocks, stifles, pssm etc, and then if nothing shows up as a likely cause of discomfort, get your instructor back for more targeted trotting lessons. There should really be no need to swing your reins over their neck.
 
I know they can be inadvertently trained to be duller to leg aids. The rider can be working on something else and not asking for forward and then the horse becomes behind the leg. It's hard to know over the internet.

The way you get them sharper is to ask every time from a tiny aid and only increase pressure if they don't respond. Do it in incremental phases. When they even go a bit more forward, praise them and stop to give them a break.

You mentioned using transitions hasn't worked, maybey try rapid walk to canter transitions. The canter transitions get them more excited than the walk to trot. Your instructor may be prioritising your position atm if she thinks it's more important to fix that first. If that's the case she will likely deal with forward next.
 
It would certainly be helpful to know how this horse was on the lunge/with an experienced rider.
I would have a definite question mark over PSSM being a possibility given the current information.
 
HeyMich said:
Ok, so that's all information we didn't get in the OP. No aggression intended.

I'm glad you are happy with your instructor, and they have had success with other horses. Maybe do as others suggest above, and check your pony over for possible causes of pain - saddle fit, hocks, stifles, pssm etc, and then if nothing shows up as a likely cause of discomfort, get your instructor back for more targeted trotting lessons. There should really be no need to swing your reins over their neck.
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This person isn't the OP! Think there's been a bit of a hijack!
 
JFTD-WS said:
Whilst I don't disagree with this, it's also true that position influences the horse, and a poor position could well cause a horse to be, or appear, lazy.

How does the horse go when your instructor rides it? I'd definitely want someone to ride the horse who wasn't afraid of getting bucked off and was happy to send it forwards (with conviction - but not by beating!).
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Agree - if you are not sitting 'nicely' some horses won't go forward and others do the opposite. And while they don't go forward its harder to sit 'nicely'.
 
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