Making sure horse has 24/7 access to food in the stable?

[Honey08]

I would use something such as a homemade version of the Haygain Forager. I have run rehab yards for many years, and have lost count of the number of horses I have had in that need restricted forage, but also have chronic ulcers so need ad lib forage (I also have a very strict rule of all horses on my yard having access to forage at ALL times, so needed to work it out!). We have made our own slow feeders using a wooden box with slow feed haynets and caribiner clips. This way horses aren't damaging their backs and necks and TMJs eating from haynets, but they are slowed down.
I would feed her soaked hay mixed with straw, and offer it in this sort of form. It will need to be weighed, and I would recommend getting your hay analysed to ensure she's getting what she needs from it.

Could you possibly post a picture- I can’t quite imagine it.

 

[Sossigpoker]

My understanding is that a horse can go 4 to 5 hours without eating without ulcers being an issue. Weight loss for an overweight horse would trump constant access to forage for me.

I would leave a trug with something like Topchop Zero if you are worried.

The 4 hours is an absolute maximum , not a comfortable limit. After 4-5 hours of being empty the stomach acid will essentially be eating into the stomach lining.

 

[Auslander]

The 4 hours is an absolute maximum , not a comfortable limit. After 4-5 hours of being empty the stomach acid will essentially be eating into the stomach lining.

The stomach won't be empty for 4 hours as soon as it finishes it's forage though. Once the horse has finished eating its hay, the digestive system takes several hours to empty. I relaxed a lot when I stopped thinking that empty haynets meant empty tummies.

 

[tatty_v]

My lot are in at night and get their night hay ration at about 10pm. Soaked and loose in a tub trug so fed from the floor and they seem more relaxed about eating it as it’s more freely available than a net if that makes sense?

One is on a straw bed so can nibble that, the other who’s on shavings (if he had a straw bed it would be gone by the morning, he’s a gannet) gets a supplementary net of straw to pick on. That’s it then until 8am the following morning.

We stick to this routine all year round and it’s always worked well for me with good doers. For me, keeping a healthy weight is the priority, especially with natives! I should caveat this though by saying I’ve never had an ulcer prone horse though which I’m sure would require different management.

 

[Sossigpoker]

The stomach won't be empty for 4 hours as soon as it finishes it's forage though. Once the horse has finished eating its hay, the digestive system takes several hours to empty. I relaxed a lot when I stopped thinking that empty haynets meant empty tummies.

Yes the whole digestive system takes up to 12 hours but the stomach itself won't take even half that. Keeping fibre in the stomach to protect against the acid is key.

 

[Auslander]

Yes the whole digestive system takes up to 12 hours but the stomach itself won't take even half that. Keeping fibre in the stomach to protect against the acid is key.

I know how the digetive system works! My point was that the stomach won't be empty as soon as the haynet is. Any of mine that are in have hay at 5. When I go up at 10, they still have some left, and they get the same amount again. The earliest they will run out is 3.30ish, so they'd have 2.5/3 hours without hay in their nets, but with sufficient in their guts. Most of them still have hay at breakfast time anyway.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I know how the digetive system works! My point was that the stomach won't be empty as soon as the haynet is. Any of mine that are in have hay at 5. When I go up at 10, they still have some left, and they get the same amount again. The earliest they will run out is 3.30ish, so they'd have 2.5/3 hours without hay in their nets, but with sufficient in their guts. Most of them still have hay at breakfast time anyway.

I don't think anyone claimed that it did....

 

[SEL]

I have a horse I cannot leave with ad lib anything. If it is there it goes down the neck of this particular horse, and at the fastest possible rate she can manage. After so many colics I have lost count and a cost that I don't want to think about, I manage this horse by trickle feeding and watering her. At this time of year she cannot have grass. She does graze in winter.

She is an exhausting and frustrating nightmare to look after and keep alive but I love her and she is my last riding horse. I use hayballs and trickle nets, together with toys to make her work harder for her food. I feed the final 3kg of hay as late as possible, around 11pm. She also has a toy with fibre nuggets and 10 litres of juice. She is without food by 1am and stays that way until 7am. Once the food has gone she goes to sleep. I did try the zero chop and she inhaled it like it was her last meal, barley straw would kill her with impaction.

I've been in horses nearly 50 years now and never come across a horse like her.

I've got one - she was hand reared as a baby and it seems to have left her with severe food anxiety. If it's there it gets eaten!

I once moaned at a livery yard for being stingy with the straw bed. Turned out she was eating it after finishing her hay. Not nibbling at it, stuffing herself with anything away from her poo corner. She'd only sleep when everything edible was gone.

 

[Ratface]

Mine is out at grass 12 hours a day, and in for the same amount. He's on straw, and has a large (small hole) net of our home grown hay every night. Usually a bit left in the morning.

 

[GreyDot]

I wish I could do this, but I'm on livery and the grass is very lush. She's turned out in a muzzle to help restrict grass intake.

Is it possible to have her turned out at night and in through the day? The grass would be less sugary at night and she would also more likely eat less when in through the day (I know mine who are out at night, eat much less when they are in through the day). Plus, as it's day, you can always monitor how much haylage she gets through and could split the rations.

 

[Goldenstar]

I will go as far as saying that this mantra that every horse must have access to stuff to eat every second of the day is ending some horse lives prematurely .
The number one priority is that your horse is the correct body score .
If you buy a horse who is a good doer you must have a plan to control weight gain if not don’t buy the horse .
Good doers are very hard work .

 

[PapaverFollis]

My vet advised "give her her ration and don't worry about it" when I had concerns with mine finishing up an overnight net in a very short time. I'm still struggling with it but gradually accepting that that is the only way to have a slimmer Beast... I use small holed nets and Top Chop Zero. But I also prefer overnight turnout (mine are on short, poor grass that they have to work pretty hard to get so are picking away all night but still hungry in the morning!) So I can give hay in smaller amounts at frequent intervals. However, I worry less about them being stood without overnight if they are in than about them being stood without in daytime.

I don't know. I take on the risk of ulcers (which I don't perceive to be that high with how I manage them...but they do have periods of time without their noses in food) to avoid the risks associated with being overweight I guess.

When they are out in the field 24/7 they stop eating for extended periods of time even when they are quite clearly still hungry. Even The Beast stops occasionally in the current set up (she never seemed to stop eating in a square, lush field! But stops with the others now where there's less grass to go at but a more interesting terrain and environment).

 

[Antw23uk]

I read an article recently on a paper that had been written about ad lib 24/7 forage and the consensus was they actually don't need to be grazing on something 24/7 and a few hours standing in a stable without forage wasnt going to do any damage. I'll try and find the article, it was a bit of a revelation to me as i was always trying to provide ad lib hay when stabled but now i dont feel worried if he eats it all and stands snoozing for a few hours without anything.

 

[Widgeon]

I hadn't considered straw - is it easy for them to digest?

This is a funny one, have a search on this forum and you'll find lots of different opinions. General consensus seems to be that oat straw is best, followed by barley straw, and then avoid wheat straw (my horse didn't get that memo and prefers barley to oat straw). Some people get very worried about straw causing impaction colic while others feed it regularly with no worries at all. In some countries, e.g. Spain, feeding straw seems to be the norm, and horses aren't keeling over from it. Personally I think if you introduce it slowly and make sure there's constant access to clean water, it's not anything to worry about (unless your horse is already known to have specific needs / reasons for not doing this). I like feeding straw, it's really useful for fatties.

 

[I'm Dun]

If she's not shod nibbleze have instructions on how to tie it and push the string inside the net, that's what I always did as much prefer it to them pulling on the net and they have to use their lips to get it out rather than grabbing at it.
It did occasionally get dumped in the water bucket but I figured that was his problem!

I just use an ordinary net. Tie it tight at the neck and leave the cord loose. I've never had one get caught up in it and that included a youngster and cob who could find trouble in a padded cell!

Hay balls are brilliant. They take about 4kg of haylage and they keep them amused for ages. All mine have always loved them

 

[Patterdale]

‘Long periods’ is more like 12 hours plus without food. They don’t actually need to eat constantly 24/7, and I personally think that the stress and frustration caused by tiny holed haynets is more harmful.

I’d just give the hay, feed again in the morning and not worry about it.

 

[ester]

I just use an ordinary net. Tie it tight at the neck and leave the cord loose. I've never had one get caught up in it and that included a youngster and cob who could find trouble in a padded cell!

Hay balls are brilliant. They take about 4kg of haylage and they keep them amused for ages. All mine have always loved them

i did do that but found the nibbleze worked better and as OP has one anyway

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She's in for approximately 14 hours overnight, on average. I hadn't considered straw - is it easy for them to digest?

I found that long straw caused colic in my Draft mare but chopped oat straw chaff was fine.

 

[SEL]

I will go as far as saying that this mantra that every horse must have access to stuff to eat every second of the day is ending some horse lives prematurely .
The number one priority is that your horse is the correct body score .
If you buy a horse who is a good doer you must have a plan to control weight gain if not don’t buy the horse .
Good doers are very hard work .

Yup.

I'm trying to persuade a friend with 3 fat cobs that they don't need ad lib hay on her grass track - plenty for them to nibble at but they're standing in one spot stuffing themselves.

OP I don't give my fat Appy ad lib when she's stabled. She gets her allowance (soaked) & when it's gone she sleeps! She has a history of ulcers related to food anxiety but now she knows her routine and that food will arrive again in the morning she's fine.

 

[Goldenstar]

I found that long straw caused colic in my Draft mare but chopped oat straw chaff was fine.

I agree with this, straw can cause colic in some individuals and needs to introduced gradually in all horses ,some horses will gorge proper long straw one of mine does.
I think soft straw chops are probably safest , I use top chop zero if I want to put something in bowl that my lot will look at in disgust .

 

[Leandy]

Surely weight is the most important thing here. You need to calculate a suitable diet for your horse and then feed that, ideally little and often. Then just not give any more until the excess weight is lost. I agree with those who say when its gone its gone. The obsession with feeding 24/7 in order to avoid ulcers contributes to the obesity problem in my opinion. Horses have an unsuitable diet if they are too fat. I sympathise with those who have had ulcer issues with their horses but most horses will not develop ulcers just because they are standing without food for a few hours as part of their usual routine. I have kept horses all my life and never knowingly had one with ulcers. I do not feed ad lib but they get a suitable proportion of their diet as roughage, spread out through the day. Why would you prioritise tackling a problem the horse does not have (ulcers) over a problem it actually does have (overweight)?

 

[GreyDot]

As above - very well put. Plus, I have not come across a horse (in a well cared for home) that has got ulcers from feed management. They are usually performance (stress) related or due to physical pain - yes, feed management is important in ulcer treatment, but I would concentrate on ensuring she has a good body score, exercised well and as much turnout as possible and a chaff feed half an hour before exercise and you will be doing very well.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Every horse is an individual and are so very different. I am lucky in that I can watch my gang on camera and really get to know their ways and habits. I can set my watch by their behaviour at certain times of day, which is so very helpful to recognise unusual behaviour. I would recommend camera's to anyone if you can use them.

The 3 'normal' horses do not pig out. They do regulate, snooze and sleep. They are in during the day now, Ted and Alice will pick a little hay in the morning and go to bed very quickly before picking a bit more. Alice finishes her hay and goes back to bed in the afternoon so is without food from 1pm to 5 or 6pm. Horse like owner given the chance ! Ted does a full morning asleep and picks his hay in the afternoon and rarely finishes it. The old lad has been a star to look after throughout his life, never pigging out, always has hay in front of him and he even leaves a bit of bucket feed for later on. He is a true trickle feeder, and whilst he has given me plenty of problems over the years, his eating and digestion has never worried me.

The maxi cob on the other hand is an utter nightmare. One kilo or one hundred kilo's it is going in at speed until she goes pop and is on the floor in agony. There is no stop button and she does spend hours with nothing to eat. The many vets that have treated her simply say, she has had her ration and it must make its way through her system. Her shape changes if she has too much too quickly and I use how her belly looks to judge how I feed her. Hayballs, martsnets, hay sprinkled across her yard area and any other slow down efforts are used. I would never want another horse with her eating problems, it is utterly exhausting and a constant worry.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Surely weight is the most important thing here. You need to calculate a suitable diet for your horse and then feed that, ideally little and often. Then just not give any more until the excess weight is lost. I agree with those who say when its gone its gone. The obsession with feeding 24/7 in order to avoid ulcers contributes to the obesity problem in my opinion. Horses have an unsuitable diet if they are too fat. I sympathise with those who have had ulcer issues with their horses but most horses will not develop ulcers just because they are standing without food for a few hours as part of their usual routine. I have kept horses all my life and never knowingly had one with ulcers. I do not feed ad lib but they get a suitable proportion of their diet as roughage, spread out through the day. Why would you prioritise tackling a problem the horse does not have (ulcers) over a problem it actually does have (overweight)?

I'm not prioritising it as such, but I am aware that horses going for prolonged periods of time can be an issue, hence opening this discussion for other's thoughts and suggestions. I would rather prevent it being an issue in the future now, than have to deal with it down the line. My horse is on a very restricted weight-loss diet with an appropriate amount of exercise for her current level of fitness. She has thankfully already lost some weight with this routine.

 

[Goldenstar]

I got nearly 200 kilos off Blue the the seriously obese cob .
I did it by working him hard and giving him very little to eat, I gave him a very very lean winter last year ie 21/22 that and work did the trick .
He could still be thinner and we will go for thin this winter .
Of course I accept there will be issues down the road as the result of being so obese they can’t get away from the hard it causes but atm moment I am putting that to one side and letting him enjoy life .

 

[I'm Dun]

Every horse is an individual and are so very different. I am lucky in that I can watch my gang on camera and really get to know their ways and habits. I can set my watch by their behaviour at certain times of day, which is so very helpful to recognise unusual behaviour. I would recommend camera's to anyone if you can use them.

The 3 'normal' horses do not pig out. They do regulate, snooze and sleep. They are in during the day now, Ted and Alice will pick a little hay in the morning and go to bed very quickly before picking a bit more. Alice finishes her hay and goes back to bed in the afternoon so is without food from 1pm to 5 or 6pm. Horse like owner given the chance ! Ted does a full morning asleep and picks his hay in the afternoon and rarely finishes it. The old lad has been a star to look after throughout his life, never pigging out, always has hay in front of him and he even leaves a bit of bucket feed for later on. He is a true trickle feeder, and whilst he has given me plenty of problems over the years, his eating and digestion has never worried me.

The maxi cob on the other hand is an utter nightmare. One kilo or one hundred kilo's it is going in at speed until she goes pop and is on the floor in agony. There is no stop button and she does spend hours with nothing to eat. The many vets that have treated her simply say, she has had her ration and it must make its way through her system. Her shape changes if she has too much too quickly and I use how her belly looks to judge how I feed her. Hayballs, martsnets, hay sprinkled across her yard area and any other slow down efforts are used. I would never want another horse with her eating problems, it is utterly exhausting and a constant worry.

Have you treated her for EMS? Starving hunger with no off switch is one of the symptoms.