Man hit a child ...

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skewbald_again

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We were at a show today, and to my horror, my dh told me, he saw a guy whack a child (10 -12 yo) so hard, she fell over and hit her head on a bin.
Apparently, the mother came along, sorted out ponies and moved children, soon after.
But I can't move from my head the fact that dh witnessed that, and didn't do anything.

Two years ago at the Bath and West, I saw something similar, from a bit of a distance, and walked away, and I still can't forgive myself. I know dh was affected by today's incident, as he was really upset when he told me.

I said 'but that's common assault - someone should have rung the police!' - but in reality?

Not looking for condemnation of him, I know how hard it is - but what should we do? What should be in place? When we witness these things, in public places?

dh is not a big guy, he's quiet, and peace loving and not into challenging people.

Why is life so crud?
 
i dont think he needed to confront anyone - he should have called the police!!!

never walk past child abuse - if your scared stop, & hide but get that child help ........

you dont have to be a hero - just let somone know so that the idiot thought twice about ever doing it again, i would have made sure he knew 100% without question i had seen what had happened & would have called the police immediatley!!!
 
Were they competing? If so then speak to the secretry and get the name and adress of the child, then report the incident to the child protection team for the area the child lives in. They will check out the child and its welfare. Good luck with it. If the secretary refuses to give the info then explain that the duty of care becomes theirs. If not competitors then very little more that you can do now. In future should you witness such a thing, respond in the same way as you would if you saw an adult being assaulted. If police present on the show ground inform them.
 
Songbird said:
i dont think he needed to confront anyone - he should have called the police!!!

never walk past child abuse - if your scared stop, & hide but get that child help ........

you dont have to be a hero - just let somone know so that the idiot thought twice about ever doing it again, i would have made sure he knew 100% without question i had seen what had happened & would have called the police immediatley!!!
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I agree. I just also know how hard it is to leave that decision too late. I think what I'm trying to say is - wouldn't this be a good tv campaign? So we all do it automatically? Like 'clunk click'?

NOW he wishes I'd been there (having messed up before) so as to say - call the police - but how to identify a moving target on a showground? (though dh had clocked his Discovery and could have noted the reg no)

I think I might contact NSPCC and make a very serious suggestion for an ad campaign that says 'call the police. act. even if you have to hide.'

what do you think?
 
How can anyone not know that you should reoort a crime? If the reg can be taken, but isn't, then the adult witness is condoning the assault. Why waste valuable resources on putting out a message which ANY reasonably educated adult should aldready know?
 
thanks, yorksg, that has helped no end.
not.
It ought to be that simple, but isn't - I am a bit horrified about dh's reaction - hence up at gone midnight when he isn't - but just telling me he is stupid isn't helping.
The paralysis that sets in is not unique. You may think it a waste of resources, but if it helps someone like my dh, in that situation, to think, clearly, OK must ring police, must do this, must do that, then I don't.
Maybe we are uneducated? Debating that won't help another kid, will it?
Some kind of 'clunk click' message might.

I think we both know he was wrong, I think we both know he wasn't the only one frozen in time. I'm trying to be constructive.
 
I think it's one of those very hard situations where we all know with hindsight what we should have done but we freeze when it actually happens.

It's actually a biological response to the adrenalin created in these sorts of situations where we witness 'trauma'- ok this is in some ways is 'less traumatic' to watch that other situations where this response is more likely eg car accidents etc but it's the same thing.

I've been at car accidents where people have just 'frozen' and stood there watching me try to help. Ok once I'd shouted instructions - phone ambulance and police - go stand there and slow traffic down etc they got going but it's the same reaction.

That's why people who come across these situations are so trained that the response is virtually automatic - their training helps to desensitise them and seperate them from the situation.

It's similar to the person (posted on here a while back) who saw a horse being laid into while driving home. We sense the 'danger' of confrontation if we get involved and our bodies take over from our brains.

This is in no way criticism - it's just fact.

Any kind of message that installs an automatic response would be helpful.
 
I am sorry you found my response unhelpful, but I still find it hard to believe that people need a campaign to tell them that child abuse is an offense. Would your partner have not reported an aduklt hitting another adult? Would he have not reported obviouse theft, or burglary, or does he need a televised campagin to tell him that assaulting a child is an offense?
All the child protection charities have scarce resources to help the children who are being abused. Crime stoppers regularly have adverts promoting the reporting of offenses. Being 'frozen' at the time, should not preclude a witness from reporting after the incident, or from takinmg the reg of the car IMO
If people considered that they had a responsibility to those around them, this would not even be an issue. That is a question of the individuals morality, not something that an advert is going to make any difference to.
Oh and did you not read my first response?
 
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suzi said:
Any kind of message that installs an automatic response would be helpful.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. A tv campaign that made it an automatic response to report this *somehow* no matter what the difficulties - in the middle of a show ground, mother has taken kids away - not sure who's going where (it was only later dh realised 'oh that is his land rover') - something that would help us to keep our sorry wits about us.

So upsetting.
 
yorksG said:
I am sorry you found my response unhelpful, but I still find it hard to believe that people need a campaign to tell them that child abuse is an offense. Would your partner have not reported an aduklt hitting another adult? Would he have not reported obviouse theft, or burglary, or does he need a televised campagin to tell him that assaulting a child is an offense?
All the child protection charities have scarce resources to help the children who are being abused. Crime stoppers regularly have adverts promoting the reporting of offenses. Being 'frozen' at the time, should not preclude a witness from reporting after the incident, or from takinmg the reg of the car IMO
If people considered that they had a responsibility to those around them, this would not even be an issue. That is a question of the individuals morality, not something that an advert is going to make any difference to.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I do find your responses utterly unhelpful. But there we are, we are all different.
I am trying to deal in reality, you are obviously already perfect.
 
I think DH found himself wedged between that rock and hard place.
For some reason most of us will just walk away in a situation like this after all its a parent and child and sadly some parents do slap/hit their children and call it 'discipline'.
The fact that Skewbald_again is asking for advice means that unlike most her and DH are not prepared to let this vanish and hopefully the show organisers might be able to help.
I'm by no means a wishy washy parent but I do believe that raising a hand to a child is wrong. If someone had done that to me-as an adult I'd be having them done for assault. Someone needs to speak on behalf of the child as if thats what happens in public, what goes on behing closed doors?
 
You see, going back, I am old enough to remember when we all actually KNEW that seatbelts saved lives. We did actually know that. But half the time, we didn't use them.

A big mad guy with a cigar and a bunch of medallions convinced us to clunk click.

Logical? No.
But it worked.
 
A law was passed making it illegal to not wear a seat belt, it is already illegal to assault another person. I did actually try and give you some advice as to what to do, but you have unfortunately preferred to be offended by me, so be it. Not perfect, but someone who spends her working life attempting to help people undo the harm done to them in childhood by abusive adults.
 
I'm not offended, I'm just not finding what you say helpful, there is a difference.
I totally agree he should have reported it there and then. That is why I am still up.
OK?
Now. He didn't. That is not unique. I would have. But only because I didn't two years ago.
What you say is perfectly legitimate. We all should. But we don't.
Yes, a law was passed about seatbelts, but I was there, and let me tell you, it wasn't the law that made everyone belt up! It was changing their attitude. It was reprogramming.
If you think it a waste of money to state the obvious so many times that people react correctly, then you must be right, you're the professional.
I just wish I hadn't mentioned it now.
 
You could still contact the secretary and find out if the child's name is available. I too was around when the seat belt laws came in, the campaign began before the law changed. The law was still necessary to ensure that people wore them.
I'm afraid that agonising on a forum will not help any child, similar to the thread the other night by the poster who sat in her car watching a rider 'battering' her horse, there are people who will intervene, people who will take an oblique approach and check that child is not seriously hurt, people who will take details and report later and people who will wish later that they had done something about it. It is up to the individual to make their choices. I am now going to bed as I have to go to work in the morning.
 
To be honest, scenes like that were common at , certainly the show jumping comps I used to attend.No one did anything and people thought I was mad when I said it was wrong.Lot of abuse of ponies as well, but you know what? NOBODY ever saw a thing, certainly not the officials.A showing judge wrote in HH that she saw a child in a ring she was judging.The child was clearly overhorsed and absolutely terrified.She heard the mother say to her Get a smile on your face or I will smack in on for you! Wonder what she did about it?Quite brave though, even writing it.Lot of nasty people out there.The rational given to me was A LOT OF MONEY IN THOSE PONIES.For whose benefit one wonders.
Even for those that never actually hit, in public at any rate, a lot of verbal abuse was common.
 
skewbald_again said:
We were at a show today, and to my horror, my dh told me, he saw a guy whack a child (10 -12 yo) so hard, she fell over and hit her head on a bin.
Apparently, the mother came along, sorted out ponies and moved children, soon after.
But I can't move from my head the fact that dh witnessed that, and didn't do anything.

Two years ago at the Bath and West, I saw something similar, from a bit of a distance, and walked away, and I still can't forgive myself. I know dh was affected by today's incident, as he was really upset when he told me.

I said 'but that's common assault - someone should have rung the police!' - but in reality?

Not looking for condemnation of him, I know how hard it is - but what should we do? What should be in place? When we witness these things, in public places?

dh is not a big guy, he's quiet, and peace loving and not into challenging people.

Why is life so crud?
Click to expand...
what's so horific about this is the fact so many parents seem
unable to discipline there kids, its either letting them run round acting like savages doing exacty as they please or they give little or no guidence and then suddenly lashing out in temper..
I think its a sad reflection on society and how commonsense seems to have been lost for so many...
 
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Oh no don't start a thread like this again, " didn't do anything" you will have certain people on this forum on your back and it will start all over again!!!!!
 
As YorksG has said, in these types of situation there will always be those who will "have a go" and those that just stand back and be "appalled"..

But to go as far as a TV campaign...crikey, can't we as a nation "Think" for ourselves anymore?
 
I witnessed a child of approximately 3 being dragged along by her harness/reins at a car boot sale because she wouldn't keep up. When she fell the mother & pregnant friend hauled her up by the reins & threw her over over her mother's shoulder like a sack. The child then fell out of the harness to the ground, very distressed. Mother was shouting at the child the whole time.

They were surrounded by people & nobody did anything although many were staring. I'm ashamed to say this included me & it still haunts me to this day. I now have my own children & am older & more confident & hope I would have the courage to react now. There were even police at the event in the car park.

There also some heard to say that the child needed a smack for behaving so badly! I often wonder what that child had for her future.

My post isn't a lot of help, but wanted to say that I've also been in a similar situation.
 
there seems to be a very clear split on here - demonstrated on this thread and the one about the horse - where some are very dismissive (not to say rude) and think that it's so obvious what should be done - and of course, it is obvious what SHOULD be done, but the other posters demonstrate that whether they like it or not, it often ISN'T done (or not to our knowledge, I don't know that someone else didn't report the incident my husband witnessed.)
I think taking the moral high ground and calling us unintelligent and unprincipled must feel very good, but it doesn't help solve the self evident problem that people don't always react as they know they should, and often torture themselves afterward (though obviously without permission should not do so 'on this board' otherwise they will get an earful, despite not breaking any rules or forcing anyone to read their posts.)

However, those that know and feel comfortable calling the rest of us stupid, have decreed it would be a waste of public money to state the obvious, repeatedly until people do react instantly in the correct way.

Ask any 7 year old what to do if they catch fire (stop, drop, roll) or anyone over forty how to cross the road safely (look right, look left, look right again). Ask anyone who watches TV how to recongise a stroke (Face, Arm, Speech - Time to dial 999) - and then sit there comfortably knowing that everyone (including my dh, who after all you must remember was regularly clouted as a kid as a part of normal discipline, and does not see himself as abused or damaged, that's just how it was) - SHOULD know what to do and do it instantly therefore it would be a waste of time and money to reinforce that.

The NSPCC are NOT short of money, they get a good whack of government funding and had hundreds of thousands to spend on harassing innocent home educators last year.

Personally, I would like to see a campaign (and not one of those ones which is so sick making, people turn it off) NOT for once asking for our money, but with a short, memorable message about who to call, how to call, and what to know in such circumstances.

But then, I am ignorant, unthinking and unprincipled, so what would I know.

s_a who doesn't usually approve of sarcasm, but has been pushed.
 
Well say it how you see it, if that is your view of yourself and your husband so be it, no one else called you those things.
The phrase 'harassing innocent home schoolers' actually made me laugh, what is the best way to ensure that the serious abuse of a child is not picked up at school? Educate the child at home, not all home educators obviously, but don't assume that all abusers are living on poor council estates, without the ability to evade detection. One of the worst stories I heard was where the perpetrators were a police officer and a teacher, who gave home schooling a try.
 
I have nothing to add that will help, but it just brought to mind an incident from my childhood...

We were at a Pony Club XC rally, and one of my friends' mum was a mounted instructor's assistant. We got to a double of trakehners, and said friend decided she didnt want to jump the big option - she wanted to do the 2'3 one like the rest of us. Her mother had a go at her and they had a stand up row in front of everyone. The girl then went and attempted the big fence, but her pony stopped and she eventually said she really didnt feel happy doing it. After shouting at her again, her mother took her own riding whip and whacked her daughter across the face with it, leaving a red mark...and her daughter crying quietly for the rest of the rally.

Child abuse? Probably. But it was witnessed by many adults - instructor, the DC herself and several parents, and no one did anything about it...
 
yorksG said:
The phrase 'harassing innocent home schoolers' actually made me laugh, what is the best way to ensure that the serious abuse of a child is not picked up at school? Educate the child at home, not all home educators obviously, but don't assume that all abusers are living on poor council estates, without the ability to evade detection. One of the worst stories I heard was where the perpetrators were a police officer and a teacher, who gave home schooling a try.
Click to expand...

Well, with that bigoted, mis-informed load of hogwash, I am going to give up trying to hold anyting like a sensible conversation with you.

It is clearly pointless. I'm glad the hate campaign perpetrated against home educators last year made you laugh. It wrecked a lot of lives. And the presumption of guilt, and assertion that children should be interrogated without their parents present, which does not even happen to youths who have raped and murdered, caused a lot of little ones to have nightmares. So refreshing to see you found it amusing.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2009/01/the-coming-war-against-home-schoolers.html
http://kellygreenandgold.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/what-i-did-during-my-summer-vacation/
 
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OP i feel for you and your OH - its so easy for us to sit here and say "ring the police, report it etc", but in all honesty how many of us would do anything more than you did (or your OH) in that situation....

me personally, i would have took their car reg and reported them to social, but i wouldt know what else to do as i dont like confrontation... howevr child abuse is sick and shouldnt happen....
 
God there are some incredibly perfect and very judgemental people on this forum.

NOONE, and I mean NOONE knows what they will do given any situation. How do I know that? Because every situation is different and therefore noone can say how they will react until put in a situation.
 
I agree with the op.

I was driving to work one day and saw a woman smack her child so hard round the head she knocked him off his feet. He lay on the ground dazed and she proceeded to drag him to his feet shouting abuse at him all the while. I was in a car, in traffic and couldn't stop. If I did stop, what was I to do? Confront the woman and probably get a slap (or worse) myself? How would that help the child? I got to work and thought about ringing the police but what would I say?

'Hello officer, I saw a woman hit her child so hard he fell over. What's that? Do I know who she is? Do I know where she lives? I'm afraid not officer. Ok, goodbye'.

An ad campaign might make the abusers think twice at least about hitting their children in public if they know people will be watching them and know what to do and who to report to.
 
The trouble with stepping in is you might actually be making it worse for the child.
Image whats going to happen when they get home after the child 'made a show' of the adult in public and a stranger intervened?
Some who can hit a child in that manner (not just a tap) isn't likely to be a reasonable person who will hold up their hands and say they were wrong are they?
 
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