Managing a herd- do you intervene?

[MosMum]

Hi all, we just got a new loan horse and he's settled in fantastic with no problems (yet)
However the owner of the other horse says her horse has always been bullied in the past at other yards.

If you felt a horse was being bullied, would you intervene or just allow the horses to sort out their ranking system? Or would you allow that at first but intervene in the case of on-going 'bullying', and if so how long would you wait? I'm assuming horses have been introduced appropriately etc.

Or can experienced horse-people normally tell by character of new comers where they are most likely to fit in without problems?

Obviously I guess we'd all do something in the case of repeated bite/kick wounds. Just wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this?

 

[Kallibear]

I would give them a week or so to let them settle. If it shows no sign of calming down I'd interviene.

I know my horses and their herd well enough to tell how they will react to a new horse. You can't tell what a new horse will do until you put it in the field with them but it's usually fairly obvious within the first few mins how it's going to settle out: will they fight? Will they run? Will they slowly try to worm their way up? Will they make friends instantly?

Generally I've found seperating out the bullied horse to go with the bullier, and putting them in a distant field on their own for a week will teach them to at least live together. Sometimes you need to take out a dominate horse for a week to let them make friends. And sometimes taking out the dominate horses best friend does the trick. When they have nothing to fight over (their friends or food) and they're a bit lonely they usually quickly bond.

 

[ladyt25]

See I think it all depends on the individual circumstances and herd. If you are on a yard where horses are coming and going regularly and the dynamic of the group changes often then I think it is easier to introduce newcomers as they is no real herd hierachy established.

With our lot, there is a very strict hierarchy established as they have been together many yeasr so hence it took 5 weeks before i could introduce my new baby horse (I bought last year) to the rest of them. This was mainly because my horse wanted to actually kill him! My horse is not the boss either, he is 2nd in command but almost sort of is the chief's sidekick so did his dirty work for him.#

because we know all ours very well we knwo who's going to be the problem and it we had to work on a rotation of introductions starting with introducing the new one to the lowest of the herd first and worked upwards.

Even after 5 weeks of this, when we did finally introduce my horse went for him in a real nasty way and we had to separate them all again for another night. After that all was well but i loathe doing introductions with our lot - you have your heart in your mouth!

So, basically i air on the side of caution when introducing as we have always had an established herd.

 

[Kallibear]

My horse is not the boss either, he is 2nd in command but almost sort of is the chief's sidekick so did his dirty work for him..

I've often found that : I suspect it's because they feel they have the most to loose. They're high up becasue they're a dominate personality but not quite at the top because they lack the self-assuredneed of a leader and they insecurity make them jealous of their position. Certainly my second in commmand horse is the most agressive to a newby and needs to be seperated out into a field with the new horse for a week until he calms down and makes friends.

 

[ladyt25]

Funny things aren't they. The thing is my horse s the friendliest ever to any horse he may meet out and about, no aggression whatsoever but on his own turf it's a different story. The herd leader (obviously the smallest of the lot!) exhibits very clear stallion type behaviour and this is always the same - he cannot be nearr others out on hacks or at shows as he gets most upset - he has clear boundaries when it comes to horse invading his personal space. He will never really run in an attack though he will warn with kicks and screams and will only resort to attack if his warnings are ignored. He is a fab example (IMO) of natural horse behaviour! lol

 

[Pearlsasinger]

We take it slowly when introducing a new horse to our established herd. Our new Westphalian, who came on Saturday, is still in the field next to the others. She and the established one who has back shoes had them taken off yesterday and the plan is to put them together on Saturday. We are still trying to decide exactly how to do this. We think that the Westphalian will be the dominant one eventually. She seems to be very calm but she is a powerful horse, so we are a bit wary, especially as we don't want any harm to come to our retired cob.
We think that many piles of haylage on a relatively bare paddock will feature strongly in the process. Of course the high winds which we are experiencing atm may play a part too.

 

[Enfys]

It depends.

Generally yes.

I do understand herd politics and I know my horses, general pecking order 'discussions' are permitted of course, outright 'fisticuffs' and charging is not. I like my groups peaceful and happy, no way wuld I leave horses for as long as some people relate in this thread. They'd be separated, re-introduced, and juggled until a status quo was reached.

I have groups that I specifically do not want upset or injured through bullying.

I won't tolerate any prolonged (and by that I mean more than a few hours) arguments in either the broodmare band or with the Boarders. I don't want my mares getting upset, and I will not endanger other people's horses in my care when I have room for alternative arrangements. I do have some groups that surprise some, like these two babies (below) are very content for now with the stallion - that may have to be reconsidered in Spring.