Managing competition horses with locking stifles?

[kricko]

Hi guys,
I'm wondering how you manage your competition horses that has or have had problems with locking stifles?
What type of exercise do you do with them?
And do you feed them anything special to help it?

Also, did you notice it happen more at certain time of the year or after doing harder or less work with your horses?
How severe were your horses problems?

What level are you competing them at?

Please share any experiences!

Many thanks!

_________________________________________________
http://krickos.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

16.3hh ex racer.
8yo this year (2013)
competing adv med
schooling GP

has problem since a 4yo, stifles scanned and manipulated by vet-advised no OCD just weak ligament and to get him super fit, keep him super fit and try and avoid prolonged holiday/rests.

what has helped:

suppleaze gold supplement
armadillo magnetic rug-wears this nearly 24/7 which goes against the grain but works for this particular problem
raised poles
hill work (did a lot as a 4/5yo but doesnt do much now as is generally impossible to hack)

used to happen at least once every 3/4 weeks.

now happens once every 3/4 months. gets less with each year that passes.

he is never allowed more than 3 days off, if i go on hol my sis kindly keeps him ticking over for me.

he needs the stifle area keeping warm and covered so i tend to over rug rather than under rug, to keep the ligament and surrounding muscles relaxed and warm.

 

[lyndsayberesford]

my 7 yr old has improved loads since i moved him yards and the new yard has a few hills/inclines around for hacking.

also noticed since he got competition fit (which he has never been before) that his stifles dont lock hardly at all now.

Mine didnt have so much of a problem when working (and if he did i just asked him to stretch a bit more into his trot and canter) his is more noticeable in the stable.

Vet advises to not let him have prolonged holidays and the more work he has the better really

 

[cptrayes]

Friend's horse had both stifles tendon snipped at 2. At 5 the horse got a meniscal tear that needed a year and a half rest but is now doing well at BS at 1m 20 at 8. The fully brother also locks occasionally but nothing serious and he does it less the older he gets.

My own horse has not been diagnosed, but I assume that he has one that locks because of things he has done - locked in halt and then kicked out when he finally manages to move off as requested; kicking out sideways in canter transitions; foot stuck to the floor when wanting to pick it out and then when he does lift it, it comes up like a gunshot. He also does it less and less the older he gets and it's almost gone completely at 7. He has recently started being able to canter spiral in to 5 metres without struggling and kicking out like he used to on a bigger spiral than that.

None of these horses have had any supplements or any special treatment for it other than the one operation. They do all live on hills and are kept fitter than most horses and don't normally have holidays though.

 

[Mickyjoe]

Had a cob with this that we bought as a yearling. Locking stifles in both legs started to show up around 2 yrs old. The first time I went to walk her out of the stable I thought she had broken her leg!! Such a fright.

She had the op in her 2 yr old year and they never gave her another day's trouble.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

it would be VERY unusual for a horses stifle to lock under saddle (ie in the middle of prolonged bouts of movement) yet to never see evidence of a locked/dragging leg at rest.

i would say kicking out with one hind leg to be indicative of another issue, either training or pain response.

this is just for the OP info and my vet agrees that locking stifles almost never present soley under saddle.

 

[cptrayes]

it would be VERY unusual for a horses stifle to lock under saddle (ie in the middle of prolonged bouts of movement) yet to never see evidence of a locked/dragging leg at rest.

i would say kicking out with one hind leg to be indicative of another issue, either training or pain response.

this is just for the OP info and my vet agrees that locking stifles almost never present soley under saddle.

Is this a follow up to my post Princess? I can't see who else's post you are referring to if not, but I wonder why you have not quoted me.

If it is, did I say it only happened under saddle? No. Did I say that it only happened in the middle of prolonged bouts of movement? No.

The horse locks at halt and cannot move away or pick up the leg. Or he used to before he mostly grew out of it. I think most people would call that a locking stifle, especially if they have seen and felt it, as I have and you have not. But thanks for your advice anyway

 

[Mickyjoe]

The horse locks at halt and cannot move away or pick up the leg. Or he used to before he mostly grew out of it. I think most people would call that a locking stifle, especially if they have seen and felt it, as I have and you have not.

That is actually very different to my experience. When the filly's stifle locked, her hind leg was stretched out fully behind her with the front wall of her hoof dragging on the ground. Extremely dramatic, until she sort of popped the leg back up and underneath her and walked away quite unconcerned while my heart rate took its time to go back to normal.

This was my understanding of how locking stifles classically present themselves and was backed up by every equine specific vet I spoke to about it.

 

[cptrayes]

That is actually very different to my experience. When the filly's stifle locked, her hind leg was stretched out fully behind her with the front wall of her hoof dragging on the ground. Extremely dramatic, until she sort of popped the leg back up and underneath her and walked away quite unconcerned while my heart rate took its time to go back to normal.

This was my understanding of how locking stifles classically present themselves and was backed up by every equine specific vet I spoke to about it.

Perhaps there are different ways of it showing, because the two brothers I mentioned, one of whom was operated on for the condition, did not lock in the particular way you describe. Or maybe some charlatan of a vet cut the tendons in both his stifles for nothing. Who knows, I don't.

OP, how is your horse's locking stifle actually presenting itself?


edit

I have just googled the condition and the first site I have found describes the out-backwords locking as the most extreme form, and the milder form as locked and weight bearing, including while moving or standing still. Other sites confirm this.

It would have been nice if people could have googled it themselves before telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about

So it would seem that my friend's two and my one are all mild case, luckily for us. I hope the OPs grows out of it with age and fitness as most horses do.

 

[Mickyjoe]

I have just googled the condition and the first site I have found describes the out-backwords locking as the most extreme form, and the milder form as locked and weight bearing, including while moving or standing still. Other sites confirm this.

It would have been nice if people could have googled it themselves before telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about .

Is that in response to me? I think if you read back over my post I said nothing of the sort and was merely recounting my own personal experience of my own personal horse and my own personal conversations with a number of vets, including the vet, obviously who operated on my horse for the condition.

I have personal first hand experience of a horse with locking stifles and the resultant operation and recovery, not some theoretical knowledge gained through Google, so figured I could offer something useful to the OP.

 

[cptrayes]

Well if you said nothing of the sort it wasn't in response to you then, was it ?

I have first hand experience too ,of three horses, which was dismissed out of hand by two people, you and Princess. We are ALL trying to help the OP.

 

[kricko]

Thank you very much for the replies everyone, it's all very helpfull.

Have you done anything special with farriery/trimming to help your horses?

My horse first started having the problem when I bought her as a 5 year old. It was around this time of the year. She was very skinny and was newly backed. Both her hind legs would sometimes lock up completely as described, so she was dragging it behind her for a bit before it unlocked. When it did she did snap the hind leg up.
The problem was there for a week or so and then stopped after she got hind shoes put on ( she had worn her feet in a very strange way and would brush her hind legs so bad it would bleed without boots).

After that it has never locked completely again, but she sometimes will drop a hind leg out hacking, especially downhill. She has always been a bit funny about going steep downhill too.
Her downwards transitions can also look a bit weird,especially if she's just plodding and not working properly through her back, it's like her hind legs sometimes just aren't that split second in sync. But these problems have been very minor.
Last spring they were slightly more severe too but nothing bad.

A few weeks ago I noticed her dropping a hind leg more often going downhill, especially in the beginning of the ride before she wakes up a bit.
Then last week, while being tied up at the yard, she really struggled to change legs around while resting the hind legs, she also couldn't back or turn in a very tight circle to the right (it's the right hind that locks now). It's just one or two awkward steps then she's fine.
So it's not locking completely as I dragging her leg behind her, it's as if the stifle is just a bit slow in releasing.
Riding wise she's sound and working better than ever at the moment. She's also started going out more now that the weather is nice and she is in full work, so I'm surprised it's started happening now.
Has anyone else had this happen more often in spring?

I should add this has been diagnosed by the vet as a locking stifle, or delayed patellar release. She's had a bone scan, X-rays on her hocks and back for another issue and they are all clear.
If I put my hand on her stifle ( the vet made made me do it) I can feel the ligament popping the first to steps when she moves from a standstill, then it feels fine.

For those of you who have had surgery on your horses, how severe where the problems?

Again, thanks for taking the time and I'm interested in all your experiences abutting.

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[cptrayes]

The one I have seen that had the op done was not at all severe. It was an old school vet who did it, in a situation where most vets would say to wait and see if the horse grows out of it. He was only two when it was done, but at five he was crocked with a meniscal tear which we can only guess might not have happened without the tendon snip. One because the tendon would still have been there, but more so because the horse would have had to have been brought on much more slowly than his young and ambitious owner tried to do, in order to build up his strength.

None of the three mild cases that I know of have been worse in the spring. Two are stiff if they have too much time off, the third I don't know.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Sigh....can only reply based on the info given CPT which does make it sound like the horse only presented symptoms under saddle ie in the midst of repeated bouts of movement, if you had at all indicated this also happened at rest it would have given a far clearer pic to everyone following on.

OP the downhill issue sounds more spavin related to me but if hock x rays clear that is a weight off your mind, my boy is a lot worse if it locks after a day off, ie will lock repeatedly and stick out behind him, it is much milder if it happens the day after work when it's just an awkward step. Thus I try and keep him in regular work esp in cold damp weather as that seems to make it more likely.

Would def recommend the Armadillo rug.

 

[lyndsayberesford]

mine is the same as CPT describes, he can just be stood still eating and then goes to move and the leg doesnt release. i havent seen it stretch backwards as described etc. mine bucks (less and less nowadays) when i first ask for canter but has no back issues/lameness etc and the first couple of strides feel a bit stiff as if the patella isnt quite unlocking. He also used to do the same when picking his hooves out with that leg, where it wouldnt move and then would snap up when it did release

I had a physio opinion too and as well as doing the usual carrot stretches they tell most people to do she also told me to make him walk backwards for a few strides a few times a day to help him engage the back legs and help to unlock and just build up the ligament

as far as i am aware i dont think the farrier can do anything to help it as its all to do with the ligament that releases and locks the patella, and its all about strengthening that ligament up so that it can do its job properly.

 

[Avonbrook]

We have a Welsh section B pony age 14 who was operated on bilaterally for patella release (medial ligament) as a 2yo. It was only when I contacted her breeder that I found out as she showed no signs of any stifle problems as a 9yo - which is when I bought her. She has been a very active pony in the homes that I know about and was specifically kept as a showjumping pony in one of them. When she was 13 and in very hard work with us there was just something drawing my eye to her hind limb movement and the vet did a work-up which pointed towards the beginnings of a stifle problem (bilateral, left worse than right) which may have been as a result of the reduced stability due to the operation. As it goes, child had nearly outgrown her by then and has subsequently and she is now on loan to another diddy child to bring on and there are no signs of any problems. So that is my experience of a pony that has been operated on. My vet did say that, although she is a bit straight in the hindleg, her basic conformation is such that they would not now have operated at that age.

In general conversation on the topic he did say that shoeing behind with a very slight wedge heel could help them to avoid locking when coming into work but that, like others have said, the long term answer is to have them fit and well muscled behind (hill work and raised poles specifically).

OP, might your horse be growing (bearing in mind that some of mine haven't finished until 8 or so)? Any tendency to being croup-high would exacerbate the problem and first spring grass would be a classic time for a growth spurt.

 

[kricko]

PS, I think she just gets a bit worried about walking downhill as it can be awkward for her if the leg does lock. But yes, it's nice to know that the hocks are clear.
I will look into the rug you mentioned. She's quite a warm horse so I don't normally rug her very much, but I may need to be extra careful about her getting cold then.

Avonbrook, it's possible she might be growing, but she's quite small 16h on her tippy toes and looks quite mature already.
She's been worked fairly hard recently and the fysio pointed out that she might just be a bit tired in her muscles.
I moved yards last autumn which resulted in her having less turnout and less hillwork and offroad hacking than before, which may have made it worse?
I'm moving back soon though, so then I can get cracking on those hills again.

lyndsayberesford, thank you for sharing. Both my vet and fysio have also recommended backing her up a few lengths every day, as well as polework, hillwork and high grass.

Thanks again everyone for your awesomeness.
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http://krickos.blogspot.co.uk/