managing cushings

[smg]

Hi all. My 21 year old has just been tested for cushings (still awaiting results) I know there are drugs that can be prescribed but wondered if anyone has any useful hints and tips on the best way to manage it. I am going to clip him as hes quite hairy (hence the testing) and he gets sweaty just standing in the field. I prefer to keep him out as much as possible as he rubs so much when hes in the stable. Any suggestions on feed supplements or even supplements to avoid please? Thank you in advance.

 

[Nudibranch]

Clipping is a good idea, especially in winter. If you are offered Prascend then take it, it makes a huge difference to most although some people will tell you theirs ended up depressed. If that's the case speak to your vet and review the dosage. I really don't have a lot of time for people who turn down Prascend and start messing about with the supposed herbal supplements. PPID is just not worth messing with.
You'll need to restrict grass (i.e. sugars) while providing maximum turnout - look up track systems and make sure the grazing is on the poor side rather than dairy type grass. Avoid turnout on frosty grass, especially frosty then sunny days as the sugars are supposed to be higher. Magnesium is important. Personally I prefer to use the Pro Earth balancers - something like Pro Hoof would be a good start. There's no added rubbish and high levels of the minerals. Stay away from anything with sugar. I also use a red Rockies lick as there's no molasses or sugars in them and I found both my PPID horses used them a lot. Worth adding salt to his feed too.
Is your grazing quite varied? Wilted nettles were always devoured by the PPID pair. Supposedly they have anti inflammatory properties, but either way if you can provide a good range of different (non toxic) plants to browse on it can only do good. You may need to watch hooves carefully for footiness and change management accordingly. Hoof boots are good; Cavallos Simples worked well with mine.

 

[_HP_]

Have a read on this great site...it'll tell you everything you want to know and provides up to date, well researched information from people that deal with laminitis/Cushing's on a daily basis
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/ppid.html

 

[_HP_]

If your horse is prescribed prascend then be sure to introduce it slowly over several days to avoid any side effects...

 

[smg]

Thank you everyone. Some food for thought there. I already restrict grazing with strip grazing so on the right lines there I guess.
Will be good to get blood results back so I know exactly what I have on my hands.
They always give us something to worry about don't they!!
Thank u

 

[Neversaydie]

Clipping is a good idea, especially in winter. If you are offered Prascend then take it, it makes a huge difference to most although some people will tell you theirs ended up depressed. If that's the case speak to your vet and review the dosage. I really don't have a lot of time for people who turn down Prascend and start messing about with the supposed herbal supplements. PPID is just not worth messing with.
You'll need to restrict grass (i.e. sugars) while providing maximum turnout - look up track systems and make sure the grazing is on the poor side rather than dairy type grass. Avoid turnout on frosty grass, especially frosty then sunny days as the sugars are supposed to be higher. Magnesium is important. Personally I prefer to use the Pro Earth balancers - something like Pro Hoof would be a good start. There's no added rubbish and high levels of the minerals. Stay away from anything with sugar. I also use a red Rockies lick as there's no molasses or sugars in them and I found both my PPID horses used them a lot. Worth adding salt to his feed too.
Is your grazing quite varied? Wilted nettles were always devoured by the PPID pair. Supposedly they have anti inflammatory properties, but either way if you can provide a good range of different (non toxic) plants to browse on it can only do good. You may need to watch hooves carefully for footiness and change management accordingly. Hoof boots are good; Cavallos Simples worked well with mine.

Just out of curiosity since I have read your post and you state that those who do not feed the prascend you don't have time for, so could I ask would you not seek to help those to whose horses prascend hasn't helped?

I just find statements such as yours very negative and unhelpful, known of a few people at their wits end due to their horses and ponies not accepting the prascend in any form or any tempting treat, also known of one to whom being on it nearly caused the owner to PTS but as soon as they dropped it completely the pony was fine. Usually those genuine in helping will help no matter what the case is. Never had a horse personally with cushings but seen ponies with it on livery yards I've been on, always noted the strange musky smell they all seem to produce, it smells nearly the same to me for every instance.

 

[Nudibranch]

Im talking about people who deliberately choose not to use Prascend, usually because they've heard too many anecdotes about other people's horses not doing well on it. As I already said in my first post, if there's an issue then there should be a review with the vet and dosage changed, not just "oh I'll stop it". Im sorry but if you have never owned a PPID horse and had to deal with the consequences then you won't realise just how important the right treatment is. Perseverance in disguising the tablets pays off, although neither of mine ever had an issue eating it. As for a strange musky smell, I have never noticed or even heard of such a thing and tbh, if it did exist it would be the last thing I worried about. Its a horrible, progressive disease and deserves to be treated properly and seriously. Unless you have been there, you just dont know what its like. Ive given plenty of management suggestions - what I am saying is that in the first instance the right medication should be tried, not a bunch of herbal supplements instead.

 

[Crackerz]

musty smell? New one on me. My Cushings pony has been on Prescend (Pergolide) for 10 years and he smells just like all my others!

I wouldn't dream of not medicating, but then, Jack would be dead without medication.

Overall management is pretty easy. I do struggle with Jack a little as he is a poor doer & has been all his life & totally not food orientated. I still feed him ad lib haylage in the winter and he gets hard feed all year round - so he's a little different from a text book Cushings case!

He also will not take Prascend in any form (i've tried every trick in the book!). So i have to dissolve it in boiling water, cool it and syringe it in daily. It's obviously part of routine now but must seem a faff to other people. It took 6 months of syringing it for him to finally give in & let me do it daily though.

 

[Doormouse]

I would definitely give the prascend a go and don't be defeated immediately if he won't eat it or seems a bit low to begin with. My daughters 21 year old pony has been on it for 4 years and her levels are perfect and to be honest looking at her you really wouldn't know she had it.

I am careful with her grass intake, I keep her warm in the winter as horses with cushings have a lower immunity, I try not to let her get cold and wet, I treat any cuts or injuries carefully and I wash her in coal tar shampoo in the summer to help the itching.

She has equimins balancer with a tiny bit of fast fibre and soaked hay.

 

[Casey76]

musty smell? New one on me. My Cushings pony has been on Prescend (Pergolide) for 10 years and he smells just like all my others!

I wouldn't dream of not medicating, but then, Jack would be dead without medication.

Overall management is pretty easy. I do struggle with Jack a little as he is a poor doer & has been all his life & totally not food orientated. I still feed him ad lib haylage in the winter and he gets hard feed all year round - so he's a little different from a text book Cushings case!

He also will not take Prascend in any form (i've tried every trick in the book!). So i have to dissolve it in boiling water, cool it and syringe it in daily. It's obviously part of routine now but must seem a faff to other people. It took 6 months of syringing it for him to finally give in & let me do it daily though.

Have you asked your vet about dissolving it in boiling water? Most medications are not to be stored above 25C as high temperatures effect the efficacy. Some substances just don't dissolve in water due to their chemical composition.

It would be much better to find something (apple sauce etc) to mix it in with (and again, this should be done under veterinary guidance, and preferably from a compounding pharmacy) than use boiling water.

 

[Crackerz]

Have you asked your vet about dissolving it in boiling water? Most medications are not to be stored above 25C as high temperatures effect the efficacy. Some substances just don't dissolve in water due to their chemical composition.

It would be much better to find something (apple sauce etc) to mix it in with (and again, this should be done under veterinary guidance, and preferably from a compounding pharmacy) than use boiling water.

It was the vet that suggested it, he is tested bi-annually and his levels are very low now, they were sky high when first tested. Apple sauce doesn't work, literally have tried everything possible. He takes weeks to trust eating out of a bucket or taking a treat from you after you've attempted to trick him! (I've had him 19 years). Not remotely food orientated, never has been.

We boil the water, let it cool a little then dissolve the tablets and syringe. It's either that or PTS because there is no other way on the planet the medication will be going in to his mouth lol. We've been doing it 10 years, if there was a problem we'd know by now i am sure

 

[smg]

Thank u everyone for taking the time to comment. Still awaiting results from blood tests as they were only taken Friday.
Do you all clip all year round? I have just clipped mine and he already seems happier (saying that the great British summer has vanished)
Thank you again

 

[Crackerz]

Thank u everyone for taking the time to comment. Still awaiting results from blood tests as they were only taken Friday.
Do you all clip all year round? I have just clipped mine and he already seems happier (saying that the great British summer has vanished)
Thank you again

I don't, mine doesn't need clipping

 

[Neversaydie]

Im talking about people who deliberately choose not to use Prascend, usually because they've heard too many anecdotes about other people's horses not doing well on it. As I already said in my first post, if there's an issue then there should be a review with the vet and dosage changed, not just "oh I'll stop it". Im sorry but if you have never owned a PPID horse and had to deal with the consequences then you won't realise just how important the right treatment is. Perseverance in disguising the tablets pays off, although neither of mine ever had an issue eating it. As for a strange musky smell, I have never noticed or even heard of such a thing and tbh, if it did exist it would be the last thing I worried about. Its a horrible, progressive disease and deserves to be treated properly and seriously. Unless you have been there, you just dont know what its like. Ive given plenty of management suggestions - what I am saying is that in the first instance the right medication should be tried, not a bunch of herbal supplements instead.

Fair enough however having worked as a head girl on a full livery yard I do know of the importance of managing PPiD horses and ponies, having had to follow owners management requests, I have just never owned one. Ems and PPiD are very similar and I do have experience managing the former. I do read cushings posts quite regularly as I do have an older horse who thankfully doesn't have cushings. However he is barefoot and is managed not dissimilar to a cushings horse the only difference really is the medication, or lack of.

 

[LegOn]

Thank u everyone for taking the time to comment. Still awaiting results from blood tests as they were only taken Friday.
Do you all clip all year round? I have just clipped mine and he already seems happier (saying that the great British summer has vanished)
Thank you again

I clip my 22 year old all year around - he still competes RC level! He is much happier clipped, his hair growth was his major cushings symptom! He is only diagnosed about 5 months. You will read alot about cushings but I think one of the most important things I learned when reading up was that EVERY horse and EVERY diagnoses seems to be completely individual! What works for some horses, doesnt work for others!

He has huge high levels of 257! Over 29 is high And I started him on one full tablet straight away & straight away there was an improvement & no side effects - fingers crossed! Every horse is different so my biggest big of advice is go with your gut - you know your horse better than anyone.

 

[Micky]

As said before...take a look at the laminitis site, all the information you need is on there, from management to feed to feet etc..all based on fact, tweaking some things to suit your horse may or may not be necessary... Depression on prascend is because the initial dose is too high, so eg: vet prescribes one tablet a day, reduce to half a tablet a day to begin with, upping to full tablet after about a week.. Good luck, it's not all doom n gloom or complicated, mine has had ppid for coming on 3 years, we are out and about and he is full of life, and yes clip when need to to make horse comfortable, not other people comfortable!

 

[Nudibranch]

One I had to clip year-round, as she was like a yak, but the other just in winter. You could almost see the relief on their faces as the clippers went along!

 

[Northern Hare]

If your horse is prescribed prascend then be sure to introduce it slowly over several days to avoid any side effects...

I definitely agree with this - I started my horse straight on one tablet/day as recommended by my vet but were I to do it again I would use a pill cutter to start at a quarter then increase in stages. My horse got very depressed and went off his feed and from what I have read I think you can avoid that by introducing really slowly.

Don't let that put you off Pascend though - it has been fantastic for my horse and makes a huge difference. My horse is 26 but still in full work and full of life.

Ref feed, he went off all hard feed and I tried loads of different feeds (approx 18x) - he also drops weight really quickly so it was fairly alarming. In the end, I called Topspec and they recommended 3 or 4 small feeds a day of their Comprehensive Balancer plus their Cool Conditioning Cubes - which he has with Alfa-A Molasses Free & Speedibeet. He took one sniff and a small taste, and didn't look back from that point - I was so relieved to find a feed he would eat!

Ref grazing, when the grass is coming through in the spring / summer, my horse wears a Greenguard grazing muzzle which works best for him.

One of the side effects of Cushings is skin disorders (mud fever / rain scald etc) - plus my horse also now finds it difficult to regulate his temperature, so it is really important not to over rug so they get sweaty under their rugs - easier said than done! My horse (tb x wb) would have had a Premier Equine 450g combo on during a standard winter (we are in the NE), but since having Cushings the thickest rug he wears in the winter is a no fill turnout with a removable 100g liner and he's fully clipped!

Also ref the cost of Prascend, if you shop around online to see how much you can buy it for, then have a chat with your vet. I came to an arrangement with my vet that if I purchased 180 tabs at a time, plus the prescription charge (that I would have had to pay for if I had bought them online) then he would match the online price.

Good luck - I know it's a steep learning curve!

Ps. My non-horsey husband came home with a supply of sugar free Polos when my horse was diagnosed! They are also great because Prascend tablet fits perfectly into the middle of 3 x SF Polos! Another way is to use a clean hoof pick to put a hole into a small piece of carrot then tuck the tablet into the hole.

 

[NOISYGIRL]

musty smell? New one on me. My Cushings pony has been on Prescend (Pergolide) for 10 years and he smells just like all my others!

I wouldn't dream of not medicating, but then, Jack would be dead without medication.

Overall management is pretty easy. I do struggle with Jack a little as he is a poor doer & has been all his life & totally not food orientated. I still feed him ad lib haylage in the winter and he gets hard feed all year round - so he's a little different from a text book Cushings case!

He also will not take Prascend in any form (i've tried every trick in the book!). So i have to dissolve it in boiling water, cool it and syringe it in daily. It's obviously part of routine now but must seem a faff to other people. It took 6 months of syringing it for him to finally give in & let me do it daily though.

They dissolve quickly in cold water, mine has to have his feed as a mash as he choked approx a year ago so while the water is mushing his feed it dissolves the tablet, if my fingers are wet and I've picked it up they do disintegrate really quickly.

Mine is muzzled when turned out during the day, on a high fibre low sugar/starch diet and is medicated, personally I would rather him live the rest of his days with it if needed he is 37 and only recently retired

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I also dissolve in water and add to her feed, but also now give it in a slice of apple as she doesn't need her hard feed. Can't add much other than whats been said, mine was diagnosed from slight hoof sensitivity and no other symptoms and has been on one tablet a day ever since. She had slight side effects at first but these went quickly thankfully.

 

[smg]

Thank you to everyone that has replied!
I had a msg from the vet today to say that my boy does have signs of cushings. Have any of you ever managed to make a claim on insurance for the treatment?
Thank you.

 

[mightymammoth]

Hi my Horse acth levels were 62.8 last july, I had him tested as the vet was coming to see him anyway and I had the free voucher from the talk about laminitus site. As he wasn't showing any symptoms i decided to try the agnus castus supplement. I had him tested again in the december and he was 32.2. I have continued with the agnus castus and he is still showing no signs. I am having him tested again on tuesday and will then take it from there.

I didn't realise you ca keep having a test voucher as long as your horse isn't actually being treated for cushings.

SMG what have your horses ACTH blood test results come up as out of interest?

 

[smg]

At the moment I am unsure what the levels are as I cant get through to my vet to return her call so im in limbo still. Her voicemail said shes seen worse cases so hoping its not too high.

 

[smg]

Finally got the results and they are 46.5 so from what I have read not too high. We will start on meds from tomorrow and will introduce them gradually

 

[Nudibranch]

That's relatively good news then! Fingers crossed all goes well.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I have two on prascend, I agree that PPID should be treated with medication, and mine have had no problems with it at all. One age 26 lives out all year with shelter and only eats grass-hates everything other than happy hoof. The other is 22 and on 1/4 tablet and tolerating it.

 

[Micky]

Definitely go with the prascend, Angus castus might hold off symptoms for a while but doesn't actually work long term (medically proven).
So far as claiming on insurance goes, I believe your can claim but the insurers will only pay for a years worth of prascend, but don't quote me as I'm not 100%...and all insurers seem to be different!