Managing the pasture bully

[alishaarrr]

My 10yo gelding (16.2 ISHxWB) is a bit of a pasture bully. When I got him seven months ago, he was turned out with a little herd of four other geldings and very quickly established himself as the dictator. They were all a pretty playful bunch, but when one of the other owners complained about torn turnout rugs, our yard managers decided to break up the group into two fields to try and cut down on the monkey business. (I somewhat suspect the uptick in shenanigans happened with the arrival of my gelding.) They put mine with the #2 guy in his field, thinking the two of them would tussle a little and then find an equilibrium. On the first day, mine chased the other horse all over the field until he ran him through a two-panel wood fence, ripped his rug to shreds, and had him in a lather cowering in the corner. He then busted through another fence to get himself in with the mares.

From there, he went into solo turnout -- his field does not share fences with any other horses, but he can watch them from where he is so he's not 100% isolated. He has seemed to do OK in there, and I contacted a former owner who said he was also on solo turnout when she had him (I think more due to yard setup than by choice, but I'm not sure). He is also the sort who lunges and gnashes his teeth at other horses through stall bars.

I know plenty of horses get turned out by themselves and are OK. I'm also cognizant that the top priority is keeping horses safe and from destroying the yard. However, he's such a busy-brains and a bossy guy that I would ideally like to have him get some stimulation and socialization with other horses. I think it would also be good for him to have the security of companions so he's not on alert 24/7, as I don' t know that this contributes to good things as far as his vigilance about his own security. Unfortunately, we don't currently have any bossy mares to put him out with that might put him in line.

Should I just quit worrying about this and accept that he can't be turned out with others because he's too much of a bully? Or, any suggestions for ways to deal with this so he gets a bit more interaction with other horses?

 

[be positive]

I don't like to keep horses on their own long term but on a livery yard you are going to struggle to find anyone willing to risk their horse out with one that has behaved so aggressively towards another, the problem is that the less socialisation they get the worse they tend to be when tried with another, even having one over a fence so they can make friends is no guarantee they will be the same when put together but if there is any way of doing this it may give him some interaction.
He may well be fine in with a mare but this can lead to other issues that could impact on how he behaves leaving her, stables with bars between them can encourage aggression as they feel trapped or overlooked and that may be something you can change by covering the bars and giving him less reason to have a go.

 

[asmp]

Not what you want to hear but I think your first suggestion. This is from someone who owns a horse who is usually at the bottom of the pile. One time I ended up with a £2000 vets bill from a kicked hock, and then at another yard he was found on the road having jumped over 3 fences to get away from another bully, thankfully not injured but his rug in shreds.

 

[Shilasdair]

Horses normally sort out dominance without even fighting - posturing is enough. Your issue is that your yard has made the classic mistake of matching horses - all geldings, probably all a similar age, similar height and so on. It's hard for them to sort out hierarchy without fighting as they are so closely matched. In nature, this would mimic (to some extent) bachelor herds of young stallions, whose job is to test each other with a view to winning the reproductive rights to some mares...

If you want to have a quieter field environment, turn him out with something smaller, or older, or younger, or female. I appreciate this is counter-intuitive.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I have managed to pair my bit of a terror bully horse successfully it's sort of getting a balance of something not too weak and not too strong seems to work, I did have a mare that lived with him for several years but I would say she was a bit obsessed with him but generally they got on and I managed it.

My horse always terrorised a new horse chasing and being an absolute pain for a few days but then it would settle down once they knew there place, the problem usually continues when you get one that won't back down then I would separate as I won't risk continual fighting and injury.

 

[ycbm]

I don't disagree at all with Shils as regards normal horse interactions, but I have met three horses, one mine and two belonging to others who simply disliked and attacked any other horse they were turned out with, including in my case his own younger brother. Mine grew up with mixed company and came to me from his breeder, so I know he had always had mixed company. He just seemed to hate other horses.

One other person's horse was put in with a small old pony and he ran it so ragged it nearly died. The other has been tried with various combinations of age and sex and he simply attacks anything. He is very settled on his own.

Given the seriousness of your horse's attack I think you should just settle for leaving him on his own and try not to worry about it.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Horses normally sort out dominance without even fighting - posturing is enough. Your issue is that your yard has made the classic mistake of matching horses - all geldings, probably all a similar age, similar height and so on. It's hard for them to sort out hierarchy without fighting as they are so closely matched. In nature, this would mimic (to some extent) bachelor herds of young stallions, whose job is to test each other with a view to winning the reproductive rights to some mares...

If you want to have a quieter field environment, turn him out with something smaller, or older, or younger, or female. I appreciate this is counter-intuitive.

I would agree with this but the 2 mares we had to separate were very different in age, one late teens and the other bought as a 2 yr old, by the time she was 3 they were fighting to the extent that we had to separate them. They both had a field companion with them, though and neither was particularly bossy with the fieldmate. Fortunately all 4 were our own, so we did what we thought was best without any constraints..

 

[DabDab]

My gelding was turned out alone for a few years because he just couldn't be trusted with anything else. He's not super aggressive but is very boisterous and seems to be able to take a hell of a beating himself without batting an eye. I tried turning him out with a variety of other dominant horses that quite merrily knocked seven shades of whatnot out of him and it didn't deter him at all.

While he was on his own he spent a couple of years next to an older gelding who wasn't aggressive but was very strong minded (would be described as mareish if he was a mare), and then his owner and I rented a field together and risked it sticking the two in together. Harmony reigned, huzzah! My boy was definitely much happier once he was in the field with another. He's now out with my two mares and while there is some shenanigans it is all relatively low level. The older of my mares is very similar in temperament to his old gelding friend though.

Worth trying another type of horse over the fence for a while and see how you go. It's no guarantee but you might learn more about what triggers him. I have to say though, with the previous display of aggression you have described I would not be volunteering my horse to go in with yours, and I'm not sure you will find many people that will, sorry

 

[JJS]

Horses normally sort out dominance without even fighting - posturing is enough. Your issue is that your yard has made the classic mistake of matching horses - all geldings, probably all a similar age, similar height and so on. It's hard for them to sort out hierarchy without fighting as they are so closely matched. In nature, this would mimic (to some extent) bachelor herds of young stallions, whose job is to test each other with a view to winning the reproductive rights to some mares...

If you want to have a quieter field environment, turn him out with something smaller, or older, or younger, or female. I appreciate this is counter-intuitive.

I agree with this, but I also wonder whether the years alone prior to you getting him have almost ruined him for company. The problem is that time and a stable herd are probably what’s needed to sort him out, but I wouldn’t want any of mine to go in with a horse who was going to treat them as a punching bag, and I’m sure your fellow liveries will feel the same.

We had a similar scenario recently. My three horses lived with a friend’s three horses in a very stable and settled herd. When another friend got an older and larger mare, she went in with ours, and was a bit of a nightmare to begin with! Said mare had been on individual turnout due to previously being bullied, but it was like she’d lost all of her social skills during that time.

Luckily for her, all of the horses she went in with (a mixed herd of three elderly pony geldings, my two-year old, and two cob mares of seven and nine), were incredibly well socialised, and we were able to give them all enough time and space for her to work out where she slotted in without any mishaps. The one time she did try to have a go at my filly, the whole herd reacted as one to sort her out - a behaviour they carried on until she found her proper place in the group. I actually have a fantastic video of them in action, but can’t upload it on here.

For your gelding, I think this means that you either need to find someone with a well-socialised but not overly dominant horse who’s willing to take the risk, or get a companion of your own who you pick out with your gelding’s needs in mind. Otherwise, he probably has to remain living on his own indefinitely.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

How did he behave once he was in with the mares?

I've known a couple of geldings who are on an even keel and sweet as pie when turned out with more than one mare, but are thugs when out with geldings.

 

[rowan666]

Can you try turning him out with mares? Have you tried other yards with a good mixed herd? I'm guessing those with horses turned out with your bully would be a nervous wreck waiting for him to shred rugs, cause a vets bill or worse!. I think keeping him on his own untill a suitable companion/herd is found is definitely the best option for now and you should try not to worry about him, I know it's not ideal or natural for horses to be kept alone but surely it must be less stressful knowing he can't injure others?
On a side note, have you spoken to any other previous owners? It maybe worth tracing them to find out if this is how hes always been or it just happens that he dislikes the current horses he shares a yard with ??‍