Mare needs to be taught that throwing her weight around is not acceptable, HELP!!

[Georgie-]

This may turn in to a long one!!

I've had my mare on part loan (mine in the week R/S at the weekends, Riding school and horse owned by same people) for 3 years. Then full loan for 4 years. And now bought for 3 months

Whilst on loan I wasn't allowed to move the horse to a different yard as the owner of the horse also owned the land. It was a 10 acre field which she shared with 6 other horses an she was top dog.

She's had a lot of inconsistency in her life which I think explains some of her naughty behaviour in that she was never taught not to behave like that.

She was broken as a 4YO, She was the most gentle horse, I rode her when she was a 5YO... I would have been only ten years old myself and she was an angel perfect (if there's such a thing). She was then professionally schooled for 3 months as her owner wanted to event her she came back a whizz kid at everything, unfortunately her owner lost her own confidence from a nasty fall on another horse and my little darling mare was turned away without human real human contact for about 18 months.

At 7 she was loaned by a unknowledgeable girl who was deluded that she would just be able to get straight on and she'd just be as good as when she was left, she wasn't.. The girl had one too many falls and gave up. She was turned away again without human contact for 18 months.

Now 9 years old, little old me was instructed to go and get her from the field. I was 14 and was finally being told I could ride the beautiful black horse that we'd only ever seen causing havoc in the field. Safe to say I couldn't get near her.. She ran round and round and round and round until eventually we had to heard her in to the yard. Where I managed to get a head collar on. She was fine after that to brush and even ride (except obvious fitness issues and the odd buck when I asked her to do something she didn't want to). I was in love. HA!

My problem is... I've had my horse for all these years in an environment when being 600kg gives you the advantage of not having to come in. In 10 - 15 acres with 6 other stupid horses running rounds it often took up to 2 hours if not longer to catch her!! I've always thought her sketchy past has meant she never had manners reinforced in to her as a youngster. Generally she's gentle with people.. if she's in a good mood she will stand and let me tinker with her for hours. In the stable apart from being nipped by the horse next door she's happy for you to be in there with her and is so nosey when you are nibbling at my hair and grooming me and helping me muck out and such.


I've struggled to catch her for the entirety of that time until 3 months ago when I bought her and moved yards, she's slightly better to catch I can walk up to her in the field. She'll come out of the field but gets in to the yard and turns round and runs off back to the field.. Its not a tug of war its a I'm left dangling on the end of the lead rope like she doesn't even know I'm there!! If I manage to tie her up she just pulls and pulls then buggers off back to the field again!! I refuse to have to bring her field mate in all the time!

Long story short if things aren't going her way she uses her strength against me... and she knows she will win every time because I'm just the puney girl that loves her!

Apologies for the long post thought I'd share her history to see if that would make a difference in the best place to start with her.


New yard new start!!!
How do I teach her some BL**DY manners!!


PS you must think I'm mad putting up with this for so long.. but in every other aspect she has improved so much she's a different horse to the one I took on.. She enjoys going riding now, she doesn't kick she doesn't bite, she's a cracking little horse to ride so clever and willing, and quite trusting, she's a generally a nice horse its just the tantrums I haven't been able to conquer!

 

[FreddiesGal]

You have my complete sympathy! I could have written that post myself.

I have a 6 year old Welsh D who is a little tank. He is in a 10 acre field with 9 other horses, all of whom are catchable (which drives me NUTS!) I have been known to spend 2 hours catching him as I just refuse to let him get away with it. You name it, I have tried it. Separating him in his own paddock on his own, putting him in a little field with a friend, bringing him in for dinner, giving him time away. NOTHING worked! My final resort was leaving a leather head-collar on him. On the rare occasions I managed to catch him he would sometimes bolt away from me and gallop back to the field, or when he was in a smaller paddock he would barge straight through the electric or go UNDER to post and rail.

What makes it worse is he hasn't been ridden for 2 months and all I ever do when bringing him in is give him a look over and a few carrots/treats!!

I haven't got to the bottom of the catching issue, I just hope when there are spaces available at local livery yards with smaller fields and less horses to hooley around him he will be more eager to be caught (pfft - fat chance!!).

My poor boyfriend has given up getting out the car now - he knows that "just popping up" means standing out in the freezing weather trying to catch a stubborn pony!

 

[TigerTail]

I would suggest you get a IHRA out to give you some help with groundwork. Its really helpful having a non biased set of eyes working with you as you cant see what you're doing and are often too close to be able to help yourself properly.

People on here cant really advise without seeing the situation and how you are in your handling skills.

http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html

 

[Georgie-]

I have though in the past had a very reputable natural horsemanship lady local to my area come to see my horse before.. Said horse would have laughed in her face had she had the muscles appropriate to do so!!

Unfortunately now I'm not in a position to throw money at this problem. If I did I would have do so!

I know no one can correctly say without seeing the problem but I was just looking for people who have had a similar problem or is having a similar problem and how their dealing/dealt with it.

 

[Lucy_Ally]

Sounds so similar to my horse (even colour the same!). She would always let me catch her, but then plant her feet or whip round and gallop off dragging me with her. I used to have to catch her with a lunge line, chifney and friend with a lunge whip then practically lunge her to the gate. Once out of the field she accepts it though and would be ok. I used a Richard Maxwell Be Nice halter and did lots and lots of groundwork, also made decision to have her on individual turnout and this really helped. She is now not clingy but will still try it on occasionally coming in (usually with new people).
Sadly though, she does know how strong she is and will always have this stubborn opinionated streak in her. As soon as we get to a situation on the ground she doesn't like (such as loading), her default is to set her neck use her strength and b*gger off! I am better now at spotting the warning signs, but if she makes her mind up to go 60kg of me against 600kg of her doesen't stand a chance!
My advice: lots of groundwork and consistency, everything black and white good and bad. She needs to learn boundaries with no grey areas. Be firm but not shouty or smacking (this just makes mine angry and more likely to get bargey). Get a pressure halter and someone to teach you to use it.
Good luck! We are a million times better, but I will never trust her 100% not to be a bag when we have a disagreement!!

 

[Brightbay]

Just a small general tip - you should never try to train a "not"

So don't start with what you don't want your horse to do. Start instead by making a list of the things you DO want your horse to do, and then once you have the list, start working out how you train those things.

From the way you describe it, the mare has never had this training, or if she has, there's been nothing in it for her. A horse who's difficult to catch isn't being rude, they're voting with their feet Their previous experience of being caught has not led to something they feel is good or worthwhile, and has most likely led to something - in their eyes - bad or to be avoided.

I would suggest - and obviously it's up to you to decide whether these apply or not - that you need to train your horse to willingly place their nose into an offered headcollar, you need to train your horse to walk quietly alongside you (not pulling ahead or lagging behind), you need to train your horse to stop when you stop, you need to train your horse to stand quietly when you stand, you need to train your horse to move quietly sideways away from you, and to back up when asked. These are all basic things every horse should understand - and to train them, you need to focus on looking for small steps towards your end goal, and making sure that your horse knows they've done the right thing, and rewarding them for that in as positive a way as you can.

Once you've trained those things, you will be able to stop worrying about how big the horse is and whether or not they know they're bigger than you (horses aren't stupid, they do know we're smaller - it's never an issue of who's stronger, more one of achieving willing cooperation without having to resort to force).

So, set out the positive goals you want to achieve, and how you are going to achieve them, and then you're more than half way to your goal If you take a positive approach to training this using lots of reward, you may find your catching issue is resolved along the way

 

[Lucy_Ally]

Completely agree with Brightbay, focussing on the positives and rewards (a pat, scratch or "good girl") made all the difference, while ignoring her when she behaved in a way that was unacceptable. We still do out manners training once a week/fortnight, where she has to stop, walk, back up and move over as soon as I ask and it does help remind her of what she should be doing!!