Mare out of sync with foal condition wise

[pinkcatkin]

My foal is 16 weeks today and is looking fab, possibly too fab. Whereas mare is not looking fab. Her ribs are showing, her hipbones are much more obvious than before and she has slight poverty lines down her bum.

She cannot be described as thin (she and foal are pure Irish Draught) but she is being assessed for a breeding premium soon and I want her to look as well as possible without passing any more condition to the foal.

Is this at all possible and if so what should I use to give her a boost?

She is currently having small morning and evening feed of low energy cubes, they are out at night on not very good grass and in during day with equivalent of large net of hay in morning and again at lunchtime.

Any advice much appreciated.

 

[AmyMay]

Put her on a stud mix. Sounds as if she's giving everything to her foal, and keeping nothing for herself.

Feed her three times a day at the recommended amount - and don't let the baby eat any.

She should be looking glorious.

 

[juliehannah58]

I am having the exact same problem! My filly is huge (13hh at 13 weeks!) and looking amazing! But my poor mare is not, she like your girl isn't skinny but she's lost all top line and you can see her ribs. She's normally a good doer and I'm feeding her quite a lot but after speaking to my farrier, vet and breeding friend all of them are not at all concerned about her but more about the foal if I up her feed!

I have been warned not to feed too much protein as it all seems to go straight to the filly and she is huge already. I have recently changed her onto simple systems feed and she does look a bit better I have to say (only been 2 weeks) but it's a slow process.

I'm holding out for weaning and just making sure she has milk and is well in herself. A lot of broodmares are like this at the moment and i can't imagine she'd get marked down for it, it's perfectly normal.

 

[AmyMay]

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A lot of broodmares are like this at the moment

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Not the ones on my yard......

Although I do appreciate, obviously, that every mare is different.

 

[pinkcatkin]

THanks guys, off to mill at lunchtime so will see what I can get in way of stud mix.

 

[nikkiportia]

Do increase her feed a bit as AM suggested, just please be careful she doesn't end up giving all that away to the foal as well. If she is the type of mare who does her foals very well, you may end up with a very bullish foal and risk it going upright.
Last time I saw your foal, she did look very well

(and gorgeous!) talk to your vet next time you see him/her and ask if they would recommend earlier weaning. We have the occasional mare who gives too much condition to the foal, and often wean early in order to put condition back on the mare as well as knock the foal back a bit.
Good luck

x

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]
THanks guys, off to mill at lunchtime so will see what I can get in way of stud mix.

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Please DON'T!! I have made this mistake in the past. Cleo is a very similar ty[pe to your mare and I shoved the feed into her to try and fatten her up for the Hornby a couple of years ago. The foal got OCD.

Last year, I said 'hang the Premium - it's not worth it!' That foal is fine.

This year I have managed to keep a reasonable amount of condition on her just with good haylage - if it's not enough I don't care.

And if she's not proof enough, last year I put an old TB mare who was VERY thin - and an old RID mare who was with her on extra concentrates late in lactation. BOTH foals are showing symptoms of OCD in their stifles.

I am VERY convinced that the main cause of OCD is a growth spurt in late lactation - the extra concentrates wopn't do anything for the mare at this stage - inpections are in about 10 days - but chances are the milk boost will wreck your foal!!!!

And OCD means nearly £2,000 in surgery and a LOT of box rest. It is NOT worth it for a Hornby.

 

[nikkiportia]

Interesting JG, I have to agree with you, I just didn't want to sound too harsh by saying 'don't increase the feed'

It really is important to look at the foal before deciding what to give the mare. As I've already said, increasing the feed to a mare who has a very 'well' foal, will just make the foal put on even more condition, and subsequently you will end up with problems like OCD.
It's is hard for people to look at their mare losing condition, but it is not long term. Once the foal is weaned and the milk has dried up, then you can concentrate on the mare.

 

[maestro]

Please listen to JG. mares that do foals well will just keep doing that if you up her feed. I even had one mare a Han/Welsh cob mare who unless she looked almost poor her foals started going upright. Ideally get foals eating a small feed with suregrow or surelimb and wean promptly, then you can get the condition safely back onto the mare.

 

[Fleur100]

My vet recommends vegetable oil in the feed, as much as the mare will take.

 

[pinkcatkin]

Thanks for all your comments, I constantly inspect my foal for any signs of becoming upright.

YOu are right Janet, HP is not worth any risk to my beautiful foal and if the mare doesn't get it because of condition, then that is too bad.

Do you think there is a risk of OCD with too much hay?

 

[toffeesmarty]

I was going to post exactly the same today after seeing my mare yesterday. Cookie is rougly growing at 1/2" inch a week. Is regular growth at this rate ok - or is it too much? I have upped mare's haylage but obviously Cookie can access this too, however, am so pleased to see that this is common problem.

 

[christine48]

I have the same problem my foal is carrying too much condition and the mare looks lean. They are due for weaning but we were advised by the vet at the evaluations to watch her food and not overfeed her. The problem is that if you do feed the mare she will give more back to the foal. She will pick up after weaning.

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]


Do you think there is a risk of OCD with too much hay?

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OCD is associated with sudden growth spurts and it's very hard to be definite about ANYTHING to do with it. It is more common in horses wsith high growth rates (which the ID certainly has!) and in mares who are fed high levels of concentrates.

My PERSONAL theory - based purely on my own experiences - is that concentrates (particularly in late lactation) boost both the quality and quantity of milk at a time when foalie SHOULD be getting less milk - and is already eating plenty of grass and hay/haylage himself. And THAT causes the growth spurt. This year, none of my mares has had concentrates since about 4 weeks post foaling - but they've had ample haylage plus Sure Limb. There are two (of 10 RID mares) who aren't good doers and I've been feeding them two sorts of haylage to boost their intake - normal grass haylage and some rather nice Sainfoin haylage (similar to lucerne/alfalfa but even nice and more digestible without the bloating potential!). Whether it's been enough I'll find out in 10 days - the foals are doing well - but not ridiculously so and IF my theory is correct, then they should be fine!

 

[JanetGeorge]

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A lot of broodmares are like this at the moment and i can't imagine she'd get marked down for it, it's perfectly normal.

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Unfortunately, they are - just as they would be in the show ring against mares who have held their condition better.

The Hornby Premiums (for graded Irish Draught mares only) are judged on the same criteria as the normal grading inspection - but to be awarded a Hornby, a mare must score 125 out of a possible 145 (whereas a mare might grade with as little as 100.)

The marks are awarded against the mental picture of the perfect RID mare - so mares in poor condition will lose points on their topline, neck, and hindquarter scores at least - as will young mares.

My Cleo graded at 3 on 116 - at her first Hornby we'd managed to hold her condition and she scored 123 and got the Hornby with foal taken into account (the Inspectors can do this if the mare is just a couple of points under but the foal is very good!)

For her next one, I didn't manage to keep the weight on her and her score dropped to 115 - so no Hornby!

HOPEFULLY, this year she'll be good enough.

 

[toffeesmarty]

Thanks again for your knowledge Janet. It seems balancing out the needs of our mares whilst not 'overfeeding' foalie is an art. My foal is still relatively young (nine weeks now). Compared to the photos of those who were in the Futurity who in the main appear much older - how come these mares all looked so well?

 

[juliehannah58]

Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge JG! My mare is 3/4 ID so is a similar type and although the filly is half SF you would never know it, she is more ID than her mum!! She is a BIG strong foal but I am constantly feeling guilty for my mare looking lean. Reading how others are suffering the same issue reassures me though and I will resist temptation to up her feed.

All of the knowledgable people I have asked advice from, vets, breeders, farriers etc say that the mare is fine and to concentrate on the foal.

 

[delphipuppy]

Mares are so different in the way they hold weight. I have one mare who stays a dumpling with a foal at foot yet another mare I have puts everything into her foals.

She is on ad lib hay, loads of grass, stud and youngstock mix, rugged up, wormed regularly and teeth done but still drops condition drastically with a foal at foot. She is so generous that I have left her barren this year so I can feed her up when this foal is weaned as I dont want to overfeed her now and risk the foal who is looking great.

 

[Enfys]

This filly is 13 weeks old, and the mare is 18 and giving everything to her and looks frightful. I know exactly how you feel.

The Vet took one look at the mare and promptly said "Oh, you've got one of those" she's had bloods, is vaccinated to the hilt, teeth, wormed etc and still looks like a rescue case with no top line, and bones showing everywhere. I have been told NOT to feed the mare other than good grass and free-choice hay, the foal will be weaned at about 5 months purely because I need to get some weight on Lola for the winter.

I have had mares that positively bloom with a foal at foot, and others, like Lola that make me feel as if I am doing something very wrong. It is just the way she is and I have to accept that, if the Vet is happy, then I can't do anything more.