Mare that Rears ?

cvd1381

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Okay, so I am really really confused about what to do with her at the moment, so many people have told many a billion different things, and i was wondering if any one on here (which im sure they have) have had similar experiences, and what worked for them ?

right, so we bought millie about a month and half ago, we basically brought a pony off a dealer, he was extremely unsuitable (yes, even worse than what millie is
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) so our only option was to swap him for one slightly more suitable, or be stuck with him. Millie happened to be the sanest i guess you could say most qualified one on offer, so we took her, thinking that if she was unrideable then at least we could possibly breed from her.. as she wasnt an expensive horse at all, and was generally going to be used as a hack/fun horse we didnt get her vetted- yes it isnt very sensible, but at the end of the day she wasnt expensive and it was either her or the extremely mental pony. Anyway, we took back this literal bag of bones, a 15.2hh full TB mare obvs. She was timid, never made an attempt to approach us and as i said was in terrible condition, ewe necked, count all the ribs etc. she was also (and still is) EXTREMELY clingy to the ponies sharing her feild.. We contacted her old owner and discovered that she had raced a few times when she was younger and also done affilliated eventing, not to a high level but still done okay, i actually think she had been placed once or twice, but then she got sold under the understanding she would go back to her original owner when she was to be resold she obviosuly didnt, and got sold to a bloke who was a complete novice, who rang up the woman and said how much of a cow she was that bit and kicked him etc, she then got passed through dealers and ended up with us. She gradually put on weight and now looks in fab condition, she also became much more comftorable with us handling her, she is actually really loving now. Yeah she's really tempermental when shes in season, but weve been feeding her this supplement that seems to have levelled her out a bit. We got her back checked out and there were bits and peices that were abit wonky, and she had to adjust mil's pelvis, but the back lady said she should be fine to carry on with work after a few days (prior to this i had only been lunging her) her feet were also in a state so we have had her reshod there now fine, dentist is coming in a few weeks. On the lunge she was fine, a little fizzy but started responding to my voice and was going really well. I got on her in the school, and then things went downhill. she appeared like she had forgotten how to trot, she would either stand still or canter/bunny hop around. she would then stand still when she felt like she didnt want to do anything else, or go sidewards, when i tried to convince her to go forwards, she would turn and look at my feet then either go backwards or raise her front feet of the ground, you know like not a proper vertical rear, just a couple of feet of the ground. I hacked her up the lane the next time, going away from the feild she was fine, walked like an angel, jogged abit but still, then we turned heading back towards the feild, and when she got to a certain point she would just freak and go backwards sidewards, into bollards bushes, nearly into parked cars everything, she mini reared again. the only way i got her back up was by someone leading her away. i didnt understand this, if it had been the other way round, i.e going away from the field id of just put it down to napping to go home, but it was really puzzling. Still i attempted to go down the lane again, and as i expected she did exactly the same, but i just walked her up and down up and down for ages until she stopped, she seemed to give in and then afterwards was walking fine. i thought we'd had a mini breakthrough ! the next time i rode her in the school she was pretty well behaved in comparison, she was cantering forwards nicely, trot still wasnt there but at least she was going forwards, she stopped dead twice, but actually walked off without someone leading her just after me using some leg. i was (foolishly
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) really pleased and thought things might be getting better. then the next time i rode her, she was an utter COW. refused to go forwards what so ever, just kept on stopping, mini reared about 5 times. still wouldnt walk off. ignoring my leg so gave her a tap with my crop, still ignored it so gave her a smack, still ignored me, when i used my leg again she went straight up vertical, when she landed, still stood still, went through the squeezing/kicking rigmarole and she did it again, this time idk if it was my balance or w/e but she felt like she was tipping backwards, i bailed out. she stood there while i caught her. rightly or wrongly as ive been told by everyone, i cracked her round the bum with my crop a few times, she looked terrified and tbh i felt really really guilty, whites of her eyes were showing, she was shaking etc etc. so i remounted, got my mum to walk the side of me, then gradually move away till she was in the middle. Millie does it again. by this time my mothers going mental at me, telling me to get off her 'not worth it' etc. im incredibly angry, big argument with mum cos i dont want to let millie win. so i got off her and untacked her, turned her back out, when i let her off she galloped off and leaped about pawing the air- like an act of defiance, which annoyed me more! so i really really dont know what to do with her ??

theres a couple of options:

*put her in foal, theres a really nice stallion we could use for her that passes his amazing temperament onto all his offsprings, but we were told that a foal is 75% its mother, so would still carry her traits, but saying that shes lovely on the ground.
*Send her away to be reschooled, dont know if this would work, is also quite expensive.
*get rid of her, have no idea what we would sell her as though, im not one for lying to sell a horse. i could not sell her to be ridden.
*continue riding her through it and face being seriosuly injured, in a way i want to carry on an work through it, but ive heard that many horror stories about rearers, idk if its sensible, especially as i have my main horse who i jump bsja with almost every wkend and cant really afford to be out of action with. i mean do things like standing martingales, market harborough etc work ?

shes meant to be for me to jump eventually, and my competent mother to hack, is she worth it ? shes not going to be a superstar or w.e but like i say shes really nice natured, and could in the long run be a nice horse..

i dont know if im doing the right thing with her, im not a novice i wouldnt say, i broke in a 13.2hh we rescued from scratch and produced him to jumping discovery, he's jumping 2nd rounds now with his new rider, im fairly confident though i must admit the rearing buisness is denting it a bit with mil, i dont mid anything- bucking, napping, spooking etc. but rearing its just- eeeek...
i mean someone went mad about me bailing out 'going i wouldnt of-now shes got away with it...blah blah blah'
and then others saying thats what i shouldve done, and to get shot of her.

it just seems a shame cos shes really sweet in other respects, and does have a promising jump. (seen her loose jumped)

i really really really dont know what to do with her. i dont think the reason behind it is her teeth, because i never had a strong contact, and are not paticualry heavy handed, she has a mild bit in. her mouth doesnt seem to be causing her discomfort, idk.

i reckon its something that happened with the bloke, like something phsycological ?
or do you think shes just trying it on ?
should i just ride her through it ?
someone said to try xc schooling-get her thinking forwards, not upwards./backwards/sidewards ?

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sorry about the life story but thought it was best to include all the info, incase it was of any relevance.


any help tips would be greatly appreciated.
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okay there is alot going on here. would you consider going back to basics, like turning her away for a while then starting from scratch?
 
Wow, poor, poor horse. Put yourself in her shoes for a minute. She has been shoved from pillar to post and then some.

I think you have definitely done the right thing by addressing her physical issues, it would seem that it is her psychological issues that need dealing with-and fast.

There are some excellent resources out there if you would like to try a more behavioural approach, but they are not quick fixes and often require you to spend time not riding (for the safety of both of you). PM me if you would like more info.

Remember horses are prey animals-we are predators-total opposite ends of the spectrum. Under pressure we tend to get more predatory-and horses act more like the prey!

Horses don't think about "winning" they just think about surviving and out-persisting us.

Please do get some professional help-not someone who is of the bigger stick-bigger bit school of thinking.

Good luck,

And PLEASE don't breed from her!!!! Its not a cheap option and as your mare will influence much of the foal's behaviour after birth then there is every chance of a foal with issues too.

There are too many unwanted horses in the world already. Sounds too like you are quite young and you might not want the responsibility of a young horse in a year or two.

Again, good luck.
 
If she really scares you, give up now, you're not the person to sort it.

If you are confident with bad behavior but you don't really know what to do to improve things, maybe send the horse to bootcamp locally with a good professional, who can get her going then teach you what you need to do to carry on in the right direction.

The horse might well just be a bit screwed-up, unsettled and lacking confidence in you so she's acting up out of fear. Hence why she'd need a very confident rider to overcome this issue. Its also possible that she's got an unknown physical problem or she's not right in the head, in which case, take care, recognize when its getting dangerous and when its time to give up.

Good luck with her.
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how old is she? and how old when she raced? what about treating her like a complete baby and you riding her whilst your mum lunges her. then she would have both of you to push her forwards if she is stupid. but be careful, no horse is ever worth having land on you, excuse or not. our exracer tb (who hasn't raced for over 10years but you couldn't tell) sometimes has a mental block where his brain disintergrates and he cant move or else goes backwards very fast (someone at somepoint has given him a hell of a beating probably from going up) as he to scared to rear. he goes completely leg dead, wont move any direction, head up, high snorts the lot. i have been riding out with another brave horse who the monsters can eat first who defuses the problem by walking straight past idiot horse who then wants to keep up. then you can pick your battles so you a)in a safe place e.g. not on the road b) not knackered from the other fights. the guy probably put her in a position where she got scared, no one reassured her , she panicked, he hit her and she now completely over reacts as she doesn't believe anyone listens. oh and our lad novice evented fine, just don't try walk around the jumps!
 
It sounds like a pain issue. One "back person" says she's OK, but she hasn't been scanned or X-rayed, and "back people" can't diagnose torn ligaments, kissing spines, etc. It sounds as if carrying weight is the issue; you say she has a great jump - so did a horse we had - but not with a rider on board; (she had kissing spines.)

Is this dealer beyond the reach of trading standards and the small claims court? Sounds like you need to make a claim against him. To be blunt, however sweet the mare is, she sounds unrideable, ie not fit for purpose. You don't mention money, so I hope there isn't too much of it involved. If she had any value as a broodmare, she would have been sent to a broodmare sale when she came out of training. There is already an over-supply of horses out there; and you have probably heard the expression 'Fools breed horses for wise men to buy'? Need I say more?

If at worst, you end up having her PTS at least you will know she won't end up in another awful home, and she will have had a nice time with you.

Really sorry to be so blunt and pessimistic but I suspect I won't be the only one thinking along these lines, on reading your post.
 
Yes, i know reading it back it sounds a bit like I'm not thinking about Millie, and are just looking for a quick route with her so i can go and jump an whatever-I'm not. I'm not looking for a quick route, we turned her away for the first month (not a very long time at all i do realise) I just don't think the rearing's going to stop, and I dont want to end up in hospital. i really do think its phsycological but cant understand what exactly.. i'm just really confused at the moment, I have people with the bigger whip-harsher bit approach telling me one thing and then others telling me something completely different. Because sometimes it really does seem like she is just trying to push me ? I'm trying to see things from her point of view, but it gets hard when your quite a few feet up in the air...

the more i think about having her put in foal- the less it appeals to us, the foal wouldnt be for me anyway..

taking on board what youve said i guess turning her away could be an option, & trying to find the right person to work with her is an issue.. i mean who can you trust ? i dont want her messed up even more bless her..
 
tryingmum - I agree with what you say . My boy could loose jump but ask him to do any collected work under saddle and he would have a major paddy, going backwards not full blown rearing but I think that would of happened eventually. Kissing spine was the diagnosis and he had the op which was a success.
CVD have you had the vet out to give her the once over ?
Just to rule out any health issues. If he gives a clean bill of health at least then you will know.So can then decide what is the best course of action.
 
I'd read up on kissing spines, does seem unfortunatley plausible.. I'm thinking about getting her scanned and x-rayed etc, I definatley wouldnt have her put down, I wouldnt sell her on at all thinking about it- shes kept in our own feild so If the worst happens and i cant ever ride her again, she can be left our for the rest of her days and brushed.
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this contradicts what i said previously but ive been seriously thinking about options with her, but I've definatley ruled out selling her on.. Wouldnt be fair on her.
Putting her in foal doesnt seem sensible at all either, could worsen an unknown physical problem ? and the foal could be just as bad.

I think i'm definatley going to look into some proffesionals round here, and into getting her checked out.

thanks for the advice about it.
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Oh yes sorry, i meant i wouldnt have her put down unless it was in her best interest of course.

Oh and the vet did give her a quick look over- obviously didnt go into too much detail, just said that when trotted she ever so slightly twisted her one hind leg inwards, other than that couldnt see much up, but like i say he didnt go into much detail just looked her over really. He said that if we were still having problems with her in a few weeks, He'd come back out and look her over more thoroughly so i think thats what I'm going to do. I guess its not fair to be blaming her & continuing to ride her if shes in some pain. I suppose it would explain why she only plays up under saddle- well with weight on her back..
 
If and it's a big if - a kissing spine problem don't be in a hurry to write her off. As I said in my last post my boy was operated on and he came back into work easily popping over 1m 20
Unfortunately some people once they realise their horse has a problem they sell them on - I think this is what happened with my boy. I wouldn't mind but I had a 5 stage vetting and nothing untoward showed up !!
Glad to hear you will keep her though
Good luck with what ever you decide
 
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