Markfield Building HUGE for BS!

BYR

BYR

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Has anyone else noticed that markfield seem to build their BS courses absaloutly huge!!

We went yesterday and everything was upto height with maximum spreads, and 3 doubles and a water tray in the newcomers!

Also noticed the numbers were very low, they got through the BN and Disco in 1.5 hours so couldnt have been many in them, there was only 8 in the 1.05m and about 10 in the newcomers. Only one through to 2nd phase in 1.05 (unfortunatly not me!) and most others had huge amounts of faults, pretty much the same in newcomers.

Surely if they built in keeping with other venues they would get more competitors, especially as though its not the best warm up and tight indoors :confused:
 
I think Markfield have always been known for being big and beefy - there are other venues that are a bit softer. I've not jumped there for about 7 years but always found them to be much bigger feeling coursesthan other places.
ETA - is that you M? Its E with the ex racers. Was interested to notice on your facebook pics that they didn't have the new BSJA safety cups - looked like the old metal ones?
:-)
 
Yes its me M !

Yes i noticed when he was altering the course that they were the old metal ones with pins. I wonder if it is a rule for venues to have those safety cups ?
 
Interesting re. the jump cups! I took my mare for her first ever BSJA show there last year, and thought it was decent, but I did have 4yr old eyes in :p I'm not moaning if it's quiet, am aiming to go up there a few times to jump BN/Disco's over the winter, as they are the closest venue that holds those classes at the weekend.

Had you been before?
 
fleabitten grey - please tell me what ETA means? I keep seeing it and don't understand!

OP - I hate Markfield. The warm up is foul and tiny and I found the competitors really rude and agressive - one girl smacked her horse across the face with her whip and flounced off in tears because she'd been eliminated and threw the reins at her mother. I'd have smacked her backside if she were my daughter. And another woman nearly smacked poor Tee in the face with her whip whilst she was battering her horse in the collecting ring because she was eliminated too.

Charming. I haven't been back for about 5 years, the experience was so horrible. Shame really, as it's really easy to get to and the comp arena is lovely.
 
Haven't been for about a year so it may have changed, but I think they do build quite beefy but it wouldn't be so bad if you were jumping on a decent surface...if they had a lighter brighter surface and changed the horrid orange lights for white ones I could just about bear the tiny warm up and may start going there again!
 
I think ETA means edited to add , but correct me if im wrong!

Yes we had been once before last year but it was his first ever BS so I didnt have anything to compare it too. I like it quiet too, I cant imagine that warm up if it was as busy as Arena UK or Hargate! I just thought for their own benefit they would make more money if they had more numbers.

re aggresive riders, as I was going in for my 1.05 the girl before had been eliminated, and as I entered the arena she did a quick about turn and jumped a fence stright into me which totally upset my boy and very nearly caused a bad accident , then started swearing at me! But other than that we hadnt seen any trouble there and the organisers seem friendly enough.
 
Again I've not been for a number of years, but I hear Marchington is v nice now, if you are looking for indoor winter jumpin . Or was it you/your mum that was telling me that?!
 
I used to jump my ponies at Markfield 25 years ago - other than the roof on the collecting ring (it used to be an outdoor) it's barely changed at all!

I don't think they build particularly bigger than other local BSJA venues though? :confused:
 
fleabittengrey said:
Again I've not been for a number of years, but I hear Marchington is v nice now, if you are looking for indoor winter jumpin . Or was it you/your mum that was telling me that?!
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yep I think it was mum :D they have a new outdoor arena that is supposed to be very good so we are going to have a look at that in a couple of weeks and also vale view have their first BS this month too, so we dont really need Markfield anymore, just wondered what others opinions were on the fence height!
 
BYR said:
Has anyone else noticed that markfield seem to build their BS courses absaloutly huge!!

We went yesterday and everything was upto height with maximum spreads, and 3 doubles and a water tray in the newcomers!

Also noticed the numbers were very low, they got through the BN and Disco in 1.5 hours so couldnt have been many in them, there was only 8 in the 1.05m and about 10 in the newcomers. Only one through to 2nd phase in 1.05 (unfortunatly not me!) and most others had huge amounts of faults, pretty much the same in newcomers.

Surely if they built in keeping with other venues they would get more competitors, especially as though its not the best warm up and tight indoors :confused:
Click to expand...

BYR said:
Yes its me M !

Yes i noticed when he was altering the course that they were the old metal ones with pins. I wonder if it is a rule for venues to have those safety cups ?
Click to expand...

I don't have any experience of Markfield (though the surface and lighting sound delightfull - not!), but I do have a question:

Before I ask it, please, NOBODY TAKE IT PERSONALLY - I upset a boy dreadfully last night when I made a comment about welfare issues relating to fat horses and I certainly don't want to repeat that!

Right, here we go:

The British Showjumping Yearbook dictates the specification that classes should be build to - the only caveat being relating to ground conditions (stemming from when we all jumped on grass/mud), so can someone please tell me why people get upset that a Newcomers track is set at 1.10m? Incidentally, there should be 2 fences at 1.15m as well and the water tray is mandatory.

IMHO, any course designer than builds a track that isn't up to height isn't actually doing the competitors any favours - at the end of the day, you're expected to jump 1.25m in the second rounds, so what's the point of qualifying at 1.05m or less?

This isn't meant to be rude, but it is something that I hear quite often and it's always puzzled me.

PS: Re the safety cup query:
They only have to be on the back bars of oxers and the middle element of a triple bar. Strangely, there's no requirement for safety cups in the practice area - I find this quite bizarre.

PPS: I do think 3 doubles in what sounds a fairly compact arena is getting a bit overexcited!
 
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killikyle said:
I don't have any experience of Markfield (though the surface and lighting sound delightfull - not!), but I do have a question:

Before I ask it, please, NOBODY TAKE IT PERSONALLY - I upset a boy dreadfully last night when I made a comment about welfare issues relating to fat horses and I certainly don't want to repeat that!

Right, here we go:

The British Showjumping Yearbook dictates the specification that classes should be build to - the only caveat being relating to ground conditions (stemming from when we all jumped on grass/mud), so can someone please tell me why people get upset that a Newcomers track is set at 1.10m? Incidentally, there should be 2 fences at 1.15m as well and the water tray is mandatory.

IMHO, any course designer than builds a track that isn't up to height isn't actually doing the competitors any favours - at the end of the day, you're expected to jump 1.25m in the second rounds, so what's the point of qualifying at 1.05m or less?

This isn't meant to be rude, but it is something that I hear quite often and it's always puzzled me.

PS: Re the safety cup query:
They only have to be on the back bars of oxers and the middle element of a triple bar. Strangely, there's no requirement for safety cups in the practice area - I find this quite bizarre.

PPS: I do think 3 doubles in what sounds a fairly compact arena is getting a bit overexcited!
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I agree that a BS course should be testing and you should be prepared for upto height fences but it seems quite unusual (as far as ive seen) for every single fence to be at the max?

I have only just started BS this year so I cant say im experienced but it was certainly off putting to me (and others looking at the numbers) going into a fairly tight arena with max height fences and difficult turns, the course builder seemed to have put everything he could in the courses to catch a rider out :confused: , its nice to ride a testing course but surely he should aim for more than one through to the 2nd phase in a class?
 
BYR said:
I agree that a BS course should be testing and you should be prepared for upto height fences but it seems quite unusual (as far as ive seen) for every single fence to be at the max?

I have only just started BS this year so I cant say im experienced but it was certainly off putting to me (and others looking at the numbers) going into a fairly tight arena with max height fences and difficult turns, the course builder seemed to have put everything he could in the courses to catch a rider out :confused: , its nice to ride a testing course but surely he should aim for more than one through to the 2nd phase in a class?
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It's only just sunk in that your over-excited course builder had the Newcomers as a 2-phase - it should be an A7! The only exceptions to this are fading light / entries in excess of 50, naughty man/woman!

There should be a minimum of 8 fences in the first round/phase, and 80% of the track has to be built at the upper height limit (there's no rule to say that it all can't), so, realistically, you're only ever going to get the first fence at a "let up".

I do believe though, that there's an "unwritten rule" that tracks should be softer (design as opposed to height) at the beginning of the indoor season to help horses make the transition to tighter lines to the fences.

There's crap builders everywhere I'm afraid, but any designer that chucks in dodgy distances etc to catch novice horses out is just a muppet IMO. They should be there to encourage the horse to jump and the tracks should reflect that. It's a completely different ball game when you get up to the likes of a 1.30m when part of the decision can be to go on a short 5 or a long 4 in a related distance - that's a legitimate part of the challenge. Novices should always be encouraged to jump out of a good forward canter.

Oops, feeling soapbox creeping out of the corner, so will stop now lol!
 
First time I went to Arena UK, I thought they'd forgotten to put the fences down....turns out, they hadn't!! After that, Markfield with its lack of scary fillers seemed a breeze!
 
What a shame Markfield hasn't got the cash (presumably) for a proper overhaul.
We've been going to western shows there for about 5 years, mainly because it's a handy qualifier for the WES champs and the organisers (who aren't Markfield staff) are so nice.
They have done bits and pieces over the years like painting the arena walls white which helps with the gloominess, but our mare has always hated the surface there.
This year they mixed in some woodchip which improved it VERY slightly but we were still having to dig out her feet in between classes.
The main arena isn't actually a bad size for an older venue, but the warm up is hideously small (hate to think how you practice jump in it!) We have sometimes warmed up on their nice outdoor, but it isn't always available.

What a pity, cos I love the spacious lorry park and decent viewing gallery, and the location is great. Someone buy them a lottery ticket :)
 
KatB said:
Lol CrazyMare! I went to AUK for the festival, and it looked teeny! Maybe I'm just getting braver ;)
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Definitely depends who's building at Arena UK - Di Boddy certainly has a different measuring stick to the other BSJA builders (and theirs are way longer than anyone elses :eek:) My heart sinks when I see Di's name on the schedule!
 
One course builder said to me once "It wasn't even upto height, I'd even taken the measuring stick off my foot!" :o :o when talking about someone whinging about how big his courses were ;)
 
Markfield tracks have always been known for being up to height and of a strong nature. Paul Thompson who is the resident course builder is extremely experienced. The class yesterday that OP is referring to was a 1.05 Open, the clue is in the title of the class - an OPEN class. The horse that won turned in a rythmical round, the rider used all of the arena and was a pleasure to what.

As for safety cups all the back bars of the oxers had safety cups and the cups on the practice fences drop if a horse kicks the pole hard.

If you can jump round a Paul Thompson track you will be doing well and able to cope anywhere.
 
sillygillyhorse said:
Markfield tracks have always been known for being up to height and of a strong nature. Paul Thompson who is the resident course builder is extremely experienced. The class yesterday that OP is referring to was a 1.05 Open, the clue is in the title of the class - an OPEN class. The horse that won turned in a rythmical round, the rider used all of the arena and was a pleasure to what.

As for safety cups all the back bars of the oxers had safety cups and the cups on the practice fences drop if a horse kicks the pole hard.

If you can jump round a Paul Thompson track you will be doing well and able to cope anywhere.
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Yep, puts it in a slightly different perspective (and explains the 2-phase too) - I thought it was a Newcomers being referred to.
 
sillygillyhorse said:
Markfield tracks have always been known for being up to height and of a strong nature. Paul Thompson who is the resident course builder is extremely experienced. The class yesterday that OP is referring to was a 1.05 Open, the clue is in the title of the class - an OPEN class. The horse that won turned in a rythmical round, the rider used all of the arena and was a pleasure to what.

As for safety cups all the back bars of the oxers had safety cups and the cups on the practice fences drop if a horse kicks the pole hard.

If you can jump round a Paul Thompson track you will be doing well and able to cope anywhere.
Click to expand...


Sorry only just caught up on this, yes it was the 1.05 class I was refering to when I said 2nd phase which was a 2 phase class. The winner was well deserved and would have no doubtably still won had there been more through, this was never disputed!

As I said im new to BS and am not up on all the rules and regulations yet , it would take me a year to read the rule book front to back! But ive learnt a lot from this thread so thanks to all for contributing :)
 
water tray in the newcomers!

If your'e thinking of going to Vale View and have an issue about a water tray - I went in 75cm Unaffilliated (I hadn't jumped for 7 months, but I shouldn't have to justify that) and there was 3 water trays in the first round. :eek:
 
meardsall_millie said:
Definitely depends who's building at Arena UK - Di Boddy certainly has a different measuring stick to the other BSJA builders (and theirs are way longer than anyone elses :eek:) My heart sinks when I see Di's name on the schedule!
Click to expand...

I think she built 2/3rds of the eventing SJing tracks I jumped this year and all of the BYEH ones :eek:. I reckon I can spot a Di track without recourse to the programme! ;)
 
Shame that some venues still seem to be "building small" - there really should be no doubt about the height of a 1.05M class. Technicality can and should change between amateur classes, national qualifiers, young horse classes, and opens.

Safety cups are not on practice fences as these are unsupervised. It is hard enough to keep these close to the height of fences in the ring. Many riders will not use the inserts, as they will not mind the horse respecting the back rail a little. What then happens to the rider behind them who expects a safety cup? It is more a practical policing problem - a steward in the collecting ring will cost the show - is it worth £1 on entry fees for all riders?
 
killikyle said:
It's only just sunk in that your over-excited course builder had the Newcomers as a 2-phase - it should be an A7! The only exceptions to this are fading light / entries in excess of 50, naughty man/woman!

There should be a minimum of 8 fences in the first round/phase, and 80% of the track has to be built at the upper height limit (there's no rule to say that it all can't), so, realistically, you're only ever going to get the first fence at a "let up".

I do believe though, that there's an "unwritten rule" that tracks should be softer (design as opposed to height) at the beginning of the indoor season to help horses make the transition to tighter lines to the fences.

There's crap builders everywhere I'm afraid, but any designer that chucks in dodgy distances etc to catch novice horses out is just a muppet IMO. They should be there to encourage the horse to jump and the tracks should reflect that. It's a completely different ball game when you get up to the likes of a 1.30m when part of the decision can be to go on a short 5 or a long 4 in a related distance - that's a legitimate part of the challenge. Novices should always be encouraged to jump out of a good forward canter.

Oops, feeling soapbox creeping out of the corner, so will stop now lol!
Click to expand...


I think there's now a rule for express weekday shows where all classes can be ran as 2 phase or single phase and i think opens are allowed to be A4 too.

Also where in the rules does it say there should be 2 fences at 1.15 in a newcomers class? My rule book says the max height in the first round for new is 1.10. I know eventing sj has a couple jumps higher than the rest but i've never heard this for BS classes unless the class is A10 which obviously newcomers can't be. Not necessarily arguing just wondering where this info is from.

Op weekday shows are probably harder for course builders to judge as ime there are sometimes lots of entries and sometimes hardly any and also there tends to be alot of pros out at weekdays with young horses that will want to jump an up to height track in preparation for second rounds later on.

re the warmup, we have a very nice centre down here with a new small indoor warm up and they were ordered by the bsja to allow the outdoor arena for warming up too
 
sassybebe said:
I think there's now a rule for express weekday shows where all classes can be ran as 2 phase or single phase and i think opens are allowed to be A4 too.

Also where in the rules does it say there should be 2 fences at 1.15 in a newcomers class? My rule book says the max height in the first round for new is 1.10. I know eventing sj has a couple jumps higher than the rest but i've never heard this for BS classes unless the class is A10 which obviously newcomers can't be. Not necessarily arguing just wondering where this info is from.

Op weekday shows are probably harder for course builders to judge as ime there are sometimes lots of entries and sometimes hardly any and also there tends to be alot of pros out at weekdays with young horses that will want to jump an up to height track in preparation for second rounds later on.

re the warmup, we have a very nice centre down here with a new small indoor warm up and they were ordered by the bsja to allow the outdoor arena for warming up too
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Hi, the rule for Newcomers and Fox was changed last year to add the 2 extra height fences. Have dug out my rulebook and it's in the table on P177. Incidentally, the mandatory water quoted for the first round is a printing error!

You're right about the "express" midweek shows though - it was trialled last year (for winter only) and they're doing it again this year. All classes can be scheduled as single round (ie 2 phase or single phase) and non-qualifying opens can be A4. In my defence (hopefully), the show being discussed was at weekend :o

As an aside, I think it's quite good if centres can provide an extra (larger) warm up area - especially if taking babies but hadn't heard of Stoneleigh ordering it before - wow. Does that mean they're going to be up the creek if it freezes in winter?
 
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