MASSIVE heart murmur - help needed

RuthnMeg

RuthnMeg

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Just had the vet out to give our loan pony her annual jab. General check over reveals that she has a massive heart murmur, so much so the vet is quite concerned.
The pony is a Sec A mare, 14 years old and we have had her since April on loan for my now nearly six year old daughter. The pony isn't fit, and isn't used much at the moment, but will be doing the mini PC 'things' in the spring summer like she did this year.
Can you kind people please tell me all that you know about heart murmurs - are they graded and is there a chance of the pony dropping dead? The vet heard it loud and clear from both sides and also claims that the pony has a low pulse and slightly 'white' gums.
Her owner has got her insured (which, while she is with us we are paying for). Currently the vet is looking at the records to see if this has been discovered before as owner and us have the same practice. Iam just wondering if this heart condition might be able to be claimed on the insurance if we need to investigate further - OR would you not risk a child riding 'a serious hazard' and send the pony back??
Ideas / thoughts and opinions welcome please.
 
Hi there.

Firstly - dont panic!

Heart murmurs can be both 'innocent' and 'non-innocent' - that is to say some can be of no clinical consequence. Others can be caused by other conditions - ie, anaemia and will disappear once the underlying condition is treated.

Hear murmurs are graded from staged 1-6 - grades 1-2 are normally innocent, 3-4 less likely and 5-6 very serious and not likely to be innocent.

My boy has a grade 3-4 heart murmur at exercise, that is innocent. it is just very loud. The vet ultrasounded his heart at rest ( grade 1 ) then when being exercised ( grade 3-4 ) .

More investigation needs to be done, and i believe if there is no exclusions on the insurance then you should be able to claim. Once you know the grade/seriousness of the murmur you can then make a decision as to wether to send the mare back.

Hope this helps *cup of tea*
 
Investigate. I prob wouldn't worry for a sec A who is doing low level PC stuff, she's not a racehorse or hunter after all! Just be careful to get her fittened up slowly, not rush things and not to go charging round.
 
I basically echo DA, also if the ponies gums are white that could suggest anaemia too so with investigation it may be that this needs to be addressed and the heart murmur will disappear.

My horse has a grade 2 murmur which is only apparent when he's at rest , when he's worked it goes away.
 
Ditto what everyone else has said. You need to look into this further, establish what causes the murmur and how stong it is.

F and I both have innocent heart murmurs that don't affect us at all, Betty has a serious one is on meds and has been fine for 4 years although we know that she will go into heart failure at some point.
 
Depends on the type of heart murmer, I had a pony who had one and liver to late 20's and just recently dropped dead, but lived out her last 10 or so years very quietly. I have to say I'm not convinced I would risk having a child on the pony, unless vet is convinced it is minor :S
 
Lots have murmers at rest which disappear with exercise. How many peeps, I wonder, have horses without murmers at rest, but whose horses (unbeknown to anyone) at exercise?

I'd say find out which, before you 'panic'
 
My gelding failed a vetting on a grade 4 heart murmur. We took a second opinion which confirmed that it was not a 'drop down dead' problem and went ahead and bought him. I have owned him for nearly 6 years and he has no problems. His murmur doesn't get worse with excercise, which is good but he does puff heavily for a bit longer after excertion but always recovers well. I was told to keep him at a level of fitness that was consistent ie, ride/lunge 2 or 3 times a week rather than an all or nothing regime. He always has an excess of energy and he is nearly 12. I bought him as a 6 year old.
 
Totally agree on the full investigation. My rescue Jack Russel has a grade 5 heart murmor. He has been on medication since we got him at 6 months.

The vet says to treat him exactly the same as the other dog when he is well. If he is having a rough path he gets totally rested.

Vet wasn't sure how long he woud live, but still going at 5 which is impressive. In the last couple of years he has started collapsing some times on walks. But most of the time is still like all other dogs.
 
Does she have a jugular pulse (pulse up the neck towards the poll - sorry if you know that!!)? If not its probs nothing to panic about. My old boy had a grade 3-4 heart murmer and the ultrasound showed the hole was so small it would never affect him. I wouldnt panic too much cause afterall she has made it to 14 yrs old!

I had my horse on the vet school livery yard and he was 15, they did loads of heart practicals on him with all the years and me (being the nosey parker i am who loves to learn lol) stayed and listened to them all. Turns out heart murmers (unlike irregular heart beats) in horses are very common and often not fatal or a cause for concern (bit like in humans), with a lot not even ever being found! They dont normally get worse with age (unlike most people belive) once the horse is over 10 years old. Keeping the horse fit is best for the animal. So i would possibly look into having it scanned just for peace of mind as much as ruling out anything more serious (thats why i did it) but poss not go down the insurance route or that will become an exclusion on the insurance. But dont panic and hope it doesnt turn out to be too serious
smile.gif
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I discovered a grade 5 heart murmur in my 4 yr old last year. On further investigation it was found she has a massive hole in her heart. I have continued to back her and still hope to event, we are monitoring her closely and I have a heart rate monitor so I can keep track of resting heart rates and recovery times as these will be the first indicators of a problem rather than her just keeling over.

I have made the decision that I am happy to ride her and to keep going with her training as long as she isn't struggling with the work. Prognosis is a bit hit and miss as vets said she shouldn't have lived more than 12 months with a hole the size of hers!

One thing the vet did say was that usually smaller ponies are affected much less by a condition like this. I think for the type of pony and work you will be doing I would carry on as long as she is regularly checked, it obviously hasn't affected her work up to now
 
As others have said, there are 'sinister' heart murmurs - and insignificant heart murmurs. In a child's pony, you can't take the risk that it MAY be likely to drop dead with no advance warning while child is on board!

The symptoms of anaemia confuse the situation slightly. The anaemia MIGHT be causing the murmur, or a heart defect causingthe murmur is also causing the symptoms of anaemia.

You're not TOO far from the best equine cardiologist in the country - Mark Patteson at Bushy - http://www.bushyequinevets.co.uk/index.php I would get a referral to him sooner rather than later.
 
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