massive over bending/behind bit whilst hacking

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clairefeekerry1

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my boy is 6, v.nice chap schooling nicely and total star, but whilst out hacking, normally half way through starts to massively drop behind the contact so much so think he struggles to see where he's going! nose literally touching his chest. doesnt pull or jog and after a while he walks normally again. really chomps at the bit and i think he's trying to get his tounge over the bit but he has a flash on so cant! he's of a very chewy/nibbly nature so maybe he's messing about with the bit, tried various types of bit and he does it in all. tend to just keep my leg on/flick with the whip, not a massive problem but bit odd when his head suddenly dissapers! doesnt tend to do it in school/jumping? any thoughts?
 
What bits, mouthpieces, nosebands etc have you tried?

Have you had back, mouth, teeth, tack checked?

How experienced are you? Have you got an instructor/knowledgeable friend who can watch you ride to find out exactly what his happening with his head?
 
his back was checked last month and fine same with teeth and tack-only had him 9 weeks so everything checked recently, were currently working at novice level and we've got few bsja winnings recently. snaffle bridle with flash. no other gadjets etc, also has a habit of trying to chew his reins! my inst (ai) says just push him on, doesnt do it anywhere else but halfway through hacking, if i do bit of leg yielding or cantering he concentrates again!
 
Aargh horrible when they do that isn't it? My arab, who I've owned for many years, has done it all his ridden life. I've tried various bits, bitless bridles, treeless saddles, bareback (eek), he's had every check you can think of, teeth back etc etc..lessons with different instructors...and nothing has ever got him out of doing it. It seems to be more when he's excited, which is sadly why I had to give up doing endurance with him, it would take 10/15 miles before he relaxed enough to stretch out. It just wasn't worth the effort in the end, having a headless horse with 2 inches of rein on either side wasn't a pleasurable experience. We just happy hack these days and he rides on the buckle end of the rein...at last!!
 
Do you usually hack on a contact?

Is it possible he's just getting tired of carrying himself properly and ducking behind the bit to give his muscles a rest? Have you tried offering him a stretch for a few minutes before he starts doing it?
 
hmm kareef i was thinking its a excitement thing, he's too laid back to jig and jog so thought this might be his way of showing he's excited! also was told he's a terrible chewer of anything in site so maybe thought its just a baby ish habit he'll grow out of?!
 
normally hack out on loose rein dont expect him to work in a contact out hacking, makes no difference if my reins are loose, in fact this tends to make him over bend even more!
 
What sides? Loose-ring? Eggbutt? Hanging cheek? Fulmer/Full cheek?

What mouthpieces? Single joint? Double joint? Barrel? Peanut? Lozenge? Waterford?

If you've only had him 9 weeks, then there might be underlying issues which are only just coming to light.

What is he like on a loose rein? This might show up some reasons.
 
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makes no difference if my reins are loose, in fact this tends to make him over bend even more!

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I would say that he is uncomfortable in his mouth or head if he is overbending with no contact. There will be something about his bridle, bit or mouth that is making him bring his head back. He might also be trying to get his tongue over the bit - try a drop or grakle noseband. Flashes are useless to stop this happening.
 
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loose ring NS single jointed. 90% of the time he hacks out loose rein lovely and relaxed then has this funny 5 mins when his head disapears!!

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I would change to something other than a single joint bit. The central joint digs into the tongue and prevents them from swallowing etc. Try a bit that has a double joint, or a barrel so that the pressure is taken off his tongue.
 
yes i think he's trying to get his tounge over the bit, or at least over playing it. may try different nosenand in that case. my NS bit is supposed to help with tounge evasions, maybe its not working-although he is the same in a diff bit!
 
Forgive the stupid question - is it DEFINATELY fitted the right way round? The amount of single jointed bits that I have seen fitted in the "nut-cracker" way
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he he, after lots of debate yes it is!!!
it did cross my mind! but had it triple/quad checked by everyone i know who is more with it than me!!!!
its one of those NS vertibrends (sp?) bit
 
I wish, y'know, I was a better rider, because I'm sure there's a way of using one's seat to get a horse out of doing what my and Clairefeekerry's horse's do. I do feel it's nothing to do with bits,,,having tried bitless and mine still does the same thing when he's wound up...I feel it's something that can be remedied by rider position, something to do with the rider's pelvis and seat bones, would that be right? I've sometimes felt that I'm somehow responsible for blocking my horse's energy. The power, or energy, of the horse's movement should come from the hind end, the engine if you like, and it's up to the rider to school the horse to to channel and balance that energy. With my own horse, I've tried legs on, legs off, tweaking the reins, leaving them loose....but I'm sure if I looked to classical riding tuition there might be a solution.

I'm probably talking a load of poo now, it's Sunday night, I've a had a long day a couple of glasses of wine, but what I'm trying to say is I don't think the answer lies in the which bit to use, it's in the rider. Apologies for waffling!!!
 
If he mouths the bit a lot and seems to be attempting to get his tongue over, maybe a straight bar with a drop noseband?? Should encourage him to stop fiddling so much, as there is less to fiddle with! May also encourage him to take the bit a little more
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Has worked for a fair few horses I've known anyway!
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If he only does it out hacking, while a bit disconcerting, is it really an issue? Perhaps you could just accept that all horses have their quirks and this is his and just ride him forward throught it.

If it bothers you to much...
Have you tried no noseband/ or a very loose cavesson?

Or could you try pulling his head in more (even if it can't come in more, just apply pressure to the bit)? On the principal that horses are ornery beasts and if you ask them to do one thing they are liable to do the opposite...I know it works with some horses that stick their heads up, you just keep lifting with the reins till they want to put their head down.

Or how about asking him to do something that is hard with his head in his chest, not sure what, but maybe something like a turn on the haunches/forehand, half pass/leg yeild or several transitions in the space of a few meters.
OR if you dont think he will fall over aim him at a small log/ ditch to jump.
 
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