Massive problems with new sand school! Help!

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myhorsefred

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Um, we are putting in an arena at the moment. Base of school is great, drainage is great as we have lots of stone, also extra drains put in and a gulley all the way around the edge of the school to take water away. So, all in all the base is as good as it could be.

The sand is the correct grade of sand for equestrian use as well.

However, the sand was delivered on Friday. 4 inches of it for a 40x20 school. (going to have 2ins of flexiride on top of sand - its arriving this Friday). We levelled the sand on Saturday and because we knew the rain was coming, we didn't compact it with the roller as we had been advised it was best to flood the new sand to compact it. We waited for the rain, and it came! Lots and lots of rain.

Yesterday, Sunday, I walked into the school and it is mush! Like soup. Does not hold your weight at all and your foot goes right through the sand until your foot hits the base!

We know it is the correct sand and we know that the base of the school is ok. Did we make a mistake by not compacting the sand with the roller first?

Will it come right? What do I do now?

Sorry for long post with lots of questions, but I'm stuck. My contractor (lovely chap) wants to take the sand off and try another sand (at his own cost, bless him). We have two quarries very close to each other and it is basically the same sand anyway. Don't want him to waste his money as I worry whether another sand will do exactly the same thing. I think we should have compacted it with the roller first. What do you guys think? thank you
 
Have you got a membrane down? If so is it the correct one that allows water through?
You could get the sand analysed(sp) to see if it is single sized and round which would not compact.
If it is like mush then that would indicate to me that it is not draining.
Is the hardcore clean hardcore as opposed to chalk as chalk once compacted will blind off and not allow water through?
 
Hi Mrs W, yes we have a membrane. It is Terran 700, and we wondered it this held water, so we got a spare bit of it and poured a cup of water through it, and it fell straight through. It didn't hold the water at all, so the membrane is ok.

I think I may well get the sand analysed, just to be sure.

The hardcore is clean, and not chalkey.

I just wonder if I should have compacted it with the roller first, before the rain soaked it.
 
It shouldnt make much difference at all, good correct sand will compact when wet.
I had all sorts of problems with a school I put down with what was suppsoed to be the equestrian grade silica sand. It would always ride deep and never compacted, in effect it was like riding on round marbles as it was all single sized and round instead or different sized and angular.
I had mine analysed(sp) - I am sure it was with these people who were very helpful.
http://www.siteanalyticalservices.co.uk/
Seems very bizarre that it is holding water though?
Was it clean hardcore?
 
Is it the right type of sand? If its not equestrian grade sand you could be in for a heap of bother
crazy.gif
Was on a yard with the wrong sand in the school and it was a nightmare, always far too deep, unlevel and it flooded and froze!!
 
Yes, it was clean hardcore.

Yesterday morning, we scraped away a section of sand with our hands to leave the bare membrane showing. We then poured half a bucket of water onto the base to see how quickly the water would drain through the hardcore and it drained perfectly. (we also thought, like you, that perhaps the base wasn't draining properly.)

It is the sand that's holding the water.

We even scooped a few handfuls of sand and placed it inside the spare bit of membrane (we made a sort of bag out of the membrane) and poured a cup of water in, and the sand held on to every bit of water. Slow, slow drops of water oozed out.

We also poured water onto just the membrane, and this let water straight through, just to check the membrane wasn't holding onto the water.

Got to be the sand? But the odd thing is, other people have used this grade of sand and its been ok. Don't know if they rolled it though. aargh!
 
That is weird isnt it?
We ended up dragging all our sand off and got our money back and I put Trackright down which I have been happy with ever since.
Apart from analysing the sand I dont know what else to suggest.
Good luck with it, let me know how you get on I am intrigued to know.
smile.gif
 
we had a similar scare when we first put ours down. after the first rain we had the exact same effect - the sand went to mush. my foot just sank through virtually to the membrane. I've got a feeling this was mostly around the edges (ie. where the compacter couldn't quite reach) and a patch where the digger did not compact it very much. we did similar tests on bits of membrane and at first, on brand new bits, the membrane held the water. after a while, once it had absorbed soem, it sort of 'got going' and the water started to trickle through. this improved until it was going straight through. it seemed as if the membrane needed to get thoroughly soaked before it got going.
so, after out initial serious panic, the membrane seemed to get the idea and then worked fine. so maybe the membrane with the sand on top hasn;t 'got going' enough yet? and as it has far more sand on than your test pieces maybe it needs more time/rainfall.
or maybe it is because it wasn't compacted - so don't give up on the sand straight away!
we were seriously worried but all fine now. ours appeared to just need time to develop the foreshore effect rather than the quicksand effect.
don't know how helpful this is, but i remember how we felt at the time and hope this may reassure you and offer a possible explanation/solution???
Perce
 
Hi Martlin - it was going to be nearly £9,000 for a full surface of flexiride! I told them I needed a topping for sand and they recommended 2ins of flexiride. So, you can use it as a full surface or as a topping.

Hi Perce, yes it is very worrying. I'm hoping, like you say, that it just needs a bit of time to bed in. Yes, that's exactly it - I have the quicksand effect rather than the foreshore effect! Thanks, you have reassured me.
 
Yes, I know you can use it as a topping, I was just wondering why you wanted to bother with the sand - I take it due to cos mainly?
I'm not criticizing, just conducting my research you see:))) I'm planning Flexiride as an all in one surface...

Edited cause I can't spell
blush.gif
 
Yes, it was down to cost. I wish I hadn't bothered with the sand actually, seeing as we are having teething troubles with it, but it was too much £ for a whole surface. They say you can use as a topping though, so hopefully it will be ok.
 
Am I over suspicious or does the fact that the contractor is happy to take the sand off and replace makes me wonder whether he has some doubts? If he isn't a dedicated menage contractor then sometimes it is a bit difficult for them to understand the importance of having the right sand!!

So I think you are on the right lines, get it analysed and then see whether it is possible to balance out or needs changing.

Have you actually paid for the flexiride? It may be that another produce that you incorporate into the sand would be better than one that sits on top if you are having issues.

What colour is the sand? I think I am right in saying that silica tends to be quite light, where as 'building' sand is much richer - or thats the way it is around here.

But don't worry, if you have the underlying surface right you will find a good solution. Its when the drainage/limestone has been skimped on that really causes the longterm problems.
 
Thanks Canteron, yes it is quite light in colour and is very fine. Not coarse like building sand or mucky like cubicle sand.

Yes, have paid for the flexiride already.

I agree, at least I know the base and drains are good underneath. Just need the sand to settle now.

ta
 
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