Master saddlers - why bother?

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Smogul

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I have just had a master saddler spend all of 10 minutes with a pony before telling me that we would have to order the one she needed as they didn't have it in stock. No template was taken, none of the possible fits were girthed up and she didn't watch the pony moving. Saddles were chucked on and off with no allowance for a newly backed young pony on a windy day. Great service.

This is not the first time I have been less than impressed with a master saddler.

One refused to come out to a new horse as he "sounds an awkward shape and I won't have anything that fits." We knew he was an odd shape which is why we wanted a proper fitting!!!! A trawl round our local helpful tack shop did unearth a suitable saddle fortunately.
Another tried a hard sell on a saddle which fitted the horse but the usual rider found so uncomfortable that it affected his position.
In frustration, we have been down the treeless option, only to have one treeless rep try to sell us a saddle that the horse clearly didn't like. Her advice - "he'll have to get used to it. It is like being ridden bareback". As the teenage owner regularly rode the horse bareback which the horse was quite happy with, we didn't buy that saddle either.

Sensible advice to have your saddle checked regularly but who by?
 
Agh don't talk to me about saddles!

I feel your pain, my horse isn't even an awkward shape and I feel your pain!

I've just been told by an osteo that my gorgeous boy is now asymmetric down to a badly fitting saddle.. A saddle that I was told repeatdly fitted by a master saddler! My poor boy was carrying a lot of tension in his left shoulder and was really sore poor love. I've been jumping 3ft3 courses like that! To top it off I also have a bad back on the left side by fruitlessly trying to keep the saddle straight.

I got another saddler out and she pulled loads of cheap synthetic flocking out of my expensive wool flocked saddle where the so called master saddler had been too cheap to flock with the same stuff! Where the different materials had been unable to blend together my saddle that was too narrow was also full of lumps!

The 2nd saddler who came then didn't have anything that fitted.

3rd saddler coming tommorrow, fingers crossed this is 3rd time lucky!!

I won't be surprised if it isn't though, it took me 5 saddlers and 5 different saddles before I found one that fitted my old horse.

I hate saddlers, such a pain!
 
Whereabouts are you - people can then makes suggestions. In my experience some are fantastic, some are total crap, and dangerously so. 10 minutes is no where near long enough to make any assessment, and how can they be sure it will fit with out a template being taken. If they are ordering new then they should take a template for the manufacture to make it to template. It is no more expensive for them to take one off the shelf than to make to template. Without a template she is simply taking a standard one which may or may not fit.

hav you been charged a deposit for the saddle? will she keep it in stock if it doesn;t fit ?
 
Not the best service, it is frustrating :(

We're lucky to have a brilliant master saddle locally, always takes his time, explains his thoughts and never leaves you feeling like you're being pushed to buy. He's very popular as a result.

Whereabouts are you in the country? Perhaps someone will be able to help with another recommendation :)
 
I empathise entirely - I have a new horse as of three weeks (4 yr old cob who is 16.3hh and rising by the minute!!). Haven't been able to ride for two of these three weeks as no saddles seem to fit him. Waiting for a saddler to come out end of the month to hopefully fit my favourite saddle which I used on my last horse - and which took me 8 purchased saddles to find (3 of which were brand new, and a further two were allegedly "made to fit both me and the horse". It cost me a fortune last time and can't afford to go down the route of new saddles again so if this doesnt work, I am well and truly stuck! My long hip to knee length causes problems as much as the barrel shape of the giant cob!!
 
Are you sure that the master saddlers you are talking about are Registered Qualified Saddle Fitters? This is someone who has been trained and qualified and holds the Society of Master Saddlers City & Guilds Qualification.

A Master Saddler registered with the Society of Master Saddlers (SMS) is a highly skilled saddlemaker, but may not be trained as a saddle fitter. Someone calling themselves a master saddler but who is not a member of the SMS may or may not be a good saddler /saddle fitter.

If you check out the SMS website you can check that your so called master saddlers are actually Registered Qualified SMS Saddle Fitters, and Registered SMS Master Saddlers. www.mastersaddlers.co.uk If they are then you can always make a complaint.

My saddle fitter is a highly skilled SMS Master Saddler and a Registered Qualified Saddle Fitter, and has done an excellent job fitting my funny shaped horse and pony.
 
They're the kind of experiences that would put me off too.

The lady I now use isn't a Master Saddler herself but trained under one but her genuine motivation is avoiding the issues created by badly fitting saddles which she has encoutered in the past. She was a chief instructor at a BHS exam centre.

When she came to look at my new boy she spent a good ten minutes at least just looking at him and feeling his back and thinking about how he might fill out. She then bought out a saddle which she believed would be a good fit, put it on carefully, spent another ten minutes looking and feeling how it sat when girthed up. Then I rode in walk trot and canter for about 15-20 minutes while she watched from all angles. When she took it off she whipped it up and off cleanly so she could then check how it had squished the hairs on his back. Everything she said and did made perfect sense to me and she explained everything that she was doing. She then sold me the saddle and came back 6 weeks later for free to do the same thing again to check that we were both still happy.

That's the kind of service I would expect. I believe that word of mouth is by far a better way to find someone than just picking a name off a list of "Master Saddlers". (I found my saddler by word of mouth).
 
Saxon_Jasmine said:
Are you sure that the master saddlers you are talking about are Registered Qualified Saddle Fitters? This is someone who has been trained and qualified and holds the Society of Master Saddlers City & Guilds Qualification.

A Master Saddler registered with the Society of Master Saddlers (SMS) is a highly skilled saddlemaker, but may not be trained as a saddle fitter. Someone calling themselves a master saddler but who is not a member of the SMS may or may not be a good saddler /saddle fitter.

If you check out the SMS website you can check that your so called master saddlers are actually Registered Qualified SMS Saddle Fitters, and Registered SMS Master Saddlers. www.mastersaddlers.co.uk If they are then you can always make a complaint.

My saddle fitter is a highly skilled SMS Master Saddler and a Registered Qualified Saddle Fitter, and has done an excellent job fitting my funny shaped horse and pony.
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I agree totally with this.

I used to have someone that called himself a Master Saddler, I learnt the hard way and was told what is written above. There are quite alot out there that aren't properly qualified.

I know have a Registered Master Saddler and what a difference.
 
Getting a good saddler is a nightmare. Thankfully mine was recommended by my old saddler when I relocated and shes great. One thing I have noticed though (in all that I have used over 20 years) when they come out, take the template etc fit the saddle or whatever, they never come back a second time to check any alterations on the saddle do actually fit. A friend had this problem but really kicked up and made the saddler come back out to re-fit the saddle after alterations had been made from the template (they dont alter on site). Just as well she did, the saddle didnt fit and had to be altered on site for a 2nd time. As her top horse is sponsored they get A1 treatment and this is what she is used to, so when a regular saddler came out she couldnt believe they just altered based on a template and didnt re-check the fit. I learned a lesson that day and will in future insist they come back out to re-fit
 
Unfortunately just because someone is a master saddler / qualified saddle fitter doesn't mean they're to be trusted or know what they're talking about. There isn't one saddler in Cornwall I would trust now after some of the things I've experienced. I reported one to the SMS, for the shocking job he did on my saddle. Not one of them ever really wanted to see the horse ridden, or did a thorough job, it was just a case of here's your saddle, looks like it'll do, now ******* off. Thankfully I've now found an amazing saddler from out of the county who is amazing, I won't be changing ever again. Unfortunately it's a case of trial and error, try and get some reccomendations from people, the bad ones and good ones will crop up and you can sort one from the other!!
 
cornwallexracers said:
Unfortunately just because someone is a master saddler / qualified saddle fitter doesn't mean they're to be trusted or know what they're talking about. There isn't one saddler in Cornwall I would trust now after some of the things I've experienced. I reported one to the SMS, for the shocking job he did on my saddle. Not one of them ever really wanted to see the horse ridden, or did a thorough job, it was just a case of here's your saddle, looks like it'll do, now ******* off. Thankfully I've now found an amazing saddler from out of the county who is amazing, I won't be changing ever again. Unfortunately it's a case of trial and error, try and get some reccomendations from people, the bad ones and good ones will crop up and you can sort one from the other!!
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Hi I am looking for a saddle fitter in Cornwall. Can you recommend who to avoid and use please? As a first time pony owner, what price am I looking at for a fitter to fit a second hand saddle??
 
It makes me quite annoyed when I see everyone saying "only use a qualified saddle fitter" as it seems there are just as many problems with using one...though only Master Saddlers a few years ago were trained to fit, since the QSF qualification came in saddlers are, as far as I know, no longer trained to fit horses. I'd want someone who is out fitting day in day out, and would go on recommendation much more than qualification (I'm not qualified by the SMS).
 
The master saddlers web site has them all listed and what they are qualified for (some only to make saddles NOT fit them!)

I have the opposite problem, instructor is sure my boy has a sore back from his saddle - recommended fully qualified saddler says saddle is good and won't sell me anything else ! Physio coming next to see which of them is right !!
 
Saddle fitting is not the hardest skill in the world to learn, a lot of it is actually simple observation and common horse knowledge..........oh, right; just remembered - there isn't much of that around any more, and it's not so common.

I have fitted my own saddles for 30 years, never had a sore or complaining horse. The only time one of ours became sore was after a friend persuaded me to join her in bringing in a "Master" saddler and he fiddled around with an old saddle that had been used on one of our display horses for years. Horse was angry almost immediately, Mr Master Saddler was instructed to remove the flocking and we resumed our "unfitted" progress happily. Might I suggest that more people learned how to look at their own saddles and familiarise themselves with how saddles are supposed to sit. Not rocket science (but often a bit of a rip off and unnecessary at best, actively harmful at worst).
 
I don't need a master saddler to fit a saddle I need him to make me one .
A qualified saddle fitter who fits saddles watches people ride in them all day every day is a much better choice for me.
This area of horses is I think the hardest to get right there's a lot of bad quality people out there .
I will only use someone who sells a wide range of products new and second hand I won't have a saddler attached to one company on the yard .
I won't use anyone who does not want to see you ride .
You have to educate yourself in this area like farriers if you leave it to trust it will go wrong .
 
I too fall into the category of only stocking one brand, but if that brand is known to be good for your shape of horse, and the fitter is recommended, you'd still not have them on the yard? I often get horses and ponies that I don't find hard to fit who have been the route you're talking and been unable to find anything, and often wasted time and money to boot.

I totally agree about knowing the basics of good saddle fit, however saddle fitters have different "paradigms" so many disagree on even some of the basics. I think you need to feel that your fitter is explaining things well, that you have been shown some ways of figuring if your horse has changed shape and you have saddle fit issues creeping up (so that you know when you may need an adjustment), then you are well placed.
 
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I will never deal with anyone who sells one type of saddle .
I can't see the point but I am the ideal situation with an experianced fitter selling several brands new across a lot of price points a big used business selling many lovely quality saddles from cilents who needs and or horses have been changed .
From the narrow TB type to big wide cobs she has a type to suit she rides as well which really helps and has a great understanding of rider postion and the saddle .
 
I use a master saddler. He's doesn't mince his words, but has fitted our saddles for over 12 years with no issues.
 
You clearly have a very good fitter and it works for you. Most of my customers have used one or more recommended general fitter who stocks several brands but have ended up with a poorly fitting, or no, saddle. I also pride myself on knowing the trees in our saddle inside out, fitting many brands does mean that you can't possibly be totally au fait with the finer details of all aspects of the tree fit. Pros and cons and ultimately recommendation counts for more than arbitrary rules.
 
sbloom said:
You clearly have a very good fitter and it works for you. Most of my customers have used one or more recommended general fitter who stocks several brands but have ended up with a poorly fitting, or no, saddle. I also pride myself on knowing the trees in our saddle inside out, fitting many brands does mean that you can't possibly be totally au fait with the finer details of all aspects of the tree fit. Pros and cons and ultimately recommendation counts for more than arbitrary rules.
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I think my fitter has a very good understanding of the saddles she fits and sells she also has no interest in selling one particular type of saddle .
And as Cortez said it's actually not rocket science .
When I first met her having been told by a single brand fitter that I needed a new saddle Something told me I was being spun a sales line and I said I would think about it , think about it I did and got my current fitter in on a friends recommendation she said I could sell you a new saddle but this one can be reflocked to fit we have never looked back her honesty on that day has got her all my trade since that's a least twenty new saddles she has also sold a lot of my saddles when I trade them on.
She also reflocks on site and then you try it again at once that's important to me .
 
I love my saddle fitter. They came highly recommended and is a fully qualified saddle fitter with SMS. I started using them before they became a master saddler which is not an easy accolade to gain. I agree that I would rather use someone who fits day in day out who has common sense and has been doing the job for a while than some of theses saddle fitters who have completed the new fitting course which can be completed in less than a week! My saddle fitter has turned down a well known saddle manufacture as they have yet to see one of these saddles fit anything well. They have accounts with a variety of manufacturers but also admit when they can't find anything to fit and are happy to out source to other fitters that can supply the goods. I think like a lot of horsey professions there will always be the bad eggs who stereotype that trade that is the risk of any unprotected professions. I also like to see a professional who is activly looking to improve there knowledge through CPD and is happy to gain knowledge from other professionals.
 
Its taken me 2 years and 5 saddle fitters before I found someone I truly trust!

I don't think she is a master saddler, but she has been in my boat, with a difficult to fit young horse, she decided to learn how to fit saddles to do her own and has taken it on from there! She has only been qualified recently but I think this is a benefit and she taught me so much! reasons why she was doing certain things and my horse was so much more happy to move forward!

I had people out telling me I need to make my saddle narrorer because it was too low on the withers. Turns out it was restricting his shoulders and was making his movement shorter. I was also girthing up on 1 and 3, which I have always done but on my saddle the 1 strap is further forward than normal, so meant that I was ankering the saddle down more, which was not helping his shoulders either! so I went from being told he should be in a narrow/medium gullet to being in a wide gullet (which i what i knew he needed) and then he just needed risers to lift up the front, which in turn made it sit better at the back!
 
Goldenstar said:
I
She also reflocks on site and then you try it again at once that's important to me .
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Agreed that that is important, I have never understood sending a saddle away for reflocking if you can have it done onsite. I even adjust tree width onsite in most cases. What I will say is that this means leaving enough time for adjustments, even when none are required, so takes up more time and means fewer appointments per day - ultimately can cost a little more, but it's worth it.
 
I think good saddlers are like Hens teeth, cherish the good ones out there :) as its so hard to find someone you trust and almost everyone has a story to tell, good or bad.
I used a Master Saddler and QSF years ago who was great, fit both my difficult to fit horse and me and that saddle fit him like a glove with regular flocking from 5yrs til his death. My story with my new boy wasnt as good, sadly I couldnt afford the high end saddles the original saddler sold so I used another Master Saddler and within a few weeks we hit soundness problems, tbf they came back, were lovely but the solutions like it needs to be narrower to clear the withers etc made me twitchy and tbh I felt I knew more than them??
So the horse was off work for weeks with a bad back and I had no saddle. Tried another couple of saddle fitters, not Master Saddlers but I wasnt happy with the fits of the one or two saddles they brought and they didnt even template when I said Im happy to have a new made to measure.
I will prob get shot down for this but running out of ideas I started trying my own, probably drove hundreds of miles back and forth and my house looked like a saddle shop lol but I finally have one and my horse is happy and touch wood we havent had a problem since. I have since had it checked by a Master Saddler who fits daily (although I dont think they are a QSF) and has done for years but sadly didnt have anything in when I was looking and they are happy with the fit. They are great, honest, dont rip people off and can flock etc on site. So after waffling on for ages :) what I really wanted to say is IMO yes it would be great to have a QSF and Master Saddler in one but after my experiences the Qualified bit hasnt helped me at all, it was experience that did.
 
Louby said:
I think good saddlers are like Hens teeth, cherish the good ones out there :) as its so hard to find someone you trust and almost everyone has a story to tell, good or bad.
I used a Master Saddler and QSF years ago who was great, fit both my difficult to fit horse and me and that saddle fit him like a glove with regular flocking from 5yrs til his death. My story with my new boy wasnt as good, sadly I couldnt afford the high end saddles the original saddler sold so I used another Master Saddler and within a few weeks we hit soundness problems, tbf they came back, were lovely but the solutions like it needs to be narrower to clear the withers etc made me twitchy and tbh I felt I knew more than them??
So the horse was off work for weeks with a bad back and I had no saddle. Tried another couple of saddle fitters, not Master Saddlers but I wasnt happy with the fits of the one or two saddles they brought and they didnt even template when I said Im happy to have a new made to measure.
I will prob get shot down for this but running out of ideas I started trying my own, probably drove hundreds of miles back and forth and my house looked like a saddle shop lol but I finally have one and my horse is happy and touch wood we havent had a problem since. I have since had it checked by a Master Saddler who fits daily (although I dont think they are a QSF) and has done for years but sadly didnt have anything in when I was looking and they are happy with the fit. They are great, honest, dont rip people off and can flock etc on site. So after waffling on for ages :) what I really wanted to say is IMO yes it would be great to have a QSF and Master Saddler in one but after my experiences the Qualified bit hasnt helped me at all, it was experience that did.
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So in effect you are saying you ended up fitting the saddle that works best yourself?
 
Cortez said:
So in effect you are saying you ended up fitting the saddle that works best yourself?
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Yes Cortez, Im obviously not a saddler but I think I have a pretty good idea, horse is happy, physio is happy and Im happy lol. I actually really enjoyed searching high and low for what I needed. Its such a shame though as years ago there seemed to be lots of saddle fitters that carried 2nd hand saddles but these seemed to have disappeared now. I can understand why, but theres a definate gap in the market for a 'good' saddle fitter that can fit quality 2nd hand saddles.
 
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