Me and my parents have decided to dip our toes into the idea of a full loan , couple of questions for more knowledgable people:)

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Woodendoor12

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Hi there ! You may of seen my last post and after speaking to my parents we have decided to not overly seriously look into a full loan ,I have a few questions!

From what I understand when doing a full loan you’re paying for pretty much everything apart from the upfront cost
of the horse , can someone verify this ?

I’ve spoken to a family friend (who is also horsey ) who knows someone who has just started a full loan and is currently paying about £350 a month and she said pays around the same amount a month for her own horse (give or take a bit ) would you say that’s the average you should be paying a month for a full loan ?

I was debating on whether to wait for a loan to come up at my riding school but after speaking to the family friend I’ve realised that it would be , in theory, cheaper to full loan than to loan via the riding school, what do you think is the better option , for context £90-100 a week for 3 hacks and one lesson (or time in the outdoor school)

Thanks for your time , enjoy your day!
 
I haven't seen your previous post, but yes, a full loan equates to the same costs as keeping your own horse, except that you don't own it. So livery, bedding, forage & feed, farrier, vet, dentist, saddler, physio, chiro - all of that will be for you to pay. Usually/often a loan horse will come subject to a contract that outlines everything you can and cannot do with it.

The cost of livery will depend on how much livery costs in your area, it varies a lot depending on where you are and what livery you are looking for. Bear in mind it is going to probably be an expensive winter with forage in short supply and bedding going up.
 
People don't tend to pay for a loan pony unless it is a top class animal on lease. The cost for the loan pony is the cost of its keep, livery, shoeing etc. which will depend on where you are keeping the pony.
You may be able to find a share where the owner is still responsible for the pony but you pay the owner to be allowed to ride and care for it for a certain number of days per week. This is a good way to begin.
 
Surbie said:
I haven't seen your previous post, but yes, a full loan equates to the same costs as keeping your own horse, except that you don't own it. So livery, bedding, forage & feed, farrier, vet, dentist, saddler, physio, chiro - all of that will be for you to pay. Usually/often a loan horse will come subject to a contract that outlines everything you can and cannot do with it.

The cost of livery will depend on how much livery costs in your area, it varies a lot depending on where you are and what livery you are looking for. Bear in mind it is going to probably be an expensive winter with forage in short supply and bedding going up.
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Ok that’s something to think about thank you !
 
Gloi said:
People don't tend to pay for a loan pony unless it is a top class animal on lease. The cost for the loan pony is the cost of its keep, livery, shoeing etc. which will depend on where you are keeping the pony.
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I assume that’s what family friends friend is doing ? From what she was saying that’s how it sounded
 
From your post it sounds as though you haven't had your own horse or a share or loan before. Apologies if this isn't the case. Agree with others, generally a loan will mean that you take on all the cost of the horse including livery + incidental costs which must be budgeted for and you need to be responsible about ensuring that the horse gets all they need. The 350 per month may be for livery but you should expect the extras to come to more than this. It depends of course on where you are, and if you plan on doing a lot of the work yourself or having the horse on full livery which is more expensive. Some owners may stipulate that a horse has to be kept at the same yard, and some may allow them to move, generally they will want to check out the yard the horse is going to so you will usually need to have this organised in advance.

You may find, if you are inexperienced in horse care, that some owners are unwilling to allow you to take and care for their horse. Frankly I would be unless they were moving to a situation with a lot of help or a reputable yard on full livery. And depending on the horse they would expect your riding to be of a sufficient standard for the horse. Apologies again if you are an experienced rider/carer and all of this will be plain sailing, but better to be prepared for what an owner will expect beyond your willingness to pay the bills.

A share may be a good option for you, where you take on a proportion of the horse's bills in return for riding on set days and possibly also doing some jobs.

Also be aware when you go to look for a share or loan horse - make sure the horse is safe enough, and the right type for you. See it ridden first, and be honest about your abilities and knowledge.
 
The cost and individual arrangements will depend a lot on what the owner of the horse has stipulated. Some owners will allow a loaner to keep the horse at a yard of their choosing, use whatever professionals they want, feed the horse what they want etc. Other owners will be far more prescriptive - they might stipulate that the loaner keeps the horse on the same yard, feeds a particular type of feed, uses a particular instructor even.

Best thing to do is to do a bit of a search on what horses are being offered for loan and if there is something that seems suitable for you, get in touch to understand the costs.

£350 a month would probably be about right if the horse you are loaning is on DIY livery (so you do all the mucking out and other day to day care). If the horse is on some kind of part livery package then the cost will be a bit higher. Livery charges can vary quite a bit in different yards and different areas of the country though.
 
Abacus said:
From your post it sounds as though you haven't had your own horse or a share or loan before. Apologies if this isn't the case. Agree with others, generally a loan will mean that you take on all the cost of the horse including livery + incidental costs which must be budgeted for and you need to be responsible about ensuring that the horse gets all they need. The 350 per month may be for livery but you should expect the extras to come to more than this. It depends of course on where you are, and if you plan on doing a lot of the work yourself or having the horse on full livery which is more expensive. Some owners may stipulate that a horse has to be kept at the same yard, and some may allow them to move, generally they will want to check out the yard the horse is going to so you will usually need to have this organised in advance.

You may find, if you are inexperienced in horse care, that some owners are unwilling to allow you to take and care for their horse. Frankly I would be unless they were moving to a situation with a lot of help or a reputable yard on full livery. And depending on the horse they would expect your riding to be of a sufficient standard for the horse. Apologies again if you are an experienced rider/carer and all of this will be plain sailing, but better to be prepared for what an owner will expect beyond your willingness to pay the bills.

A share may be a good option for you, where you take on a proportion of the horse's bills in return for riding on set days and possibly also doing some jobs.

Also be aware when you go to look for a share or loan horse - make sure the horse is safe enough, and the right type for you. See it ridden first, and be honest about your abilities and knowledge.
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Yes this will be my first loan, I’ve been riding for the last five years and am starting a work based diploma at my current stables (hopefully switching to an apprenticeship in February) and at least in my opinion (also it seems from yard managers perspective) am competent In the care side of things although there are things that I’ll need to learn that everyone learns through the experience of loaning or owning.

I wouldn’t dream of over horsing myself so would take family friend or if possible yard manager to any viewings . My parents aren’t horsey so that would definitely need to happen.
 
DabDab said:
The cost and individual arrangements will depend a lot on what the owner of the horse has stipulated. Some owners will allow a loaner to keep the horse at a yard of their choosing, use whatever professionals they want, feed the horse what they want etc. Other owners will be far more prescriptive - they might stipulate that the loaner keeps the horse on the same yard, feeds a particular type of feed, uses a particular instructor even.

Best thing to do is to do a bit of a search on what horses are being offered for loan and if there is something that seems suitable for you, get in touch to understand the costs.

£350 a month would probably be about right if the horse you are loaning is on DIY livery (so you do all the mucking out and other day to day care). If the horse is on some kind of part livery package then the cost will be a bit higher. Livery charges can vary quite a bit in different yards and different areas of the country though.
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Ok amazing thank you, probably the most helpful response I’ve had yet , horse would hopefully be kept on livary at my current yard , provided I can pursade yard owner to let me keep said horse there not on working livary as I know most owners wouldn’t want there horse being used in a riding school. I’m there most days of the week anyway that shouldn’t be an issue due to my college course
 
Share first.

It gives you experience with a safety net in place, and the confidence to then go it alone. It's cheaper and you don't have to pay vet's fees or worry about vet insurance. You don't have to worry whether the tack fits or which rug to put on etc - there is someone who knows what they are doing who you can ask. Even just being on a yard regularly caring for your share will expose you to other horses and thus injuries, illnesses etc that horses can get will become something you know more about. Also because full loan ponies/horses rarely come up without there being some reason why they could not be leased or sold. It might be advanced age - so you need to have enough knowledge to identify lameness or EMS signs. It might be a quirk of some kind, which having had a share you might be better able to deal with. I have two out on loan. One has sweet itch and is traffic shy. The other likes to tank off to the gate on occasion and has EMS so needs careful management. A lady local to us looked and looked all spring and summer for a full loan. She ended up finally with a pony who was apparently lovely but needed to come back into work. As soon as the pony did come back into work it went lame and they have been stuck with a lame horse taking up their space on the yard since because the owner isn't in a position to take the pony back and they need it to come sound (or be pts) before it can realistically go anywhere. Another lady I know is currently looking. The stories of the ponies/horses she has been to see have been entertaining but none have been suitable - massively underweight, lame, reared under saddle, not safe on the ground etc. The one that was perfect had a queue a mile long of people wanting to try and convince the owner to let them loan him.
 
I had a mare on full loan. I had to pay for insurance and was responsible for all her costs while she was with me,livery, farrier,vet, routine vaccination. Also transport too and from her owner on collection and when she was returned. I didn't pay the owner any fee.
 
Go with the riding school loan to start with. You will get a lot out of it, have friends to have fun with and lots of support. Then you can think about a share of full loan in 6months time
 
Amymay Again said:
Share first. It's a great introduction to ownership. You'd have the owners support and it will help you understand the costs both financially and time related.
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I agree, sharing can work well. I shared for a year or so before buying and had a year of hacking about on a nice pony, which was exactly what I wanted.

ETA That said, when looking for a share you will rapidly realise (if you haven't already) that the horse world is full of crazy people, deluded people, and liars. But that's no different to looking for a full loan. So same as if you're buying, I would take an experienced friend along with you to take a look at whatever's on offer and spot any pitfalls that you might miss!
 
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It’s not a cheaper option than riding school lessons.

In addition to whatever the livery charge is, you also have hay/feed/bedding (if it’s not included), vets bills and insurance, shoeing/trims, tack/rugs/equipment/sundries - plus any additional charges to cover if you can’t be there twice a day.

On top of that you will still need to keep having lessons.

General horse keep costs are skyrocketing- in all honesty I think you should budget a bare minimum of £600 per month if you are doing the bulk of the work yourself, plus have enough set aside for unforeseen expenses
 
I think the loan through the riding school sounds worth it for the included lesson, you will know the horse, you won't be bringing a new horse to a new place and have to deal with them settling in while you're also finding your feet, and people on hand who all know the horses current management. I don't think you'd get much change back from £400 with livery, feed, shoes, saddle check, insurance and whatever extras you'd need. Plus the hassle of finding a suitable horse!

If nothing else its a lower commitment way to get used to paying a small mortgage every month 😂 much easier to stop the RS loan than sort out handing a horse back!
 
Good quality loans for horses that are suitable for first time owners are very few and far between. You might get lucky and find the needle in the haystack - but that owner will have their choice of 100's of potential loaners and may well not choose someone who hasn't owned before.

You can find our what the costs of livery are by asking at your current yard, what they would charge.
Can your parents take you there every day 365 days a year ? including Christmas morning before the big day starts? If not they you will need to ask about the cost of assistance for days you can't make it. DIY is one cost but add in help for holidays, the odd weekend day or brining in every day if you can't get to the yard before dark (3pm here for several weeks!) and it really starts to add up. With some contingency, and insurance and a lesson now and again to keep you improving etc. I think closer to £450-500 would be sensible unless you're in a cheap area of the country.

For comparison a share horse is yours completely for 2 or 3 days a week, to ride as you wish (within common sense reason of course) and those typically cost £50-80 a week. It's a bargain for the rider as usually the owner wants exercise for the horse not purely about money. There are a lot more share horses available, it's much more common.
They are also more commonly horses that are suitable for new owners, so one that is owned by a child but the child doesn't want to ride EVERY day, or a horse that is stepping back from hard work but needs ticking over a bit or someone who struggles to fit riding in during dark nights - it's a great time to look for a share.
For some working full time and can't get to the yard until 6pm vs. you at school who can get there at 4pm - assuming you have a parent who can take you.
 
YO here: and one who has both loaned and been a loaner, as well as having had/currently got loan horses at the yard.

If there is "payment" involved in a loan, then surely that isn't a loan, it is a "share"?? Most loan situations are where the person taking the horse on loan (the "loanee") agrees to pay for everything connected with that horse in the same way that the owner would. However some owners do insure the horse for "loss of use" just in case the worst happens out on loan.

There are always THREE people involved with any loan, and who must be singing off the same hymn-sheet at all times without fail: and these are YO, owner/loaner, and loanee. Four vital words which need to be in place between these three individuals are: Communication, Trust, Honesty & Transparency. Without these things in place the loan will be doomed to failure; sadly I've seen it happen.

Good luck!!
 
First of all, well done on asking for guidance. Lots of people go into things like this blindly and are nowhere near ready so the fact you're asking these questions shows a great deal of maturity - which will stand you in good stead when the time comes.

I'm of the opinion that nobody is really ready for their first horse (like their first child!) and you learn as you go but having the right support is vital. I fell into sharing almost by accident when I was 12, then one thing led to another and 30+ years later I'm on horse number 6. I never planned any of it! That first owner who let a 12 year old riding school kid ride her freshly broken 13hh 5 year old was absolutely brilliant in supporting me and showing me the ropes. In return, I put mileage on this rescue pony she never planned to have but inherited so he'd be ready for her 5 year old daughter when she was big enough for him. He was a little git and bucked me off as soon as look at me but I bounced in those days so would get straight back on and carry on! When I outgrew him I moved on to her Section D eventually buying him for £5 (long story!) and having him until we were both 27.

Surround yourself with the right people and you'll be fine. A share is great for that - you'll have an owner who ultimately gets to make the decisions so that responsibility is taken away but you get to learn about the day to day stuff with back up if needed. You also only have to commit to x number of days so you can see if horse ownership really is for you before taking the leap properly and if it's not, you can walk away relatively easily. If you're not motivated to look after a horse 3 or 4 days a week, you're definitely not ready but if you do your days and still want more, you're well on the way.

I'd explore the riding school loan (which sounds like it could be a version of a share?) a bit more. What exactly does your £100 cover? Will you have any other costs like feed / hay / bedding / shoeing etc or is that included in the £100 a week (that sounds incredibly cheap if they are)? Do you have to do all the care for the horse or will the riding school staff do it? Will the horse still be used in the school and if so, when will you have access to it? Is there any flexibility around that? It's no good if you can only ride at 9am on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays (for example) if you have to be doing your course then.

If the school loan is suitable, I'd go for that in the first instance and build your experience before taking the next step. This would also help you plan the transition and talk to the YO about their expectations for a horse on livery there - is that something they offer or is it working livery only? Are they willing to be flexible around that or will you need to find another yard and will you have the right support if you do?
 
Do the riding school loan. You will get a suitable horse at a fixed price, you will get support and independence without the risk to your family or the horse owner.
 
Another vote for the riding school loan, it sounds like it would be a safer and more beneficial than diving straight into loaning. We purchased our daughter her first horse a couple months ago after years of lessons and sharing and although I've had my own in the past it was a much better choice to gradually build up to owning/full responsiblity with a horse (as you would have with a full loan)
 
I have a mare on full loan, I would say that sometimes owners loan out their horses because they don’t like the idea of selling, and want that legal safety net. It is also less of a commitment, as you can send the horse back.

It works really well for me, I’m responsible for all of cob’s costs and care, in this case she’s on my land (I’m very close to her original home), and we don’t pay additional fees to the owner. Cob has ended up being a good little cob who would’ve been snapped up within a day on the open market. (How I ended up getting her is a long and convoluted, but nice story). She does have her issues (strong as a tank when she wants to be) but with a bit of work she seems to be doing nicely.

I also have a friend who gets a new loan and/or part-loan horse every 6 months to a year (short-term loans). Out of the 5-7 horses she’s had in this scenario, most of them have been good and she’s brought them on a bit. However, she got one at the start of summer to do dressage with, and he was brilliant over summer, but with the season change he’s started rearing under saddle so he’s going back.

Overall, loaning arrangements vary a lot from situation to situation, but I think, on the whole, loaning and part-loaning is a really good way to gain experience with a safety net. Most loan/part-loan horses are the sort of horses that their owners don’t want to sell and who wouldn’t come up on the open market.
 
Definitely go r.s. loan or share if you have liveries there.
I have one of mine out on loan and still pay for his cushings medication. He is hacking only and in a wonderful private home.
We also have an ex higher level eventer on loan but bear all costs including insurance which is stipulated in loan agreement. As we have our horses at home our costs are very different to those on livery.
 
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