Memory Foam - a saddler's thoughts.

kerilli

kerilli

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Yesterday I had a totally ace saddle fitter here, Barnsby's troubleshooter guy, wow does he know his stuff. He's been twice now (once to measure and check, once to fit) and obligingly answered my 1 million questions - re: my saddles, friends' saddle problems, other makes of saddle, you name it. I was very tempted to try to keep him here forever but luckily for him I didn't have a straitjacket to hand... ;) ;)
Net result is that Daisy has a gorgeous spangly new Barnsby Milton which is just perfect - happy Daisy, happy happy me. :) :) :)
Also, my brain is now stuffed with stuff, as it were.
So, we were talking about pads, memory foam. He said that some of the foams have a high moisture content, so if they get cold they go hard. He found this out by leaving a pad outside the tackroom in winter, picking it up in the morning and realising it felt like a plank of wood! He advised leaving my memory-foam pads, shims etc outside and doing that test, which I intend to do. Fascinating, huh? Definitely worth cranking the heat up in the tackroom if that might happen.
Thoughts?
 
Slight side track (sorry),

Did you pick his brains on the new Barnsby iTree?

Are these tree's really fully adjustable (as it you could sell one horse and buy a completely different shaped horse and the tree could be altered), or are they just easily tweaked for the horse shape they were originally purchased for?

How much does a tree reshape cost and does the saddle have to be sent away or is it done on site? And if you don't mind (by PM if needed) how much do these saddles cost to purchase (thinking dressage and/or jump!)

ETA - makes perfect sense regarding the memory foam, and certainly pretty common knowledge that the latex types take a while to heat up and mould
 
must admit, although we chatted briefly about them last time, we didn't touch on it this time, so you'd be better off asking Barnsby direct. I'm not sure if the shape of the tree can be altered, or is it just the head-plate widening and narrowing? I really don't know, sorry.
 
I've just had a Barnsby Universal and I love it! Just to answer the question re the itree - my saddler who is very good thinks its a good concept. He said it made the trees very adjustable and it could be done on site and was less costly than the saddler having to take the saddle away and adjust it.
 
Yes, I'd heard that about memory foam, but from somewhere else - my brains fails me where - motorsport related, I think.

The other thing that I remember being shown were the indentations in flocked panels that are caused by a saddle sitting on a standard saddle rack. It stayed with me to such an extent that my saddle racks are now covered with foam pipe lagging to prevent it.

Sorry - bit off topic, but worth thinking about if you have a lovely new flocked saddle.

I have my saddle fitter out next week and am really looking forward to his visit. I always find it fascinating, but then, it is wonderful to talk to someone who is truely passionate about fitting correctly.

:)
 
Was it JJ that came out K? He came out to me recently and I thought he was excellent.

We had a memory foam mattress for a while and hated it - it got so hot :( I agree that a solid memory foam pad would react to heat as mentioned. I've got the Ecogold one which comprises different layers - the one being closest to the horse has more of a honeycomb structure sitting beneath the fabric. I have never noticed any difference in the pliance of the pad before or after work.... it's kept in a very cool tackroom and although we have not had any cold temperatures yet I've not noticed it harden at all.....
 
icestationzebra, yes, it was JJ, he's a fascinating guy, isn't he? Ah, I've been looking for someone with an Ecogold triple protection 1/2 pad, is it really good? Gets glowing recommendations on the other side of the pond, but it's quite expensive, I'm wavering...
foxy1, I think Prolite are okay because they're not memory foam, they're a different type of foam and feel more rubbery than 'wet', that's not very scientific but the 'wet feeling' ones are the ones that harden up when cold, apparently.
I've used prolite for years and really rate them. A different saddler told me that they do tire out though, the foam gets compressed over time/use and they need replacing, which isn't well known, I suspect.
Supanova, that's really good to know. I've had a look at the Barnsby Universal, very nice!
Vetwrap, interesting that you've heard it before, it was a new one on me, but makes sense.
I'm with you on the 'saddle racks' thing, it's an absolute pet hate of mine! I have the old-fashioned single pole ones now, so no pressure on the panels at all. I can't stand seeing tackrooms with saddles resting on that frame type, indenting the panels. Even worse, saddles piled on top of each other with the bottom one on a frame! saddler told me it is impossible to work the dents out of flocking.
ester... ah, interesting. so whatever is in the seatsaver, is that sort of foam, okay.
ta all. :) :)
 
I've got 2 memory foam pads. I love them. I had noticed that they go hard (same as my BP, as it happens), but since I put them on ned's back and don't girth up properly until they've warmed up, I don't have a problem (I don't think!) Also, it's never as cold here as in the UK :p I love them. Was very worried you'd tell us they were very bad for horses' backs. And just stop with the saddle porn, OK? ;)
 
PapaFrita said:
I've got 2 memory foam pads. I love them. I had noticed that they go hard (same as my BP, as it happens), but since I put them on ned's back and don't girth up properly until they've warmed up, I don't have a problem (I don't think!) Also, it's never as cold here as in the UK :p I love them. Was very worried you'd tell us they were very bad for horses' backs. And just stop with the saddle porn, OK? ;)
Click to expand...

I wonder how many people out there are patient and wait until the foam has warmed up before girthing up tight? ;) ;) Or even know that that's probably a good idea....
Which memory-foam pads have you got, out of interest, please?
Just stop it about the 'it's never as cold here as in the UK', alright? We've had dense fog everywhere for 3 days now, the sky is on the floor. It is just so damp everywhere, and muddy. Ugh.
Saddle porn? Moi? ;) ;) ;) I can't help it if it's soooooo droolworthy, can I? It is the Hugh Jackman of saddles...
 
I sold my expensive seat saver on ebay, to a lady who returned it saying it was too stiff. I sat on it on the sofa for a few minutes and it went nice and soft again. It was rather annoying and of course because it was memory foam!!!
 
I'll be interested to see what happens to memory foam in a few years time as it's very noticeable that my memory foam pillows seem to have lost their memory somewhat and are much flatter than when they were new.
 
siennamum said:
I sold my expensive seat saver on ebay, to a lady who returned it saying it was too stiff. I sat on it on the sofa for a few minutes and it went nice and soft again. It was rather annoying and of course because it was memory foam!!!
Click to expand...
oh, that is annoying... makes sense though i guess. i hope i can beat that with the person who bought a pair of fullseat pikeur breeches from me on ebay, in vgc, for a song, and then complained because they were cream not beige, or beige not cream, i can't remember which... but there had been a photo of them anyway! when i said i'd have them back she said "No, they're fine, I want to keep them..." Argghhhhh... ;) ;)

OldBat, good to know there's other people out there who have noticed the problem. It's ridiculous that something designed to hold saddles can damage them though, so it's easy never to give it a thought... until a saddler pointed it out to me, I had no clue.
 
We have a foam gel pad thing at work, its awful when you first put it on, but the heat from the horse makes it lovely and when you take it off it is the exact shape of the horse.
Dee- this one has been going 5 years now and is still fine. Even if you ride a lot I guess you will sleep more so the pillow would get a lot more use :)
 
Interestingly the latex panels they use in Butet saddles is very like memory foam - always much softer and nicer once warmed up. I always keep my tack inside so mine are always reasonably warm when they go on the horses but you do notice the panels warm up once on the horse if you're at an event. I usually leave the saddle on for a little while before I get on, particularly with my cold-backed horse, and it makes a lot of difference getting on him. Saddle fits him well but I think it probably mould into his shape much better once warm.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
I'll be interested to see what happens to memory foam in a few years time as it's very noticeable that my memory foam pillows seem to have lost their memory somewhat and are much flatter than when they were new.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what happens with Prolite too, it definitely gets flatter, less resilient, over years. My Tempur mattress is supposed to be replaced after 10 years (so, about now, eeek) but it still feels fine at the moment...
Does make me wonder about saddles they are putting it in... which type of memory foam are they using? Presumably this has all been taken into account, hope so.

kit, that's interesting. My new saddle has latex and felt panels, I'll have to monitor it to see whether the temperature makes a lot of difference. I don't know whether the latex or the felt layer is closest to the skin, might ask!

icz, that's great to know, another glowing recommendation. I'll stick it higher up my Wish List again! ;) ;)
 
i've had my hm seatsaver for 15 years :eek: still good as apart from shiney suede!

Have to say am not convinced about its properties for saddles though as it does compress so easily... and has such less 'bounce/support' so if you have a pressure point I worry about its ability to disperse it rather than just compress
 
Two of my ancient Barnsbys are foam and felt panelled, when they come out of the outdoor tack locker they always feel rather firm, but 5-10 min sat on the horses back whilst tacking up seems to soften them up. I have got into the habit of putting saddle on first then its sat on while I do boots, bridle, my hat etc and thats enough time to have them soften and mould. I've yet to have a horse object and my cold-backed boy goes better in his foam Barnsby Whitaker than any other saddle, even in the cold. I'm not sure what the difference between the foam in them and in the new saddles is but it certainly seems to still do its job. Oh, and the saddles fit everything brilliantly, and I do mean everything, unlike the flocked version of the same saddle that I also have that just never sits quite as well and doesn't really fit anything I have here, but that I am loathed to get rid of... :(
 
Scarlett, that's good to know about the foam and felt ones, thanks.
I had my two Swaine jump saddles stripped of their flocking and redone with latex and felt, it wasn't that expensive, might be worth contacting Barnsby and asking how much, worth it to have another useful saddle, no?
I know someone who says the hunters in flocked saddles get sore backs, and the ones in saddles with latex panels don't. Must admit I love the total uniformity of the latex, and the fact that I can use various pads and shims to get the fit as good as possible...
 
It *almost* fits my big ginger boy so I'm going to see where we are in spring once he's filled out, and if not I will have the panels changed if poss. I've been hoping a black, 17.5 foam one would come up for sale but sadly no... I did buy one but it turned out it was a 17 and I don't fit in it! Saddle shopping sucks...! :)

I was worried about putting one on my mare as she was hyper sensitive to saddle and fit but she definately prefered the latex... would always now go for foam over flock, unless I had a horse that objected, obv. The fit is better, definately. Now I understand how Pro riders have one saddle for everything! :)
 
kerilli said:
I wonder how many people out there are patient and wait until the foam has warmed up before girthing up tight? ;) ;) Or even know that that's probably a good idea....
Which memory-foam pads have you got, out of interest, please?
Just stop it about the 'it's never as cold here as in the UK', alright? We've had dense fog everywhere for 3 days now, the sky is on the floor. It is just so damp everywhere, and muddy. Ugh.
Saddle porn? Moi? ;) ;) ;) I can't help it if it's soooooo droolworthy, can I? It is the Hugh Jackman of saddles...
Click to expand...

I'm a creature of habit; saddle on first, loosely girthed then I faff around with bridle, boots, etc. By the time I've kitted myself out, saddle pad is nice and warm :)
I've got Heather Moffett back savers, second-hand from eBay. Interestingly one is rather larger than the other, but they both fit fine under my saddle(s). I also have the seat saver (ditto from eBay). They don't seem to come up for sale v often which suggests they're popular.
It is indeed a gorgeous saddle.
Have I mentioned that we've got sun forecast all week? :p
 
ester said:
Have to say am not convinced about its properties for saddles though as it does compress so easily... and has such less 'bounce/support' so if you have a pressure point I worry about its ability to disperse it rather than just compress
Click to expand...

If you had JUST the memory foam it might not be a good idea, but a combination of latex/flocking and memory foam on the outside would be basically the same principle as using a back saver pad, surely?
 
PapaFrita said:
If you had JUST the memory foam it might not be a good idea, but a combination of latex/flocking and memory foam on the outside would be basically the same principle as using a back saver pad, surely?
Click to expand...

As far as I know (and I could be totally wrong, will wait to stand corrected) it is either/or on the flocking/foam. Saddlers want just flocking to faff around with in future (which they do 'blind', poking more in and shoving it around with that stabby thing that looks like a giant darning needle iirc), OR layers of foam, latex, felt, whatever, which are cut and layered (stuck together? I don't know) and guaranteed to stay in the same place etc.
But I think you're right, they do a combination of different materials, usually.
I'd rather have the panels as the known quantity and be able to make fiddly alterations with pads etc.
This reminds me of the saddler I know of who ordered & fitted a wonky saddle (one panel significantly fatter than the other, I saw it and had the misfortune of trying to ride in it!) to fit a wonky horse and a wonky rider. I really can't see the sense of that, surely you want at least 1 part of the sandwich to be straight?!?!?! Horse might muscle up more evenly, rider might improve, if the saddle's wonky, how can you tell?!
 
ahh that makes sense, latex with a memory foam round the edge would work ;) missed that that was the suggestion/manufacturing

I just have images of it squishing too much :D
 
I had a different barnsby fitter but equally impressed. I am waiting on my new saddle coming maybe Friday :eek::D and it has double thickness memory foam in the seat and knee rolls, not sure about the rest of it :o
 
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