Micheal Peace for spooky horse

ticobay831

ticobay831

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As the title really - any feedback. A friend is thinking of using Michael Peace as a last resort with a spooky nappy sensitive trakhener that she really dosnt want to sell but is seriously considering it..! He's expensive but she dosnt mind paying if it's worth it
 
Bubbles said:
He is expensive but IMO worth it. If he can't crack the horse no one else will...
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He is VERY expensive - and there are no guarantees! But silly to say no-one else could do it if he couldn't! :rolleyes:

With a horse like this, you really have to think about causes - it's unlikely to be a problem that can be 'cured' totally JUST by one trainer or another. The physical needs to be checked thoroughly - everything from eyesight to possible deep-seated muscular problems. The rider must also be assessed - some riders MAKE spooky horses. It may be that the horse's breeding and/or early handling/life experiences have left him with mental scars.

I have a mare here (about to go home) who was SO nervous when she arrived that it regularly used to take 5 minutes to catch her in the stable, who wouldn't allow her head to be touched, who jumped into the middle of next week at the slightest thing. I confess there was a time when I despaired we would EVER get her backed! It took 5 months, but she's now working nicely in the school, hacking sensibly and ready to be a useful member of equine society. Her problems were partly bloodlines, partly lack of early handling, incorrect early handling, and serious muscle contraction (after a fall of some sort) - and maybe something else we can't begin to guess at! (And she had passed a 5 stage vetting the day before she arrived!! :rolleyes:) Rehabilitating her needed a team approach - with considerable input from the best physiotheraspist in the country!

She IS still potentially 'nervous' and 'girthy' - almost certainly always will be - it's who she is. And this may well apply to your friend's horse - he may aways be 'sensitive' - even after a big investment in training. This sort of horse can rarely be 100% 'cured', so your friend needs to think how big an improvement she needs (50% better, 90% better) and how much she's prepared to invest in his future. It is unlikely to be a quick fix!

If your friend is in the Midlands, she'd be more than welcome to come and see me - and some of our 'problem' horses - and discuss her horse and the sort of approach that might work, how long it's likely to take, and cost! I'd want to look at her ride (on one of mine) to see if there's anything there that might be contributing.
 
xxMozlarxx said:
What sort of rider issues would you be looking for Janet?
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General confidence and competence, whether they ride 'light' or heavy (and this hasn't got much to do with weight) and - most particularly, how 'busy' they are with their hands.

Some riders just can't help themselves from either fixing the contact or - possibly worse - fiddling away at the horse's mouth, trying to get it into 'a shape'! (And not just novices, I've seen it in riders competing Medium and above!)

And some riders anticipate napping or spooking - and make it inevitable! :rolleyes:

I sold a super youngster some years back as a just backed 3 year old - she was THE most confident horse I'd ever hacked out! The buyer had NO problems with her but after 18 months, took a profit and sold her to an unsuitable rider. Within a few months she was a nervous wreck (nervousness is catching! :D ) The rider made the horse scared! She was on the market for a while (she was torn apart on THIS forum and the potential buyer missed a lovely mare! :rolleyes:) and I finally couldn't stand it any longer and bought her back. The first time I hacked her I nearly cried! She was terrified of everything and anything and had NO trust in the rider. It took 4 months of concentrated effort to get her back to her old self. And she was 3/4 ID so not naturally 'sharp' - or nervous!
 
Totally agree with JG especially the eyesight. My friend had a pony on loan who napped very badly but only on one side. The vet had a look at him and said he had gone blind in one eye. This is why I always say get the horse vetted before buying even if it's just eyes, heart and lungs.
 
I send a newly backed DWB mare to Micheal a few years back. She was probably the most intelligent horse I've ever known and I felt that she needed to best start possible otherwise she had the potential to become a disaster.
She was with him for 5 weeks and he did lots of exercises to get her thinking and confidence building. She learnt loads, she had fun and was putty in his hands. She adored him.
I had several lessons while she was there and the main thing I remember about his style of teaching, was that he made everything seem so simple. He gave me some great tips that have been so useful on other horses I've had, so for me, while it was expensive, it was probably the best investment I've made.
 
thinks for all the advice, my friend is a very experienced rider, the haore has had a few problems which we have dealt with, vets, physio etc, she gets allot of advise form feed merchants and is very carefull with his diet, hes a very tallanted horse and is currantly working at intermediate level and doing very well.

The horse wants for nothing and we get our heads together and try to work out why he is behaving this way because at the end of the day every horse does somthing for a reason and to be honest we have covered everything we can think of and this is the last resort.
He's also been thorouighly checked over by the vet, bloods etc so we have done everything posible.
he just seems to be getting worse and she isnt enjoying him anymore somtimes she cant even get him round the school with out him spooking at really nithing thats apparant.

Its very frustrating and i feel very sorry for her as she has spent alot of time and money trying to sort this horse out. She also has lessons every two weeks, she is a very good rider. Oh and her trainer is very good as well, just in case you start saying to change her.. ;-) x
 
We had Micheal Peace out for our TB who at 5 was a complete nightmare in hand, we're based in Kent and for Micheal to come out then (this is a couple of years ago) it was about £250. However, he was very good and spent a lot of time ensuring we felt comfortable with what he thought would work for our horse. It is not a quick fix and although the techniques worked, we had to be consistant and actually we found with regular/varied work/as he got older/yard move, the behaviour naturally improved.

I also have a spooky mare, she is 14, I totally agree with Janet above. I have been riding for a (very!) long time but I am nervous. I wouldn't hack her out as it scares me, I anticipate when she is going to spook and therefore wrongly 'hang' onto her with both my seat and hands. Which of course makes the situation worse. My boyfriend has only been riding 3 years, happily hacks her out on a long rein, and although she still spooks she doesn't get wound up and it is much less than with me.
 
Michael is a very nice person, he came to me, but within about 20 minutes he decided he could not help me and told me that the horse had to go to him for 6 weeks, at an absolutely crazy cost. He only took a nominal sum of money because he said his wife should have told him the extent of the problem and that it could not be solved in a home visit (I felt that I had explained it in great detail to her). I thought that was pretty decent of him.

His wife is quite pushy, so I would suggest you try to speak to him directly before organising the visit.
 
I don't think selling on a problem is a good idea, if someone can sort him out the future is much happier. There is a lot of work involved with horses, and obviously, expense, but maybe the horse and rider/owner will have to part however, the behaviourist should be able to advise.
 
The last year he has been a dream to lead, even my other half will bring him in from the field now and thats saying somthing. He,s not too bad lunging but does occasionally spook, it would just be nice for her to go round the whole of the school without a spook, she cant get after him too much either cause he just looses the plot, so she has to try and ride him through it. He's even threatening to go up with her now, hes very well and gets a bit too big for his boots somtimes. Typical Trakenher apparantly :-/
 
ticobay831 said:
The last year he has been a dream to lead, even my other half will bring him in from the field now and thats saying somthing. He,s not too bad lunging but does occasionally spook, it would just be nice for her to go round the whole of the school without a spook, she cant get after him too much either cause he just looses the plot, so she has to try and ride him through it. He's even threatening to go up with her now, hes very well and gets a bit too big for his boots somtimes. Typical Trakenher apparantly :-/
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From this it sounds as though she is over-horsed to be honest, it takes a lot of experience to know which button to press and which to leave alone while sitting calmly and securely on a ticking time bomb. I would love to send my boy to my instructor for a months, I know he would be a different guy when he came back, but he takes about two months to settle in to a new environment so he has to be worked on at home.
 
Trust me she is a very experenced and capable rider she has had far worse horses than this to deal with and shes always got them over their issues and got them going very well its just this one, thats why she is considering getting Micheals help. :-/
 
Reading over this post, I think there is something there, "the rider is not enjoying it any more"........... that is a signal to me that she would rather sell than keep, this does happen.
I would think about spending the money on sending to a schooling yard with a view to selling on, they can demonstrate the horse to others and identify its potential, also should have good contacts, to be honest if she is able to lunge it and ride it and have a lesson every two weeks, it is not too bad!!!! It may be a pro type ride rather than an amateur.
 
she dosnt want to sell him, she thinks the world of him, he is a very talanted horse, but shes been trying to sort these issues out for the last five years and she's at the end of her tether now.....! (Everything's been checked on several occasions so this really is his last chance!!)
I personally think she should give him a go, she's got nothing to loose, but she just wanted a bit of feedback, thanks guys, as usual youve all been very helpfull xx
 
ticobay831 said:
Trust me she is a very experenced and capable rider she has had far worse horses than this to deal with and shes always got them over their issues and got them going very well its just this one, thats why she is considering getting Micheals help. :-/
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Kind of similar to me in that, I'd had horses that were far more challenging, but I couldn't connect with this particular mare, even though I thought the world of her. She was very talented and very bright.
In trying to see where she was coming from, I'd over complicated things and needed to stop and rethink what was holding me back from clicking with her.
Watching MP work with her showed a mare that was willing and revelled in her ability to learn new things quickly. This was a turning point for me, I saw her in a new way. Sounds funny, but I no longer looked at her as a talented diva, I just saw a horse, like any other. Vunerable and dependant on my trust in her, before she could trust me.
I had her another 3 years before she went to a 13 year old girl who went on to compete quite successfully and her mother described the mare as a confidence giver.
 
Has she thought about turning him away for a couple of months and then just hacking him about to give him a bit of a holiday from the pressure she is putting on him? Some horses just cant take the regimentation of a school all the time and his breed are a lot brighter than some others.
 
I own a VERY spooky horse, I bought him after the he had scared the previous owner and dumped her at a dressage comp.
He has every trick in the book, spin, reverse, jump in the air, run backwards. All of them.
I perserved with him and really got him on the aids as the main problem was he was not connected and he was behind the leg.
I firstly got him much more responsive on the lunge ( in side reins or similar) and made sure that he also listen to my voice.
Once he was good at this we moved on to ridden work, to start with I always had company as this helped.
I would walk him in hand in the arena to see things first and use this as his walking in and then I would get on. From the second I was in the saddle he was ridden on the bit and in front of my leg. If I needed to put him deep and round to get his attention then so be it ( if he went BTV for a bit then I wasn't worried as long as he was listening. I would also start my work in the area of the arena he was most happy and relaxed and only moved to the scary areas when he was working.
I would always include lots of transitions and changes of rein /bend to keep his attention.
I can honestly say he has not spooked really for ages both here and at a show.
I feed him Magnitude calmer as well.

ETA: If I needed to really get him to focus I would not be worried about putting him in a pair of loose ish draw reins to keep him 'round' and to the aids.
 
I sent a young horse to MP for bringing on and was very disappointed with the result. Be warned that there is no come back - if things go wrong he will do his best to distance himself from the problem as much as he can. I also witnessed some very rough handling of my mare - stupid fool that I am, I didn't challenge him at the time, believing he was the "great" Michael Peace. I would say that you will get better help and advice elsewhere for not so much money. His riding style is also pretty appalling. He can stay on, that's the best thing that can be said for him.
 
ticobay831 said:
thinks for all the advice, my friend is a very experienced rider, the haore has had a few problems which we have dealt with, vets, physio etc, she gets allot of advise form feed merchants and is very carefull with his diet, hes a very tallanted horse and is currantly working at intermediate level and doing very well.

The horse wants for nothing and we get our heads together and try to work out why he is behaving this way because at the end of the day every horse does somthing for a reason and to be honest we have covered everything we can think of and this is the last resort.
He's also been thorouighly checked over by the vet, bloods etc so we have done everything posible.
he just seems to be getting worse and she isnt enjoying him anymore somtimes she cant even get him round the school with out him spooking at really nithing thats apparant.
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If the horse is getting worse with an experienced rider who is doing nothing 'wrong', then the most likely possibilities are eyes, brain (tumour) or muscle problems that haven't been identified.

Even the best riders can get it wrong if the horse is being totally unco-operative - it's an instinctive 'reaction' to KNOWING that the horse is about to spook that can in fact set it off. And advice from a feed company on feeding is very likely to mean he's getting more 'energy' food than he needs (feed co. reps virtually NEVER advise reducing the food :rolleyes:) and even the best vets and physios can occasionally miss something/get it wrong! (As can the best instructors!)

And of course, when you KNOW a horse very well and have been looking at him for a long time, it can actually make it harder to spot something you've missed previously: same with a rider you've been teaching for a long time. And a horse who has been in the same environment for some time can 'change' just by going somewhere new! We often get horses in for re-schooling who are meant to be bargey - or ill-mannered in some other way - and they arrive here and behave beautifully. (Can be a bit embarrassing as it's hard to 'fix' a problem that doesn't show!) And - even a GOOD rider - can have a hard to spot problem (a tension in a hip or lower back) - which is why I like to put owners on a couple of horses I know VERY well - and which they don't know at all. The horses' reaction to THAT rider can tell me what I might not be able to SEE!
 
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If it were me, I'd be talking further to JanetGeorge, especially as you are fairly close to her. Worth a try and her ideas seem very sensible.
 
ticobay831 said:
she dosnt want to sell him, she thinks the world of him, he is a very talanted horse, but shes been trying to sort these issues out for the last five years and she's at the end of her tether now.....! (Everything's been checked on several occasions so this really is his last chance!!)
I personally think she should give him a go, she's got nothing to loose, but she just wanted a bit of feedback, thanks guys, as usual youve all been very helpfull xx
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From what you have said, and I may be wrong, the horse is talented ,but is a pro ride.
There are loads of "good riders" around but not many professional, it is like a good amateur golfer, he may win a few cups , but he can't make a living from it, he is just not good enough.
When I worked professionally, I could pick out "good riders" from professionals, as they walked out of the yard. they were "in the groove" on every horse they got on.
 
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Thanks for all your help and advise but really only wanted to know of peoples experiances with the work Micheals does.
There is allot of things your not aware of with this horse and rider so you cant possibly advise without all the facts, but we do appriciate your sugestions.

PS she gets advise from her feed merchant beacuse he has suffered with ulcers in the past, she is very carefull, she has to be... and yes he has been scanned and all is well with that and has been for over 12 months now.. :-) x
 
We did use him for a horse that was sharp and would bolt when you mounted. He went there for six weeks. He was not 'cured" when he returned and the owner( teenager) was advised to sell him to a pro but he was much much better. Wasn't cheap though.
I took the same horse prior to him going to Micheal s to a demo with him and he was on him and riding him within a few mins
 
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