Microchipping for all equines

[Orangehorse]

I am surprised that there haven't been howls of protest about this. My horse was born long before 2009 so he and the companion will need chipping, so it will be an expense for me - for a companion that never leaves the place and a horse that is no longer competeting and will not be sold.

But it does make a lot of sense, and it is a pity that it wasn't brought in when passports were introduced.

I suppose a microchip can be dug out of the horse's neck, but how many people would stoop to that? Mm, maybe .......

It will stop the warmblood ex show jumper showing up with a passport at a sale with a passport 3 weeks old with no trace of breeding or previous owners ..............................

 

[Cortez]

Microchipping for horses has been compulsory here (Ireland) for at least 15 years, now also for dogs. Why would people protest at something that will only be an aid in identifying animals?

 

[meleeka]

I won’t be getting my elderly mare done. I’m pretty sure it will be like all the other laws around animals - not enforced. It’s only inconveniencing decent horse owners. We will still have large numbers of dumped dead colts and it’s not going to do anything more for those than it already does.

Isn’t it now law for dogs to me microchipped? I bet there hasn’t been one prosecution and all the time it’s left to local councils there won’t be.

 

[3OldPonies]

I can see that for the majority of people who have un-chipped horses this is an extra expense on top of passports and the waste of time that was the national equine database turned out to be. I saw in the HH article that they are hoping with the new database to stop people hanging on to the passports of horses that have died. Now that is all very well, but the majority of those people are probably doing so because the passport is a momento of their horse that they don't want to lose. There will also be those of course who have passports from a PIO that is no longer in business or is no longer allowed to issue passports. Not only that, but the PIOs that there are charge for amendments to passports and I know from experience that some owners don't send passports back to PIOs for updating with new details; and when the charges vary so much from PIO to PIO than I can understand why. It can be an expensive business just getting details changed with all the organisations involved these days. Our hobby is quite expensive enough and I just can't see that adding more expense, in effect retrospectively, is going to help.

The very people that they are trying to 'nab' with this are those indiscriminate breeders, fly grazers and all round 'bad eggs' of the horse world. Sadly these people are highly unlikely to bother with either passports or microchips and until such time as a horse is 'rescued' into a proper home then it won't have either - which of course means that for that fraternity the situation will not change. It will only be the law abiding horse owners that will take on the extra expense, the criminal fraternity will not.

 

[joosie]

Microchipping horses has been a legal requirement in Europe for years, the UK is way behind!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Microchipping is pointless if the info is never kept up to date. When our foal was chipped the very told me they would put all of the info into the database as part of their job. A few weeks later I rang the 2 main chipping companies to see if this had been done. I had no idea who she was chipped with hence ringing around. Only to find that the chip had never been registered! So don't rely on your vet doing it when they say they will! She is registered now.

But how many others have chips that aren't registered? Same with dogs -just because it has a chip doesn't mean to say it has a name registered to it!

 

[hobo]

I am happy to get my older horse micro chipped but I will not and have not given any passports back of my horses that have passed away. They were my family and I paid for the passport it is mine and it is like old ponies said that last memory of our loved ones.

It did make me wonder about human passports do they need to be handed in if someone dies?

 

[honetpot]

I do not mind micro chipping, I do mind breed societies charging an arm and a leg for changing ownership.
If the chip company holds a database, that is one way of generating income, you should be able to change the details online for a minimal fee. None of this sending the passport off and waiting so many weeks and being charged £50 for a signature and a label.
When passports came out I got a passport for everything, shopped around and got the cheapest deal for the unreg, which was about £20.
Last time I had one done, the vet came out chip, passport, I send off the paperwork for an all in price of £30. The company that does this I think allows you to change the details on line, and the chip company also sends you a registration form.

Passports are a farce, the pony I have just purchased I know has had four owners since the last time he changed ownership on his passport. Chipping is entirely different, horses can cause as much damage as a stray dog, if ones found and its not chipped they should be legally able to rehome or destroy it, like they do dogs. If you can not afford £30 you can not afford to own a horse and perhaps its better off rehomed.

 

[Cecile]

I am happy to get my older horse micro chipped but I will not and have not given any passports back of my horses that have passed away. They were my family and I paid for the passport it is mine and it is like old ponies said that last memory of our loved ones.

It did make me wonder about human passports do they need to be handed in if someone dies?

Yes a human passport should be sent in when someone is dead but you request it to be returned when the information is recorded, I seem to remember they send it back with a corner cut off

Same with horses, not sure if they all do it, send passport in and request it is returned, I seem to recall they also send it back with a corner cut off, if they don't have the facility to return it or start acting like dictators don't bother sending it in

 

[Mkw]

Regarding passports we have, in Denmark where I live, the option of getting the passport back with a stamp saying the horse is dead. That way, the horse is registered as dead, the passport says so and you get to keep the passport as a memento if you want that.

As for chipping, it's still (sort of) optional here. But if you choose not to do it, the horse is seen as livestock and you need to adhere to all the same rules as if it was a pig or a cow. That means for instance when treating injuries you are limited to medicine that is allowed for animals that are meant to be eaten. It also means a lot of extra work registrering anything the horse eats and what not. So most people choose to chip and registrer the horse as "not to be eaten" or what ever you would call that.

 

[Cecile]

Microchipping for horses has been compulsory here (Ireland) for at least 15 years, now also for dogs. Why would people protest at something that will only be an aid in identifying animals?

I admire your knowledge when you post so this is not waving a red flag at a bull but in all honesty do you really believe this filly will have a passport or microchip so she can be identified and that the bars**** can be brought to justice

Don't open the link if you have a sensitive nature please!

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/horse-raced-death-cork

 

[Cortez]

Yes, I had seen this reported the other day: not an isolated incident, unfortunately. No Idea if it had a chip, most likely not if it was owned by the usual people who do this sort of thing, but that is sort of the point - an unchipped/unpassported horse is easy to seize. What needs to happen here (Ireland) is greater enforcement and that can't happen until there are facilities to handle the animals. Not the fault of chipping.

 

[Cecile]

I am happy to get my older horse micro chipped but I will not and have not given any passports back of my horses that have passed away. They were my family and I paid for the passport it is mine and it is like old ponies said that last memory of our loved ones.

It did make me wonder about human passports do they need to be handed in if someone dies?

I can't go through my returned deceased horse passports at present but found a human one, they do not write anything in it but cut off the right hand corner before it is returned, I'm almost certain returned deceased horse passports are the same but I can't confirm every horse PIO returns it if requested, I do know some do, so worth asking, some of my horse passports contained photo's so I wouldn't send them in until I was certain they would be returned

 

[Cecile]

Yes, I had seen this reported the other day: not an isolated incident, unfortunately. No Idea if it had a chip, most likely not if it was owned by the usual people who do this sort of thing, but that is sort of the point - an unchipped/unpassported horse is easy to seize. What needs to happen here (Ireland) is greater enforcement and that can't happen until there are facilities to handle the animals. Not the fault of chipping.

I bet yours are well covered with passports and microchips. Enforcement or the lack of it is what brings the whole system down, sometimes making laws for the law abiding just doesn't seem to make sense when only the law abiding follow the rules, eventually you have law abiding people just not bothering either. If they get the enforcement and resources sorted first at least people would feel like it may or would work so its worth doing

 

[Cortez]

Not chipping or passporting your horse because some people don't is not a valid argument. Some people don't have a TV license, or pay their taxes, but that doesn't mean it's optional. Permanently identifying your horse can only be a good thing and I really fail to see why so many people are against doing so. The cost element is not huge in the scheme of things, and if you want to sell in a sale, compete, transport or medically treat your horse then it has to have both a passport and a chip.

And failing to register or update a chip is just plain stupid, especially when the dog goes missing. We're really hot on chips/passports here at Cortez Towers, I'd chip the chickens if I could....

 

[meleeka]

Passports are a farce, the pony I have just purchased I know has had four owners since the last time he changed ownership on his passport. Chipping is entirely different, horses can cause as much damage as a stray dog, if ones found and its not chipped they should be legally able to rehome or destroy it, like they do dogs. If you can not afford £30 you can not afford to own a horse and perhaps its better off rehomed.

It’s not about the £30, it’s the fact that the Government has made yet another law that they aren’t willing to enforce. They are leaving it to Councils to do, but there’s no legal obligation for councils to do anything. Since most of them are strapped for cash, they won’t be able to enforce it even if they wanted to as is the case with the law regarding passports and microchips we already had.

 

[honetpot]

It’s not about the £30, it’s the fact that the Government has made yet another law that they aren’t willing to enforce. They are leaving it to Councils to do, but there’s no legal obligation for councils to do anything. Since most of them are strapped for cash, they won’t be able to enforce it even if they wanted to as is the case with the law regarding passports and microchips we already had.

That's what I paid for a basic registration passport, the vet to fill out the paperwork, and the chip, 3years ago. Even if it was a £100 if you can not afford to have it done, you can not afford to own a horse.
I have mine done, as sometimes I get in animals who perhaps have not come from the best homes, when they are vet checked and vaccinated. I have always said that breeding a pony/horse should be expensive, then perhaps they would not be so disposable.

I do not think its so much about enforcing a law, but knowing where to send a bill. If you own a car, if your name is on the data base as the owner unless you can prove you sold it, or it was stolen, you are responsible. Rounding up stray horses and shooting them costs police time and money, if they are near a road that is what happens. If your horse end up in a farmers field, he will know who to contact and if its ploughed up his spring barley where to send the bill.

 

[meleeka]

I do not think its so much about enforcing a law, but knowing where to send a bill. If you own a car, if your name is on the data base as the owner unless you can prove you sold it, or it was stolen, you are responsible. Rounding up stray horses and shooting them costs police time and money, if they are near a road that is what happens. If your horse end up in a farmers field, he will know who to contact and if its ploughed up his spring barley where to send the bill.

I’ve never heard of a horse being shot for being loose, certainly not in my area. What usually happens is they put it in the nearest field or leave it to the local people to deal with.

The sort of horses that end up loose in a farmers field probably still won’t have chips, so it’s not going to solve that problem.

I wish the law was enforced. Imagine if you drove your car knowing that half the people on the road didn’t have a log book or tax and nobody ever got prosecuted? You’d probably feel like not bothering either (insurance would be a matter for your own peace of mind and my ponies all have at least third party insurance.)

My dogs are microchipped because they are more likely to be loose somewhere and chips are likely to be checked if they were.

 

[Ruby's Mum]

I don't have an issue with this as I have always chipped my animals as an extra line in security (yes, I know there are cases where chips have been dug out).

However, surely the reason that this is being introduced is purely because the powers that be think it will help in identification of the abandoned/fly grazed horses, there is absolutely no way that the type of people who dump and also fly graze horses will suddenly get them chipped because it has become "law", so yes, I agree it is just another cost for the responsible horse owners and I just can't see how they can police it. Although, I lived in Northern Ireland years ago and I did have a new horse chipped and the vet said that he wouldn't have been allowed to vaccinate/treat he horse if it hasn't been chipped (I was chipping anyway) but I don't know if this is true as he was frankly a very weird individual so I took it with a pinch of salt.

 

[Laafet]

I can't go through my returned deceased horse passports at present but found a human one, they do not write anything in it but cut off the right hand corner before it is returned, I'm almost certain returned deceased horse passports are the same but I can't confirm every horse PIO returns it if requested, I do know some do, so worth asking, some of my horse passports contained photo's so I wouldn't send them in until I was certain they would be returned

If you do request a return of a passport after registering it as dead then it does get returned with DECEASED in red stamped on every page, at least it did for the first one I did, after that I never returned about passport.

 

[Cortez]

Here (again, Ireland), stray horses that are not chipped are usually euthanized if not claimed, and if claimed they must be chipped and fines paid before they are released. I fully back this system as it not only encourages people to: a. chip & register their horses, but also: b. removes unregistered/uncared for animals from the population.

I really cannot see any argument against identifying an animal and wonder why some people are so vehemently against it in the UK. I haven't heard any reasoning that really makes sense, other than pure bloody mindedness.

 

[honetpot]

I’ve never heard of a horse being shot for being loose, certainly not in my area. What usually happens is they put it in the nearest field or leave it to the local people to deal with.

The sort of horses that end up loose in a farmers field probably still won’t have chips, so it’s not going to solve that problem.

I wish the law was enforced. Imagine if you drove your car knowing that half the people on the road didn’t have a log book or tax and nobody ever got prosecuted? You’d probably feel like not bothering either (insurance would be a matter for your own peace of mind and my ponies all have at least third party insurance.)

My dogs are microchipped because they are more likely to be loose somewhere and chips are likely to be checked if they were.

I live in an area with major A roads, plus motorway, there is a RTA just about every day in a 5 mile section, some cause 10mile tailbacks. If there are loose animals they are contained as quickly as possible, if they have owners that will catch, load and get them off fine. Many of these loose animals are semi-feral, sometimes injured and the most expedient thing is get someone to remove them quickly, and that sometimes involves a marksman or knackerman.http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/loose-horse-m25-shot-police-586059

 

[chillipup]

Here (again, Ireland), stray horses that are not chipped are usually euthanized if not claimed, and if claimed they must be chipped and fines paid before they are released. I fully back this system as it not only encourages people to: a. chip & register their horses, but also: b. removes unregistered/uncared for animals from the population.

I really cannot see any argument against identifying an animal and wonder why some people are so vehemently against it in the UK. I haven't heard any reasoning that really makes sense, other than pure bloody mindedness.

I agree Cortez but who pays for the removal/boarding/destruction of an equine that's not chipped or claimed?

 

[honetpot]

At the moment with no chips its shoved on to charities, or the local council, which means us or the police, which means us. Chipping just means there could be more chance of finding an owner to bill. Its no different from the dog chip, there will always be people who not do it.
Hopefully if the chip companies make updating the details free or a nominal fee, you can trace the last owner, and if they can not proved they have sold it and updated the details, they get the bill.

 

[chillipup]

I just wondered if it was any different in Ireland honetpot. It would be great here if our Councils were able to take up this responsibility but as others have said, they are being stripped of cash more and more. If the gov took proper responsibility they would make financial allowances to local councils for this but as they don't even seem to want to take any responsibility for the NHS crisis, I should think this matter is way, way down the list, if at all.

 

[honetpot]

I do not see why it is the council or governments responsibility to pick up the tab for essentially what is a leisure animal. When a car is done with you have to dispose of it responsibly, not being able to afford it, I can remember when you had to pay to have it taken away, is not the problem of tax payers. If my sheep die I have to pay the knacker, they are tagged so I have to record where I have sent it for disposal.

 

[meleeka]

I do not see why it is the council or governments responsibility to pick up the tab for essentially what is a leisure animal. When a car is done with you have to dispose of it responsibly, not being able to afford it, I can remember when you had to pay to have it taken away, is not the problem of tax payers. If my sheep die I have to pay the knacker, they are tagged so I have to record where I have sent it for disposal.

Presumably DEFRA would enforce the rules regarding disposal?

I think the best solution would be to make the law and have the police enforce it, check for microchips on fly grazed and loose animals and seize the ones that weren’t. If there were a penalty people would be more likely to comply. This won’t happen either of course. If you phoned the police or council here they’d just direct you to the RSPCA who are pretty rubbish with horses.

The sort of people who dump dead horses onnfootpaths can easily afford proper disposal, but they are quite happy for it to be someone else’s problem. They don’t care about the animals, nor the people who have to clear up their mess.

 

[Cecile]

Police told me years ago that unless you have a visual deterrent its a waste of time

When freezemarking came out I was first in the queue, I missed the 007 mark by a fraction, even when I spoke to a police woman who also had horses she said don't bother with hoof branding as when the police go to a field of horses they will not go around cleaning off hooves to check for branding, if its not visual forget it, scan a field of horses find something visual you are almost there

Only problem with some sort of visual thing is the weirdo's will be doing it themselves, like microchips when you go in a pet store, bring your dog in for a groom we can microchip too, bet I could microchip after a quick course as well

It costs £100 to pick up from the side of the road around this area, a bullet if needed is included in that price, the general public pay for it out of the coffers

 

[Cortez]

I agree Cortez but who pays for the removal/boarding/destruction of an equine that's not chipped or claimed?

Gumment pay for it, through the county council animal warden service. Things must be different in UK, but ultimately if it's funded through taxes then everyone pays for these services.

Cecile, it's not about deterring theft; microchips are a permanent identification that makes tracing an owner possible in the event of recovery. This can only work if people register and update so the onus is on the owners, as it should be. Not adopting something because some people will not comply is perverse; it's a good system, I'm surprised that people are so averse.

 

[Cecile]

Gumment pay for it, through the county council animal warden service. Things must be different in UK, but ultimately if it's funded through taxes then everyone pays for these services.

Cecile, it's not about deterring theft; microchips are a permanent identification that makes tracing an owner possible in the event of recovery. This can only work if people register and update so the onus is on the owners, as it should be. Not adopting something because some people will not comply is perverse; it's a good system, I'm surprised that people are so averse.

I'm not talking about theft either but you will not get the police or some council worker wandering around fields with a scanner trying to scan them for a microchip, they would get their shoes dirty, they have no training to deal with horses, with round up and scanning. What are they going to do get a search warrant to enter a field to scan for microchips, bring in Heras fencing and round them up, anything visual can be done at a gate, passing by, even a neighbour can report nothing visual on horses or even a horse rider riding by

Car tax disc or whatever it was called, it sat in the car window, police, traffic wardens or neighbours could easily see if the disc was out of date, they decided to end this disc idea so now the number of cars without tax has rocketed, so that also means no MOT or insurance, unless they do spot licence plate recognition at the side of the road or do a check via DVLA its all guess work if that car is taxed, no visual so it doesn't matter to so many people, its not just horses its how people couldn't care less