Micronised Linseed vs Raw or Boiled?

[Penny Eater]

There's evidence that micronisation (infrared cooking) changes the structure of whatever it is being cooked and can denature protein.
Are more of the beneficial properties of linseed kept by feeding it raw? Or boiling it for a short time?

 

[Tnavas]

I always feed mine raw Linseed - I grind it fresh daily in a little coffee grinder.

I don't like using anything that has been tampered with if at all possible.

 

[khalswitz]

Raw linseed contains an enzyme called linase, and hydrocyanic acid, both of which should be denatured by boiling or micronising before feeding. There haven't been cases shown of overt cyanide poisoning in horses fed at recommended rates of raw linseed, however the risk is there that you are feeding a compound that is poisonous in large doses. It is similar to soya in that it should be cooked prior to feeding.

The seeds themselves contain little, to no, preformed hydrogen cyanide but it is produced when enzymes come into contact with cyanogenic glycosides that are normally kept separated in the cell vesicles. This occurs with grinding or contact with water.

Micronising has been proven not to denature the omega oils, so you still have those present in micronised linseed, however boiling can affect the omega oils so be aware of that if that is your reason for feeding. ( http://www.scirp.org/Journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=5216 )

 

[Tnavas]

Raw linseed contains an enzyme called linase, and hydrocyanic acid, both of which should be denatured by boiling or micronising before feeding. There haven't been cases shown of overt cyanide poisoning in horses fed at recommended rates of raw linseed, however the risk is there that you are feeding a compound that is poisonous in large doses. It is similar to soya in that it should be cooked prior to feeding.

The seeds themselves contain little, to no, preformed hydrogen cyanide but it is produced when enzymes come into contact with cyanogenic glycosides that are normally kept separated in the cell vesicles. This occurs with grinding or contact with water.

Micronising has been proven not to denature the omega oils, so you still have those present in micronised linseed, however boiling can affect the omega oils so be aware of that if that is your reason for feeding. ( http://www.scirp.org/Journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=5216 )

While this information is accurate the possibility of harm only comes with feeding raw Linseed in amounts larger than 100grams in a feed.

The body is able to deal with the hydrogen cyanide in small amounts. When you consider that we too eat Raw Linseed in our diet with no harmful effects because the quantity is so small.

I used to boil Linseed and after much debate with friends on 'The Chronicals of the Horse' a few years ago I changed to feeding Linseed raw.

Also to add to the above information which I have seen quoted verbatim elsewhere - khalswitz - when quoting from a published source please credit the author!

Is that we are likely to inhale the Hydrogen Cyanide when the Linseed is cooking! Grinding while breaking down the components of the seed to set of the chemical reaction also exposes the hydrogen cyanide to the air where it dissipates.

I bought a small coffee grinder and for many years now have ground my Linseed fresh daily - fed fresh you get both a glossy coat and the Omega Oils for healthy joints.

If you still want to cook it - it comes with a warning - Don't let it boil over! It is the most evil stuff to clean up. You also lose the Omega Oils when it's been boiled.

Place the Linseed in a LARGE pot - it climbs the sides just like milk when it boils add around 3 or 4 times the volume in water along with a teaspoon of Salt - not sure of the reason for the salt - but it does increase the boiling temperature point.

Bring to the boil and then reduce the heat and simmer for 20mins. Allow to cool. Be aware that it remains hot for a very long time.

For convenience you can boil a large amount and then divide into containers and then freeze it. I use the 2 litre icecream containers and then cut into four after its defrosted.

 

[khalswitz]

While this information is accurate the possibility of harm only comes with feeding raw Linseed in amounts larger than 100grams in a feed.

The body is able to deal with the hydrogen cyanide in small amounts. When you consider that we too eat Raw Linseed in our diet with no harmful effects because the quantity is so small.

I used to boil Linseed and after much debate with friends on 'The Chronicals of the Horse' a few years ago I changed to feeding Linseed raw.

Also to add to the above information which I have seen quoted verbatim elsewhere - khalswitz - when quoting from a published source please credit the author!

Is that we are likely to inhale the Hydrogen Cyanide when the Linseed is cooking! Grinding while breaking down the components of the seed to set of the chemical reaction also exposes the hydrogen cyanide to the air where it dissipates.

I bought a small coffee grinder and for many years now have ground my Linseed fresh daily - fed fresh you get both a glossy coat and the Omega Oils for healthy joints.

If you still want to cook it - it comes with a warning - Don't let it boil over! It is the most evil stuff to clean up. You also lose the Omega Oils when it's been boiled.

Place the Linseed in a LARGE pot - it climbs the sides just like milk when it boils add around 3 or 4 times the volume in water along with a teaspoon of Salt - not sure of the reason for the salt - but it does increase the boiling temperature point.

Bring to the boil and then reduce the heat and simmer for 20mins. Allow to cool. Be aware that it remains hot for a very long time.

For convenience you can boil a large amount and then divide into containers and then freeze it. I use the 2 litre icecream containers and then cut into four after its defrosted.

That's why I said there's been no evidence of toxicity in recommended feeding levels. But it is important to know it is a risk with feeding raw linseed.

Um, which bit have I apparently quoted verbatim, just out of curiosity? Because other than having to read through my own nutrition lecture notes to remember exactly what it was that was in linseed that was poisonous and why, I haven't copied anything? I certainly looked up the paper that I had noted down on omega oils and the cooking process and linked to that...

 

[Buddy'sMum]

OP, this study found no adverse effects associated with feeding horses milled (ground) linseed at a rate of 1lb/1000lb bodyweight:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC227015

There appears to be consensus among respected equine nutritionists that feeding ground raw linseed is safe, see:
http://www.esc.rutgers.edu/ask_expert/ate_nuts.htm#flax
http://blog.smartpakequine.com/2008/09/is-flax-seed-safe-to-use-in-horses/
http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/linseed.html

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Um, which bit have I apparently quoted verbatim, just out of curiosity? Because other than having to read through my own nutrition lecture notes to remember exactly what it was that was in linseed that was poisonous and why, I haven't copied anything? I certainly looked up the paper that I had noted down on omega oils and the cooking process and linked to that...

http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/linseed.html

 

[Tnavas]

http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/linseed.html

Thank you Buddy'smum I knew I had read the same info before

 

[khalswitz]

http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/linseed.html

Wow, ok, I promise I hadn't read that (I haven't written it quite the same, you can tell I've heard it and copied it down rather than writing it out) - like I said I looked up what I had in my notes from my lectures. However the lecturer in question wasn't the author of that, so I think I've missed a reference in my note-taking, or else it's on my list of published references for that lecture, in which case I am pretty mortified as I didn't look through that to check, I'd assumed it was just something the lecturer had said... I apologise.

However that article actually backs up what you've said, rather than what I was saying.

I don't know, it was discussed in our lectures that feeding within recommended feed levels had no evidence of toxicity, but tbh it put me right off feeding raw, especially when boiling or micronising didn't affect the omega oil contact.

 

[Penny Eater]

Thanks very much for the info everyone. And thank you tnavas for the boiling instructions, I've never done it before so wasn't sure how long it needed.
I wonder why boiling affects the omegas where baking doesn't?
Tnavas did you notice a difference in your horses when you switched to feeding linseed ground?
I'm not worried about the cyanogenic compounds as I wouldn't be feeding a lot, but might be a nice treat for them in winter boiled! I'm all for going back to traditional ways of feeding and steering away from highly-processed bagged horse feeds.

 

[Tnavas]

Thanks very much for the info everyone. And thank you tnavas for the boiling instructions, I've never done it before so wasn't sure how long it needed.
I wonder why boiling affects the omegas where baking doesn't?
Tnavas did you notice a difference in your horses when you switched to feeding linseed ground?
I'm not worried about the cyanogenic compounds as I wouldn't be feeding a lot, but might be a nice treat for them in winter boiled! I'm all for going back to traditional ways of feeding and steering away from highly-processed bagged horse feeds.

Serenity got an awesome coat, shiny and dappled - was really lovely - this is also one of mine getting Linseed - many moons ago

 

[magicmoose]

I experimented with microwaving linseed last winter, instead of boiling on the stove. It worked quite well, taking between 10 and 20 minutes, depending on quantity. It was prone to boiling over and made a hell of a mess on several occasions, but was much quicker than using the stove.

Can't comment on the preservation of the health benefits, although the horses looked as good as they do on micronised. Don't most proteins change when cooked, like when your egg albumen goes white?

 

[Tnavas]

I experimented with microwaving linseed last winter, instead of boiling on the stove. It worked quite well, taking between 10 and 20 minutes, depending on quantity. It was prone to boiling over and made a hell of a mess on several occasions, but was much quicker than using the stove.

Can't comment on the preservation of the health benefits, although the horses looked as good as they do on micronised. Don't most proteins change when cooked, like when your egg albumen goes white?

If it took between 10 ans 20 mins there is really no difference and at least on the stove you can prevent it making a hell of a mess.

I know I'd opt for the stove and a little more time than the microwave and all the mess of boiled over Linseed to clear up = terrible waste of an expensive feed too when it boils over.


To be honest - grinding it is even quicker - my grinder holds ½ a cup at a time - takes 10 seconds to grind the grains to powder - do that twice and my Linseed is ready. Want to feed it hot - pour on some boiling water and stir!

 

[Penny Eater]

Wow Tnavas what a coat - stunning!

I'm a bit suspicious of microwaves, had a read of this http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/18/microwave-hazards.aspx
might be just scare-mongering and I've eaten microwave meals many times and I'm still here but I'm a million times more fussy about what my horse eats - daft really!

 

[magicmoose]

If it took between 10 ans 20 mins there is really no difference and at least on the stove you can prevent it making a hell of a mess.

I was always told that to make linseed jelly it needed to be simmered for a couple of hours on a stove and I really couldn't be bothered with that!

For me, the price difference between whole and micronised is small enough that I just buy the micronised if I can and save the hassle. If the whole linseed was significantly cheaper I would probably invest in a grinder though.

 

[Tnavas]

I was always told that to make linseed jelly it needed to be simmered for a couple of hours on a stove and I really couldn't be bothered with that!

For me, the price difference between whole and micronised is small enough that I just buy the micronised if I can and save the hassle. If the whole linseed was significantly cheaper I would probably invest in a grinder though.

I've found it jellies well enough when simmered for just 20 mins. Better than the days when we boiled it ALL day!

Unfortunately I can't get the micronised Linseed in NZ - so the next best is the coffee grinder

 

[NZJenny]

Like Tnavas said, you can't get micronized here. My horses get it whole('cos I can't be bothered grinding for four) and I eat it with yogurt and fruit.

 

[Tnavas]

Like Tnavas said, you can't get micronized here. My horses get it whole('cos I can't be bothered grinding for four) and I eat it with yogurt and fruit.

Goes through undigested if fed whole!

 

[doriangrey]

Goes through undigested if fed whole!

Apparently it doesn't, it is the husk that is expelled. I feed it raw, unground. I did boil it until I learnt that that the nutritional benefits were destroyed by boiling. That and it looks a bit like snot

 

[Penny Eater]

Mmmm snot!
I'm sure I read an old post on here (can't find it now) that someone said when they had to switch from micronised linseed to raw (or might have been boiled to raw) that they noticed a big improvement in their horse's joint mobility - anyone had similar results?

 

[Tnavas]

Mmmm snot!
I'm sure I read an old post on here (can't find it now) that someone said when they had to switch from micronised linseed to raw (or might have been boiled to raw) that they noticed a big improvement in their horse's joint mobility - anyone had similar results?

Cooking damages the Omega Oils - fed freshly crushed you get the benefit of both the oils for the coat and for the joints

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

After all that boiling and mess, my boy refused to eat it, but he licks the bowl when micronised is included

 

[doriangrey]

Mmmm snot!
I'm sure I read an old post on here (can't find it now) that someone said when they had to switch from micronised linseed to raw (or might have been boiled to raw) that they noticed a big improvement in their horse's joint mobility - anyone had similar results?

I started using it on my new pony as she became very itchy to the point of rubbing the hair off on two patches on either side of her shoulders (no parasites involved). I read that there had been some good effects with regard to feeding raw linseed in cases of sweet itch, so I started adding it to her feed. The itching cleared up and the hair grew back very quickly, may have been coincidence, but it was a happy one

 

[amandap]

There's evidence that micronisation (infrared cooking) changes the structure of whatever it is being cooked and can denature protein.
Are more of the beneficial properties of linseed kept by feeding it raw? Or boiling it for a short time?

Oh please have you got any references for this evidence?

I used to grind my own but am importing micronised atm. I have been toying with the idea of feeding whole seeds, my grinder packed up and it's laborious for 6 lol!

ps. Very interesting Doriangrey.

 

[amandap]

Goes through undigested if fed whole!

I have fed it whole a few times in the past and scrutinised poos (lol) but could find no seeds. I noticed they chew and chew when it's whole though.

Re boiling. http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/linseed.html

 

[amandap]

Sorry I see that link has already been posted.

Why boil when you can buy cold pressed linseed or micronised if you're worried about fresh? What advantage does boiling have the others don't? Just wondering if the mess is ever worth it! lol

 

[Tnavas]

Sorry I see that link has already been posted.

Why boil when you can buy cold pressed linseed or micronised if you're worried about fresh? What advantage does boiling have the others don't? Just wondering if the mess is ever worth it! lol

The boiling was the old fashioned method of preparing Linseed - at one time we used to boil it all day!

Boiling does destroy the Prussic Acid completely but also spoils the Omega Oils that are so important for improved joint health.

Cold Pressed Linseed Oil is expensive compared with buying the seeds whole and grinding them.

If you have a food processor you can also grind them in there - makes grinding for six much easier and quicker.

 

[Penny Eater]

Some studies on micronisation changing protein structure (some references to degrading antioxidants as well):
http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/81777

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...s_of_cowpea_flour/file/50463514073a983942.pdf

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf980235i

Also found this link to a site that claims heating linseed does not destroy omegas, with reference to baking, don't know if boiling would be a similar temperature?
http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=18

 

[amandap]

Some studies on micronisation changing protein structure (some references to degrading antioxidants as well):
http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/81777

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...s_of_cowpea_flour/file/50463514073a983942.pdf

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf980235i

Also found this link to a site that claims heating linseed does not destroy omegas, with reference to baking, don't know if boiling would be a similar temperature?
http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=18

Oh thanks very much. x Water has a specific boiling point 100 degrees C (99.98 C I think actually) and is a solvent. Baking, I suppose, can be all sorts of temperatures and is dry... I'll have a read of the link.

Thanks Tnavas as well. I was being a little TIC.

 

[Firewell]

I'm feeding my horse ground linseed meal. 1/2lb a day for a horse that weighs just over 1000lbs. How much do people feed their horses for just shiney coat and then weight gain? Also has anyone found their horse getting sharp on it?