Middle of December and hit with laminitis!

[jadelovescassie]

Just a little reminder, don't want anyone to fall into the trap that I did. Last night Cass was absolutely fine and then by this morning m poor mare was diagnosed with laminitis. She can barely walk so it's not a light case of it and she's probably going to be on at least 4-6 weeks box rest. It may be mid December but laminitis is still out there!

Anyone else experienced/experiencing this during the Winter months? We can't seem to work out what caused it, no change of diet, weight gain, more grazing etc! The only thing we can think of is that she kept escaping a few weeks back into fields with more grass but even then she wasn't left to graze for longer than half an hour before someone caught her and popped her back in her paddock! Crazy!

 

[StormyMoments]

frost can cause it to come on but i dont know :/ we havent had a hard enough frost to stop the grass growing so its perfectly possible hope cass feels better soon!

 

[nursecroft]

Is it the first time shes had laminitis? We had a welsh stallion that had it through the winter and my old mare when i was a child, both we think were triggered by hormones as well but they had had it before. This autumn/winter has been incrediably mild so i think there is still a lot of goodness in the grass too, if shes escaped a few times then thats probably whats tipped her.

 

[*hic*]

Without being rude she is a bit of a tubby girl in your sig - but then I made the mistake of trimming my little girl down to slightly skinny and keeping her like that and she got laminitis. She has now been diagnosed with Cushings.

How old is your pony? If she's over about 15 did the vet suggest blood tests?

 

[jadelovescassie]

Without being rude she is a bit of a tubby girl in your sig - but then I made the mistake of trimming my little girl down to slightly skinny and keeping her like that and she got laminitis. She has now been diagnosed with Cushings.

How old is your pony? If she's over about 15 did the vet suggest blood tests?

Yes she is slightly tubby there lol, but that was in the spring/summer she has dropped weight since then which is obviously a good thing. She can be quite difficult to keep the weight off unfortunately.
She is 15 but no the vet didn't suggest bloods, this is her 3rd run in with laminitis in her life now so I know she'll be more prone each time.

 

[Snoozinsusan]

I know of a pony who, in my opinion, has laminitis for the first time. I have told the owner but she refuses to accept that it could be lami, despite another of her ponies having it. We have almost fallen out over it but she won't get the vet out as it's the wrong time of year, she hasn't seen him in the typical lami stance (I have) and he doesn't have a crest (yes he has). Insists it's muscle problem.
The other pony has been lame since the snow last November (2010), he hasn't seen the vet either.
What can I do?

 

[Black_Horse_White]

^^ Tell the owner to imagine doing a hand stand while someone pulls all her fingernails out. That's the kind oc pain her horses are feeling right now. Why people won't listen and help their horses.

 

[nursecroft]

I know of a pony who, in my opinion, has laminitis for the first time. I have told the owner but she refuses to accept that it could be lami, despite another of her ponies having it. We have almost fallen out over it but she won't get the vet out as it's the wrong time of year, she hasn't seen him in the typical lami stance (I have) and he doesn't have a crest (yes he has). Insists it's muscle problem.
The other pony has been lame since the snow last November (2010), he hasn't seen the vet either.
What can I do?

It is against the law to refuse to get veterinary treatment for an animal that is suffering so I suggest contacting the RSPCA and explaining she will not seek veterinary advice.

 

[nursecroft]

Yes she is slightly tubby there lol, but that was in the spring/summer she has dropped weight since then which is obviously a good thing. She can be quite difficult to keep the weight off unfortunately.
She is 15 but no the vet didn't suggest bloods, this is her 3rd run in with laminitis in her life now so I know she'll be more prone each time.

Native ponies are such good doers, if shes had laminitis before you really will have to keep her restricted, i've known plenty of ponies go laminitic through winter. You have to be cruel to be kind and keep the weight off her.

 

[*hic*]

Yes she is slightly tubby there lol, but that was in the spring/summer she has dropped weight since then which is obviously a good thing. She can be quite difficult to keep the weight off unfortunately.
She is 15 but no the vet didn't suggest bloods, this is her 3rd run in with laminitis in her life now so I know she'll be more prone each time.

It's just a thought because I thought I'd protected mine so well by getting her weight down and keeping it down. We've been really careful not to let her get laminitis in the past and there was no reason for it this time - like yours she has been let get at too much grass but that has always caused an immediate reaction in the past. This time there was no reason other than change of season.

Just as a warning if she's looking a little ribby but still has her crest and fat pads on top of her quarters round her tail then I'd ask about testing for Cushings - caught earlier it is easier to deal with. Other warning signs would be drinking more than usual and having a wetter bed as a result.

My girl was always a nightmare to get and keep weight off so I was initially relieved when her weight dropped and didn't twig what had caused the change.

I really hope your girl does just have a touch of laminitis.

 

[sychnant]

Mine got laminitis in the middle of the snow 2 years ago, he wasn't even on grass at the time but was yarded, it was the first sign that he has Cushings.

 

[foraday]

So sorry to hear about your horse.

Laminitis can happen at any time of year now! Not just seasonal! There are about 6+ types of laminitis. Even fit horses can get concussive laminitis.

As others have already suggested get your horse blood tested. Cushings is hard to detect sometimes, but the precursor Equine Metabolic Syndrome is easy to detect. So please ask your vet for bloods to be done just even to rule them out.

This year has been a weird one with hardly any rain early in the year and now with the very mild winter and no frosts the grass is growing so is very dangerous if not managed carefully.

Just feed lots of fibre and flush out the toxins as quickly as possible and with your horse on bute you should be hopefully clear of the serious acute stage within 24-48.

Good luck

 

[Welly]

I posted the very same thing last week. My cob who has been out at grass all year got it last week.

 

[only_me]

Sorry to hear about your horse

There are many different was a horse can get laminitis; concussion, lush grass, very short grass (sugars at top) and frosty grass which is why frost is so dangerous - the sugars Rise to the top of the blade.
You can also get lami from injecting steroids into a horse with a stressed immune system already, but not by steroids alone.
A mare can also get lami post foaling!

Try to restore blood flow to foot (that's what happens in lami as well, the blood flow is interrupted causing the laminae to "die" Which then loosens the pedal bone and allow it to rotate. You could try hot the feet as far as possible with your horse

 

[essex_rider]

I have a little old pony (32) who has had laminitis on and off for the 14yrs we have had her. We are very careful with her management and she does have slight cushings which doesn't help.
She was fat when we got her but has been slim ever since and it is actually hard to keep weight on her now, so it is not just fat related.
I have a friend who works at the Royal Veterinary College and specialises in Lami - she told us that one of the biggest causes in winter is frosty grass. Our old girl does not go out on frosty grass at all now and she has been ok so far this winter (touch wood)
I can't say this is what is causing Lami in yours but it might be worth keeping them off frosty grass to see if it helps

 

[only_me]

Hot tub - sorry can't edit on phone!

 

[Twilkolock]

Some thoughts:
1. Is she a chronic laminitic (continuous/on-going bouts/long lasting) or is she suffering with acute (sudden onset/severe/first time) laminitis? If she is a chronic laminitic then very little can induce a laminitic attack. If she's a chronic laminitic then it could be something simple as a different batch of hay which has higher levels of carbohydrates/protein.

Causes of laminitis:
1. Carbohydrate overload: (i.e. sugars, starch or fructan), This could be in the form of hay, as previously stated, concentrates or grass.
2. Nitrogen compound overload: Clover is high in nitrogen and if there is a lot of it in their hay/grazing it can induce an attack. Also there are many weeds which are high in nitrogen. Does your hay/grazing have lots of weeds in it? Also, some farmers use fertilizers on their land - could she have eaten grass/hay which has been fertilized?
3. Colic: Laminitis can sometimes develop after colic.
4. Lush pastures: When releasing horses back into a pasture after being kept inside. As we've had such a mild autumn/winter there is an abundance of grass which is lush which is ripe for laminitis.
5. Frosted grass: This is all to do with the grass storing sugar rather than starch. Sugars cause an increase in insulin levels, which is known to trigger laminitis.
6. Untreated infections in the horse.
7. Insulin resistance in the horse.
8. Metabolic disorders
9. Cushing disease.
10. Use of steriods
11. Post foaling.
12. Concussion in the foot.

Either way, you should call you vet in who will most probably takes some bloods for analysis. Good luck.

 

[jadelovescassie]

2. Nitrogen compound overload: Clover is high in nitrogen and if there is a lot of it in their hay/grazing it can induce an attack.

^^ This could have had an effect. When she was escaping a lot, she was escaping into the walkways where there is always a lot of clover growing..

She's had laminitis 3 times in her lifetime and she's 15 now. When she had it about 3 years ago she wasn't as bad as this time and the symptoms faded quite quickly, though she was still on 4 weeks box rest. This attack is definitely worse than the last!

 

[indie999]

Because we had it mild up until recently I had been treating my good doer as if it was spring(he is on restricted grazing...I dont starve him). However the frost was my big worry as we have had the equivalent of spring grass with frost. I restricted him even more as soon as the frost arrived he is on probably a quarter of an acre but I do give him about 3 slices of hay on the cold nights. The odd slice in the day if its bitterly cold. He is unrugged too which makes me think he will burn off the calories too, so hence the hay.

Hope you can learn from this and get some weight off the horse I would feed hay in small holed double net etc if they are in...low sugar essential but keep the gut ticking over.

I hope you caught it in time. Is horrible to go down and find them leaning but nip in bud now. good luck

 

[jadelovescassie]

And thanks to everyone on your replies It can be difficult to know what to do about the situation when you're not sure what caused it in the first place!!

 

[muff747]

Lami at this time of year is almost always a sign of Cushings unless it's one of the other triggers (concussion/post foaling etc)
The blood test is to measure ACTH levels which rises in all horses from late summer up to end of December, thought to be triggered by length of days. PPID horses have a greater peak than normal and this can be controlled with Pergolide. Once the ACTH level is brought down to normal levels, the threat of lami is removed.
You can get loads of help and information at the Yahoo Cushings and Insulin Resistance group. They recommend soaked hay, Speedibeet soaked and rinsed out and supplementing Magnesium. Please join, they have well over 10,000 members all helping each other with guidance from experts.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
or the web site here http://www.ecirhorse.com/
Incidentally, are your fields in a valley or high on a hill or somewhere in between? I have this theory that there is less lami if your fields are on high ground.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Vet told me there were more cases in winter last year than summer cos the weather was so poor and horses were in lots and had too much hay.

I try to put mine out as much as poss in winter.

 

[Sophstar]

My little pony had a very sudden case of mild laminitis mid October and we thought it was because he had escaped and spent the night gorging on some very nice grass It wasn't, he was diagnosed with cushings 2 days later and despite it being mid December now, both him and my 'lives on fresh air' cob are still in muzzles They were out in the day in muzzles and then put in a bare paddock over night without their muzzles as I believe it's better for him to be grazing on the increasingly frosty grass throughout the night rather than get turned straight out onto it and gorge straight away. After a monstrous amount of rain and their bare paddock now resembling a flood plain, they shall now stay muzzled 24/7 on our other fields which are still amazingly green. Rather him be muzzled 24/7 and slightly grumpy than get laminitis because after the last few days of box rest he had to have, he refuses to be stabled and climbs over the door and literally goes into panic mode from the moment the door is locked behind him.

 

[Rose Folly]

Yes, previously non-laminitic cob mare went down with it on Boxing Day 2011. Vets reckoned caused by frozen grass and too-rich haylage. She was also far too plump (the over-rich haylage again). So far this winter she's been fine - fed much drier haylage (she's hay-intolerant) and such hard food as she gets is suitable for lamis, plus a daily dose still of Global Herbs' Laminitic Prone. So far, so good. Hope your horse improves soon.

 

[Ladydragon]

Incidentally, are your fields in a valley or high on a hill or somewhere in between? I have this theory that there is less lami if your fields are on high ground.

Without hijacking the thread - it's curious that you say that... Our yard's high... Turnout is pretty much the side of a mountain...

My daughter has a 17yr old pony on loan for my grand daughter so we don't have a lot of history other than "when her neck gets really cresty, she goes lame" from her owner... (Lovely lady with a toddler and new baby so no time at the moment to juggle the pony too)...

Since she's been with us she has dropped weight (I'd not seen cellulite on a pony bum before) and although her crest isn't fatty anymore it still hangs a bit due to muscle damage I think... They have to work in the field to move around up and down the hill I guess plus we brought them all in at day during the summer and out at night when it was particularly lush... But (touch wood) she didn't have a touch of lameness...

We look after her well but I've no reason at all to doubt her owner did either - she's had the pony since she was 11yrs old (the owner) so loves her to bits... I wonder if location is a contributing issue... We were dreading laminitis with her so overweight and a crest unlike anything I'd seen before...

 

[missfitz50]

Hi there, sorry to hear about your horse

A friend's horse where I keep mine went down with laminitus last December. At first they thought it was hoof bind as it was the day after her cob mare had been shod so they were horrified when the vet told them it was laminitus!

Now she is on a strict diet, wears a muzzle all year round and no turn out if the grass is frosty. Her vet told her that it could take take just 20 minutes on frosty grass with sunshine for a lami prone horse to go down with it.

On the plus side, her once fat little gypsy cob looks amazing and hasn't suffered another attack since.

 

[YasandCrystal]

My 10hh pony has it I posted a pic of him in the summer and someone said they would like to see more weight on him. I am so careful. He gets a tiny feed of lami mix and chaff with a vit & min supplement and our grazing is not at all lush even in spring. He is hobbling poor lad. No heat in his feet, neck is soft. This was him in summer - tbh not much weightier now. Someone mentionned cushings and I am now wondering or EM. My pony is 22 years old.

 

[amandap]

Op have a look here http://www.safergrass.org/articles.html and here http://www.ecirhorse.com/
Getting her tested for Cushings is definitely worth it.
Hay can be high in sugars as well as grass so hay must be soaked to reduce soluble sugars unless you have the same supply and can get it tested.
Good luck. x

YasandCrystal, in that pic your pony looks a good weight to me. Certainly not underweight. Well done. Testing is a good option. It's so frustrating when you are trying so hard. x

 

[indi4]

It seems to becoming more common to see it late autum/early winter now. I remember a couple of years ago having the vet out late autum and he was warning everyone to be careful as he was seeing a lot of laminitis cases, more than he'd seen all summer.

 

[BlackVelvet]

Please get blood tests done firstly, EMS is a really common reason for lami, and as you said you struggle to get weight off her its prob the main reason. I know this because i have a very similar looking horse to yours and he was too diagnosed with lami in June, please also get xrays so you know what your dealing with.

Frosty grass is the main cause of lami in winter also,

Hope things get better,

x